Adventure Gamers - Forums

Blackthorne - 10 April 2013 10:28 AM

They’ve had a rough go of it.

Having $400K thrown at you after presenting only the barest shell of an idea is considered “a rough go of it” these days?  Jesus.  I’m sorry, but I just can’t muster much sympathy on this one.

You have to understand his bluster and sense of humor.  It’s really not as full of vitriol as it reads.  Take it with a wry smile and a chuckle, honestly.

Though, honestly, I don’t understand how people expressing their opinions has anything to do with their game making abilities.  I can say, honestly, that Lambonius is one of the hardest workers on our team - and he cares the most about making a quality adventure game.  I get new work from him daily - and he’s his own harshest critic.  He once revised a background eight times - starting over from scratch and a new angle on one just because he felt he could do better. He puts in long hours around an already busy schedule, and I really appreciate all his efforts.  I think, in the end, anyone who plays the game will too.  (Not just from him, but from all of my team.)  He does what he does out of pure love and respect for the adventure genre, and I just want you to know that. 

It can be, at times, difficult to read tone on the internet, but rest assured, he’s more a merry prankster than a spiteful and hateful guy.

Bt

Blackthorne - 10 April 2013 12:13 PM

You have to understand his bluster and sense of humor.  It’s really not as full of vitriol as it reads.  Take it with a wry smile and a chuckle, honestly.

Though, honestly, I don’t understand how people expressing their opinions has anything to do with their game making abilities.  I can say, honestly, that Lambonius is one of the hardest workers on our team - and he cares the most about making a quality adventure game.  I get new work from him daily - and he’s his own harshest critic.  He once revised a background eight times - starting over from scratch and a new angle on one just because he felt he could do better. He puts in long hours around an already busy schedule, and I really appreciate all his efforts.  I think, in the end, anyone who plays the game will too.  (Not just from him, but from all of my team.)  He does what he does out of pure love and respect for the adventure genre, and I just want you to know that. 

It can be, at times, difficult to read tone on the internet, but rest assured, he’s more a merry prankster than a spiteful and hateful guy.

Bt

QFT. 

I don’t really wish the Coles any ill will, quite the contrary actually—I hope the game is awesome; I’d love to play a new game from them (though I’d love a traditional QFG-style graphic adventure more.)

I just get annoyed sometimes at the cult of hero worship around some of these old names from 20 years ago.  There has been a highly dedicated adventure game community that has, by itself, developed some amazing games over the years, and really kept the genre alive for the fans—all with no budget at all and with no compensation whatsoever.  I have a lot more respect for them than I do for big names from the past who only got involved again once the opportunity to make a buck presented itself.

Granted, there are some exceptions to that rule.  Josh Mandel, for example, has been very good to the community over the years, among others.  But yeah, that’s my stance on it.

Lambonius - 10 April 2013 12:18 PM

I just get annoyed sometimes at the cult of hero worship around some of these old names from 20 years ago.  There has been a highly dedicated adventure game community that has, by itself, developed some amazing games over the years, and really kept the genre alive for the fans—all with no budget at all and with no compensation whatsoever.  I have a lot more respect for them than I do for big names from the past who only got involved again once the opportunity to make a buck presented itself.

Granted, there are some exceptions to that rule.  Josh Mandel, for example, has been very good to the community over the years, among others.  But yeah, that’s my stance on it.

I think a lot of those people would have loved to get back involved with adventure gaming whether there was money or not. I know Al Lowe would have probably loved to have worked on a new Larry game for free if it meant actually getting to prevent things like MCL and BOB. And Scott Murphy was hugely depressed about leaving the game industry. These people didn’t really leave by choice.

I also think, to some extent, the hero worship is justified in a lot of case, not so much in terms of game design, but as writers. People like Tim Schafer, Scott and Mark, Steve Purcell, Al Lowe, Ron Gilbert… these guys are genuinely great writers, and that’s one of the hardest things to find, and the most important to making an adventure game. It’s worth bending over backwards to bring great writers back to the genre.

Or at least that’s my premise. We’ll see how it goes and take inventory next year.

I know we love our heroes, but remember - they are people who make a product, not altruistic gods.

That’s when I saw my first adventure game and became very intrigued. It was a game called Softporn by Chuck Benton, which eventually became Leisure Suit Larry 1 by Al “It doesn’t matter what you say about me, just spell my name right on the check” Lowe.

Bt

Hahaha…perfect quote, Bt.

In all seriousness though, don’t you guys think people like Al Lowe, the Coles, and others have been repeatedly offered the chance to work, for free, on the various remakes, as well as other adventure game projects?

As far as I know, the only ex-Sierra developer who was more than willing to donate his time for free for the love of the fans and the genre was Josh Mandel.  And I have absolutely nothing but the utmost respect for him because of it.

But let’s be realistic here, nobody else has been willing to come forward and just work for free on these things.  And why should they?  Everyone’s got bills to pay—as adults, our time is valuable!

I don’t mind Al Lowe or his games but he’s anything but a hero. Judging by that quote he wouldn’t disagree with me.

Lambonius - 10 April 2013 02:38 PM

In all seriousness though, don’t you guys think people like Al Lowe, the Coles, and others have been repeatedly offered the chance to work, for free, on the various remakes, as well as other adventure game projects?

I don’t really know anything about the Coles, but having spoken to Al over the years, it is shameful the extent to which he was discarded for being as out of fashion as the leisure suits his character wore.

He was literally not contacted about any new Larry project, released or cancelled. They all just blew him off entirely. He tried to do that Sam Suede thing, but that fell apart. For a time he really wanted to make a new game or at least be involved, and it wasn’t about money. Al has enough money to retire comfortably and he’s past worrying about that.

As far as I know, the only ex-Sierra developer who was more than willing to donate his time for free for the love of the fans and the genre was Josh Mandel.  And I have absolutely nothing but the utmost respect for him because of it.

Working on fan projects is cute and all, but it shouldn’t be the baseline qualifier for “giving a shit about the fans and the genre.”

But let’s be realistic here, nobody else has been willing to come forward and just work for free on these things.  And why should they?  Everyone’s got bills to pay—as adults, our time is valuable!

For a lot of guys that’s true. Some (but not all) of the Sierra guys had very good deals and made a lot of money (Al, Roberta, Mark Crowe), but none of the Lucas guys really did. Those guys had to move on in order to feed themselves and their families. They would have loved to keep making adventure games, but they like eating and having a home more.

Oscar - 10 April 2013 02:40 PM

I don’t mind Al Lowe or his games but he’s anything but a hero. Judging by that quote he wouldn’t disagree with me.

That quote is from that infamous Scott Murphy [s]suicide note[/s] interview from 2006. I’m not sure what the point is.

You said

I know Al Lowe would have probably loved to have worked on a new Larry game for free if it meant actually getting to prevent things like MCL and BOB.

And that made me remember that quote - thinking that he would have worked for free on a game is purely wishful thinking.  As Lamb said “He’s an adult - his time is worth it.”

Bt

Blackthorne - 10 April 2013 03:08 PM

And that made me remember that quote - thinking that he would have worked for free on a game is purely wishful thinking.  As Lamb said “He’s an adult - his time is worth it.”

He’s an adult with enough money to live comfortably for the rest of his life. Money doesn’t matter as much to you once you reach that point in life. I’m sure it was more important to him when he was younger, but at some point his legacy became more important than that.

And my opinion is informed by a rather lengthy conversation I had with him on the subject maybe 7 or 8 years ago, not idle hero worship. He was really hurt by being excluded from Magna Cum Laude and by how bad it turned out.

Yeah, no doubt he was.  Those LSL games were terrible.  I am glad he’s back in the game and making more Larry games.  I really did love those a lot - the irreverent humor and cheese retro ambiance always had my heart.  I wanted a Leisure Suit when I was a kid!

Bt

Blackthorne - 10 April 2013 02:32 PM

I know we love our heroes, but remember - they are people who make a product, not altruistic gods.

That’s when I saw my first adventure game and became very intrigued. It was a game called Softporn by Chuck Benton, which eventually became Leisure .........

Bt

So shameful of you to reproduce that Scott Murphy quote about Al Alowe from the notorious interview in which Scott Murphy showed nothing but bitterness toward everyone (including Crowe) and everything. And you don’t even say where it’s from:  http://www.adventureclassicgaming.com/index.php/site/interviews/234/

Murphy put that bitterness behind him long ago, apparently made amends, and for you to dredge that up now as a way to criticize fans’ “hero worship” (as you call it) is disappointing. Who in the heck called anyone altruistic gods? What a ridiculous strawman.

You and Lambonius play the good/bad cop routine together on here sometimes, it seems, but the kind of b*tchy commentary about adventure game fans and other development teams, whether it is unabashed and overt like that from Lambonius or more passive aggressive like that from you, reflects so badly on your own Infamous Quests/Adventure team. If you keep this up, I doubt either of you will have to worry much about fans ever worshiping you in the way you complain about others doing to the former Sierra greats.

I don’t know either of you personally, and I love your games and wish you the best, but just wanted to let you know my thoughts.

And back to Al Lowe… no one claimed he is an altruistic god, but after replaying through the LSL games I can tell you categorically that the man was, is and ever shall be an adventure game design god, a status few ever achieve. The man deserves every devoted fan he has.

Quest1 - 10 April 2013 04:51 PM

And back to Al Lowe… no one claimed he is an altruistic god, but after replaying through the LSL games I can tell you categorically that the man was, is and ever shall be an adventure game design god, a status few ever achieve. The man deserves every devoted fan he has.

I think Al’s talent was more as a writer than as a designer, actually. Although there is some very good design in the later Larry games, I don’t think Al really got good at the design aspect until later on.

@Quest1 - I didn’t reproduce that quote to denigrate Al Lowe - merely to humanize him in regards to our conversation.  I’m very supportive of other designers and artists in the independent adventure game community - I was merely just enjoying the discussion amongst the fine people here. Honestly, that comment more proves that Al Lowe is just one tough son of a bitch in a hard business.  Sometimes you HAVE to ignore what people are saying, as long as you believe you’re doing a good job.

@Frogacuda - Yeah, Al is really funny and has a great sense of humor - he always made sure Larry games were funny, and I always loved that.  Like LSL2 has some major design problems, but I just love the game because it’s so funny - it’s a real satire on “love” culture!

Bt