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To interject into the Walking Dead conversation. I believe the games fallowing the 1st season didn’t sell well because most people just watched their favorite streamer play it instead of doing so themselves.
Also I noticed that many of the fans of The Walking Dead and newer games never heard of or played prior Telltale games. So it would make sense that it had little impact on the overall success of the adventure genre aside from possibly watering it down to some extent.
Maybe, i can see why. Why play play a game that has very little gameplay and choices that ultimately don’t matter and funnel you down a path to the same basic endings. Not much different than watching a show so you might as well watch a streamer.
Once again I would also argue that the new fans that The Walking Dead did create, most had never heard or played any adventure games let alone telltale games before that game or since that game either. maybe they played a David cage game like heavy rain. So that does go back to my basic point that The Walking Dead did not actually leave that much of a cultural impact on the video game landscape. Especially in creating a Renaissance for adventure games. it was a one-off success story, that quickly folded under his own weight. WD1 couldn’t even sustain its own success. Doom was a milestone and a genre changer for first person shooters, to even act like The Walking Dead was anywhere near that for adventure games, I think is a huge leap.
In the Wolf Among Us play through thread, they already had one player drop out because the game is nothing but a lamer version of Dragon’s Lair. Once again the story was fine. I’m talking purely on a gameplay level.
Diego:
The guy manages to bash Gabriel Knight, all Sierra games and DOSBox (the most brilliant piece of software ever produced) all in one thread - flawless victory!
He’s not a teen, he’s just trolling.
What’s all this ganging up on a newcomer? I don’t see any trolling. His/her game preferences are different from yours. And from mine for the most part. That’s all.
Jdawg:
I Agree a troll or a 12 yr old with 0 patience or life lessons.
So it’s okay for you to bash TellTale games, not just once but again and again and again, yeah, we get it, you don’t like them. But it’s not okay when someone else bashes GK1 once. And if jsfx really is a teenager, you should be ashamed of talking to him/her like that.
Butter my buns and call me a biscuit! - Agent A
In the Wolf Among Us play through thread, they already had one player drop out because the game is nothing but a lamer version of Dragon’s Lair.
No, that player dropped out because of physical problems.
Butter my buns and call me a biscuit! - Agent A
Diego:
The guy manages to bash Gabriel Knight, all Sierra games and DOSBox (the most brilliant piece of software ever produced) all in one thread - flawless victory!
He’s not a teen, he’s just trolling.
What’s all this ganging up on a newcomer? I don’t see any trolling. His/her game preferences are different from yours. And from mine for the most part. That’s all.
Jdawg:
I Agree a troll or a 12 yr old with 0 patience or life lessons.
So it’s okay for you to bash TellTale games, not just once but again and again and again, yeah, we get it, you don’t like them. But it’s not okay when someone else bashes GK1 once. And if jsfx really is a teenager, you should be ashamed of talking to him/her like that.
Yes bc of all the reasons i stated dont be foolish too.
Also I don’t see why age has anything to do with it. If your ideas holds up great. Why does it matter if he’s 13 or 17 or 30 as Diego thinks and he is trolling. If hid ideas hold up it shouldn’t matter the age of the user. I think it would more patronizing if I treated him like a simpleton and patted him on the head and said well you tried with your horrible takes.
Once again when you were wrong I called you out and provided evidence, when Chrissie was giving every 2 man indy Adventure game, glowing reviews even though they were mediocre, I said I thought she was grading on a curve. I don’t treat anybody different on this message board, if I think you’re right, great and if I think you’re wrong I will argue my point. Hence the point of a message board to begin with
In the Wolf Among Us play through thread, they already had one player drop out because the game is nothing but a lamer version of Dragon’s Lair.
No, that player dropped out because of physical problems.
Lol first comment he said is why didn’t anybody tell him, the game had all these action sequences. I did tell him a page back about the qte fest that it is, just like I had to tell you a page back about your misinformation about The Wolf Among Us and the fake dialogue choices and use an article to back up my point lol. We get it you love a game with no gameplay, hence your avatar, it’s cool.
Ps If you want to defend this other fool and his horrible takes on classic video games by all means have at it, just so you know once again since your reading comprehension is not up to par, I already said I understand why some people like The Walking Dead and even wolf Among Us on a narrative level, hence I get why it’s popular. but this dude acts like he has no idea why the classic computer games were Classics or why sierra has a fan base at all lol, it’s not remotely the same thing as what im saying, for the 5th time.
In the Wolf Among Us play through thread, they already had one player drop out because the game is nothing but a lamer version of Dragon’s Lair.
No, rtrooney said he dropped out because of physical problems.
Lol first comment he said is why didn’t anybody tell him, the game had all these action sequences. I did tell him a page back about the qte fest that it is,
No, all you said was: “if you fail a qte you can try again”. Rtrooney obviously could press a key on a keyboard, as required both in walking and in QTEs. But his physical problems meant he could not keep tapping, which is sometimes but not always required in the QTEs.
just like I had to tell you a page back about your misinformation about The Wolf Among Us and the fake dialogue choices and use an article to back up my point lol.
No, I have not posted any misinformation. Your statement about “just slightly different dialogue from characters” is wrong. Choices often have more consequences. I’m not the only one who said so, other people confirmed it. You don’t care for games that don’t offer you enough gameplay and I have absolutely no problem with that. But using words like “false” and “fake” is not okay bc they are based on your *personal expectations* of big story branches. The same goes for the article you linked to. Seems to me like you’re disappointed when the choices don’t change the entire game universe. Example: In the TWAU intro the player can choose between 4 responses in the Bigby-Toad dialogue but Bigby always goes up to investigate the noise. Would it satisfy your longing for a different plot if Bigby instead left the building, the woodsman killed Faith, Ichabod fired Bigby and sent him to the Farm, where the player has to stop Bigby from eating other Fables?
We get it you love a game with no gameplay, hence your avatar, it’s cool.
My avatar changes all the time. Whenever I participate in a CPT I use one of the characters in the game we’re playing as my avatar. Right now it’s Bigby. In the next episode it will be another character, probably Snow or Faith. When the CPT is over my avatar will change again.
[...]since your reading comprehension is not up to par [...]
My reading comprehension is fine.
Butter my buns and call me a biscuit! - Agent A
Once again when you were wrong I called you out and provided evidence, when Chrissie was giving every 2 man indy Adventure game, glowing reviews even though they were mediocre, I said I thought she was grading on a curve…….
To be clear I have never professed to be a judge of whether a game is good or not but will praise a game that I’ve really enjoyed. Okay, you think they’re mediocre but to be quite honest jdawg, because you’re so overly critical & seem to have a strict criterion of what is good your negative opinions of a game are worth diddly squat to me (& should be to anyone else that reads them)
At least when I comment on a game, I’ve actually played it & also I’m not so arrogant to accuse someone of misinformation who has actually played a game, that I haven’t, based on 2nd hand ‘evidence’ from someone else’s perception you’ve gleaned from one article.
Also I never grade on a curve like some do here, and by that I mean some people will give a game a good review if it was made by a small Indie two-man team from Lithuania, but I judge a game the same, rather it is a small team or a major developer.
I guess you’re referring to Saint Kotar? Yes, I liked the game a lot (a lot of players did & a lot of players didn’t) but understand, my positivity about the game has got nothing to do with the origin & number of developers involved.
….. I think Saint kotar is terrible, at least from the demo, I have never played the full game, but the demo was AWFUL.
Okay, you didn’t like the demo - fair enough so it fulfilled its purpose in that you didn’t waste your money on buying the full game.
But considering that you didn’t play the full game you sure had a lot of negative things to say. At least many of the negative reviews on Steam are based on more than playing the demo.
(There are many positive reviews there also)
Also I noticed that many of the fans of The Walking Dead and newer games never heard of or played prior Telltale games. So it would make sense that it had little impact on the overall success of the adventure genre aside from possibly watering it down to some extent.
It can be debated whether that’s because of the game design, or whether that’s because of the franchises they are based on.
While there are exceptions, roughly divided the point-and-click era of Telltale was based on previous adventure games and comics, and the QTE era was based on popular TV series. So if someone hasn’t played Telltale’s Sam & Max games, we can only guess is it because
1) they might like Sam & Max, but they don’t like point and clicks
2) they might like point and clicks, but they don’t like Sam & Max
3) they have never heard about these games, because they weren’t mainstream hits.
And as Telltale’s style changed a lot between Back to the Future: The Game and Jurassic Park: The Game, those who weren’t interested in Telltale as such, but were looking for certain franchises or certain kind of games, may have indeed never heard about their point and click era. And the few original games that Telltale had, basically just Puzzle Agent series, didn’t have much of an impact with any crowd.
One more thing to consider is that games starting from The Walking Dead were released also on Android, whereas anything before that wasn’t, so with Android users there simply wasn’t even a chance for them to play anything from the older Telltale catalogue.
And obviously the media has a part in all of that too. Their later games got mostly good coverage in the game-related media. Very few magazines/websites/channels even seriously noticed Wallace & Gromit’s Grand Adventures, which is one of the best games Telltale ever did.
But whatever people think about Telltale, at least they were releasing new games more than any other adventure developer at the time. When they stopped, and then also Daedalic stopped releasing adventure games, it certainly had an effect on the whole genre.
What’s all this ganging up on a newcomer?
It is what it is. I didn’t want to come to this.
First of all, he’s not a newcomer, he’s been on the forums for 10 months. Regarding his age, the guy who is sharing random C64 and ZX Spectrum games, who is very good with sentence structure and grammar but very selective when choosing which questions he will answer (nobody here is interrogating him, both chrissie’s and my questions regarding his approx. age were in good-spirit, but he ignored it three times) leading me to believe that he’s not young and naive as he’s pretending to be.
Next, he has a history of off-topic and “contrary-for the sake of contrary” comments. There’s no other way to explain the post where he bashes VR games below that guy’s mini-review, and when asked for further explanation, he just says to the guy that he should be more appreciative of his opinion based on “years of experience”. Again, “years of experience” doesn’t sound much like a teen.
Next, he writes his favorite adventure of 2023 in a completely random manner that has nothing to do with the thread. It’s a classic trolling.
But even that is all fine. It’s who he is, or who is pretending to be. The age doesn’t matter to me, and it’s irrelevant. I talked with him as usual, congrats him on his many adventures that he plays in this thread, but “list for old people with their preferences” is so rude on many levels, regardless of his age. Again, classic trolling while offending people who created the list, and gamers who love those games, without a hint of explanation or constructive criticism. Yes, I’ve had enough.
Recently finished: Four Last Things 4/5, Edna & Harvey: The Breakout 5/5, Chains of Satinav 3,95/5, A Vampyre Story 88, Sam Peters 3/5, Broken Sword 1 4,5/5, Broken Sword 2 4,3/5, Broken Sword 3 85, Broken Sword 5 81, Gray Matter 4/5\nCurrently playing: Broken Sword 4, Keepsake (Let\‘s Play), Callahan\‘s Crosstime Saloon (post-Community Playthrough)\nLooking forward to: A Playwright’s Tale
Once again when you were wrong I called you out and provided evidence, when Chrissie was giving every 2 man indy Adventure game, glowing reviews even though they were mediocre, I said I thought she was grading on a curve…….To be clear I have never professed to be a judge of whether a game is good or not but will praise a game that I’ve really enjoyed. Okay, you think they’re mediocre but to be quite honest jdawg, because you’re so overly critical & seem to have a strict criterion of what is good your negative opinions of a game are worth diddly squat to me (& should be to anyone else that reads them)
At least when I comment on a game, I’ve actually played it & also I’m not so arrogant to accuse someone of misinformation who has actually played a game, that I haven’t, based on 2nd hand ‘evidence’ from someone else’s perception you’ve gleaned from one article.Also I never grade on a curve like some do here, and by that I mean some people will give a game a good review if it was made by a small Indie two-man team from Lithuania, but I judge a game the same, rather it is a small team or a major developer.
I guess you’re referring to Saint Kotar? Yes, I liked the game a lot (a lot of players did & a lot of players didn’t) but understand, my positivity about the game has got nothing to do with the origin & number of developers involved.
….. I think Saint kotar is terrible, at least from the demo, I have never played the full game, but the demo was AWFUL.
Okay, you didn’t like the demo - fair enough so it fulfilled its purpose in that you didn’t waste your money on buying the full game.
But considering that you didn’t play the full game you sure had a lot of negative things to say. At least many of the negative reviews on Steam are based on more than playing the demo.
(There are many positive reviews there also)
You still didn’t speak to what I said or deny it. Do you grade on a curve for small indy games, yes or no? Because if I’m wrong I will apologize to you but from the language you use in your reviews it is pretty obvious you have a softer spot for a small team, that’s all I’ve ever said about you. And I never said you’re a professional reviewer, I’m not a professional either, but in the adventure game scene every review does count because it is a small Niche audience. That’s why there has been countless threads and topics about all the recent five-star reviews by the more professional reviewers and Critics on this site and others.
To karlok, the reason I posted that topic in The Wolf Among Us from game informer is because it was a article written backing up everything I said. All you have to do is look around steam or reddit or countless other message boards and sites. One of the reasons Telltale lost a lot of “fans” is because they realized their choices were an illusion, would you like me to post a thousand more articles not written by me but other journalist and players. Y’all are trying to straw man the argument and not have a real discussion and that’s why I call it out repeatedly. Because I’m saying there is no real choice in those games and that yes grass is green… while y’all say well there is some choice that varies ever so slightly the dilagoue or what scene you visit next, so the grass is actually not green but Forrest green. No it’s green and yall are playing some weird semantics game because you like the telltale game. I’d have a lot more respect if y’all would just say I like the games and even though your criticisms are valid, i dont care, instead of trying to strawman the argument and shift facts to try and fit a narrative. So I will ask yall the question again!!! does any of your choices in The Wolf Among Us affect the outcome of the game in any truly meaningful way or is the story the story? For example in The Walking dead many different characters will die in that game no matter what, can any player choice affect those chatacters staying alive??? of course we all know the answer is NO. it is an illusion. I would also argue the game does this to intentionally fool you. the devs intentionally put a notice on top of the screen that says, so and so will remember what you said and they make it seem way more important than it is. slot machine games implore the same misleading tactic. For example there is one slot game that shows a fish about to burst out of a fish bowl, so the player thinks we are about to have a bonus round based on that visual clue, but then you realize the bonus round is really just a random chance and the size of the fish in the bowl makes no difference. in that case it’s a way for you to keep feeding the machine more money and in telltale’s case it is to make it seem like your choices have a way bigger impact and importance than they actually do.
These tactics Telltale implemented were called out by players after the first couple games were released and they then had a chance to reevaluate and fix or at least make that aspect of the games different and better. But they chose not to and double down, just pumping out generic gameplay after gameplay Loop, with varying degrees of successful storytelling sprinkled in on top. Not to mention their engine was always a stuttering mess, that is even called out by their hardcore defenders. Telltale basically became a small version of EA pumping out the same crap. no improvements in the engine and no improvements in the gameplay. The Walking Dead Season 2 and 3 might as well have been called Madden 23 and 24 because the games didnt change much. Just like players in madden or the characters in a telltale game, those changed and became new, while the gameplay loop and engine basically stayed the same.
@Doom
Fair enough. Still ...
@Karlok
I wasn’t bashing GK. I did not enjoy the game, as well as the rest of the games from Sierra and some other ‘classics’ I tried. Thanks for your support. After living three years in a society where the majority revealed that they’re idiots and assholes, I couldn’t care less about some guys getting upset because another guy doesn’t appreciate their toys (for valid reasons). Jehova.
I also wasn’t saying that Lorenzo’s Clotilde is one of my favorites. I enjoyed playing it, for what it is, running on ScummVM. The demo of the upcoming Captain Disaster and The Two Worlds of Riskara also worked fine via ScummVM, on the Mac.
Jdawg445
You still didn’t speak to what I said or deny it. Do you grade on a curve for small indy games, yes or no?
NO! I don’t grade on a curve for small indy games. What reviews? I don’t write reviews as said already I just give my impressions of a game. Please give me an example of the language that gives you the impression of my softer spot - I’m all ears. For sure I will give time to an Indie developer/small team but if I don’t like a game I tend not to mention it.
Most games are made via a labour of love so it seems mean to trash them just because I don’t like them.
And about all of your second hand info regarding a game you’ve never played may I suggest that you either join in with the playthrough or STFU!
Deletion of double post
To karlok, the reason I posted that topic in The Wolf Among Us from game informer is because it was a article written backing up everything I said.
snippety snip…
So I will ask yall the question again!!! does any of your choices in The Wolf Among Us affect the outcome of the game in any truly meaningful way or is the story the story?
And I will gave you the same answer that you totally ignored in the CPT thread: Yes.
For example in The Walking dead many different characters will die in that game no matter what, can any player choice affect those chatacters staying alive???
I haven’t played The Walking Dead and I don’t want to spoil anything for people who are playing TWAU, so I’ll use spoiler tags for an example from another game: Tex Murphy Pnadora Directive and I really don’t care if it spoils Tex for you. Tex has a fight with his girlfriend and gets drunk. The result is that he is too late for an interview with a witness and she gets killed. If Tex doesn’t get drunk etc. he is in time to save her life. Does that player’s choice qualify as meaningful in your opinion? If the answer is yes, then you should admit you’re wrong about TWAU. But I fully expect you to say no. Whatever your response, I’m done here.
Butter my buns and call me a biscuit! - Agent A
Jdawg445
You still didn’t speak to what I said or deny it. Do you grade on a curve for small indy games, yes or no?
NO! I don’t grade on a curve for small indy games. What reviews? I don’t write reviews as said already I just give my impressions of a game. Please give me an example of the language that gives you the impression of my softer spot - I’m all ears. For sure I will give time to an Indie developer/small team but if I don’t like a game I tend not to mention it.
Most games are made via a labour of love so it seems mean to trash them just because I don’t like them.And about all of your second hand info regarding a game you’ve never played may I suggest that you either join in with the playthrough or STFU!
Once again your playing semantics, but okay your “impressions” or reviews or whatever, they all mean the same thing, aka you give an opinion about a game. it was the way you wrote your “impressions.” most of them went like this; and if I have to go dig them up, I will but please don’t make me. some variation of well since it’s a small team and they don’t have big budgets the graphics/animations and the voice acting while not great were at an acceptable level. I call that grading on a curve but since you don’t want to call your “impressions” reviews either, I’m sure you have another word for it.
Lol I played the first two episodes of wolf and then quit because just like The Walking Dead, choices don’t matter. so no I will not shut the fuck up because once again this is a message board and people talk if you don’t like it block me. But by pure coincidence look what I found on a Reddit ask me anything.
Hi, former Telltale designer here, having worked on GoT 4&5, Michonne 1, and Batman S1E1 and 5 and Batman S2E2.
The way we’d design it is that certain choices are flagged, and those flags trigger certain outcomes. Sometimes they’d create a branch in the middle of the episode, or set up the start of the next, but they were only ever binaries. The “so and so will remember later” was smoke and mirrors. Often it was a way of telling the designers and writers in subsequent episodes choices that you might feel are important. Whether they took up those choices and made them into a variable was their decision or the decision of the season leads. The drive was always to set up some major binary choices, but the outcomes more often than not were decided then and there: you were never seeing a big of branched content that didn’t derive directly from a choice made in the moment. The distance between choice and outcome was always one of the more fungible elements of our overall design strategy. Preferably we wanted big binary decisions with smaller choices altering some of the particulars of each of those binary paths.
The sad fact was that no matter how much we wanted to innovate on the design of TT games, the stranglehold executive had on the process and on vetting what they called “the telltale formula,” made that impossible. And with tightening schedules, any time to maybe experiment and implement was pretty much gone, so choices and their outcomes would be budgeted out of the game’s development, because more choices and the variables they generate means more work, so more money, so more of a revenue bar they had to hit to make the game profitable. And with a steady slide in revenue generated year by year, there was no way we were ever going to make a game that was going to save the company in the long run
Shocking everything I said was true but please keep arguing semantics because that’s constructive.
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