Adventure Gamers - Forums

I just can’t imagine how humiliating it would be to have to come back again and ask for MORE money and admit to having screwed up. I need to find where it was suggested that the Hero U project might have to go that route. I’m sure other people here are more familiar with all the details of what has been shared so far.

Has this sort of thing happened before? There are no Kickstarter rules against it?

Okay, a few things.

First: personally, and I know I may be the exception, I wouldn’t be too fussed if a particular game or project ends up failing or not coming to completion. Kickstarter is more a tool to support a developer to create something, it is not necessarily a 100% guaranteed indication of success of a product. I really think people should be more forgiving and understanding… like when things end up taking time. It takes time to get things done. If you want something immediately, don’t support Kickstarter and purchase a finished product off the shelf.

Second, I think you’re being a little unrealistic about SpaceVenture. I get the impression these guys are working pretty hard in the background to get this game done. I saw the Alpha. And it was just that: an alpha. To me I see the signs of a genuinely quality product. I don’t think it’s fair to suggest it may get cancelled. It’s a work in progress, making genuine progress.

And lastly; I’m not really sure what the deal with Hero-U is. I will be the first to admit that I don’t know what kind of funding it takes to make a game. But Hero-U seems to have a roughly similar amount as other adventure game kickstarters, and all they seem to be doing is crying poor about how they don’t have enough to pay for anything.

I believe a lot of it may be down to the fact that other developers may have more other resources at their disposal. Project Fedora for example; only raised 200k more, and had about 250k additional money… but they also have a much huger project: real actors, FMV, fully 3D immersive world; but understandably I believe they have the resources of TruGolf to perhaps help them out a little. But Jane Jensen only got about 400k, Quest for Infamy got 60k… and that is shaping up to be a pretty professional looking game, as well as Mages Initiation on 120k. I don’t know; maybe a lot of these guys are still working full time jobs and basically doing the games for free and using the money to fund things they can’t do; and the Coles are hoping to do this as a full time thing. Either way, they seem to be having a lot more financial difficulty than any other adventure related game.

Quest1 - 10 April 2013 09:19 AM

Has this sort of thing happened before? There are no Kickstarter rules against it?

Kickstarter allows projects to run them bit by bit; like have a project raise a certain amount for one aspect of the product, and then another project to raise funds for the next bit and so on.

It could be a problem in that Hero-U advertised as raising money for the complete project. However, I don’t see how it would be a problem if they started a new project to raise more money… and made it clear that they were looking for new backers, and that existing backers would still get the same product they pledged for.

Though, I do believe in one of the Hero-U updates that they were looking for more/alternative means of funding; but I got the impression that they were looking for an additional source to supplement kickstarter funds?

Quest1 - 10 April 2013 09:19 AM

I need to find where it was suggested that the Hero U project might have to go that route. I’m sure other people here are more familiar with all the details of what has been shared so far.

This is all I could find:

We have a number of other options for raising funds later if we need them, including outside investment or personally covering the deficit. Everyone on the team (including Lori and me) is working for well below our normal rates to keep costs down. We hope that Hero-U can generate enough sales to raise everyone’s rates for our upcoming games.

Toefur - 10 April 2013 09:23 AM

Though, I do believe in one of the Hero-U updates that they were looking for more/alternative means of funding; but I got the impression that they were looking for an additional source to supplement kickstarter funds?

Ok, sounds like you know better than I. I don’t want to spread rumors.

Toefur - 10 April 2013 09:20 AM

I don’t know; maybe a lot of these guys are still working full time jobs and basically doing the games for free and using the money to fund things they can’t do; and the Coles are hoping to do this as a full time thing.

Quest1 - 10 April 2013 09:19 AM

Has this sort of thing happened before?

Sort of, but it was even shadier than that. The first KS was for a “demo, so we can get publisher funding.” Which they did, and got funding. Then they came back asked for a million dollars, which they said was “to make the game faster” but since game cost is based on man-hours, that makes no sense. My assumption is the money was for Thai ladyboy prostitutes. It was such a transparent scam, but the Pathfinder fan base is super rabid and they got a million dollars anyway.

Guns of Icarus is going to be coming back to KS soon so they can get money to do the single player mode for the game. I guess that’s a little different too, but yeah.

From the Hero-U comments section.

Creator Corey Cole on March 16

@Micartu (and anyone else concerned): The delay has cost us very little in dollars. We’re paying the contractors for specific tasks rather than having employees with monthly salaries. So mostly the delay has given us a chance to experiment with the art process and talk about the game design and story. In addition, we may do a second funding drive when we have a solid playable demo. That would allow us to add voice acting and to pay the contractors more than peanuts and bananas.

Now, I’ve not only run a Kickstarter to help raise funds to produce our game, “Quest For Infamy” - I’ve also backed a bunch.  I just wanted to help these people to try and reach their goals.  I had faith in them and their vision - and I think most will deliver.  If some don’t, that’s the nature of the beast, I think.  For me, it was more just being a positive part of an opportunity, you know?  You win some, you lose some, but at least I threw a little bit of myself and some money into the ring to try and help make someone elses project a reality.

Bt

Toefur - 10 April 2013 09:20 AM

Second, I think you’re being a little unrealistic about SpaceVenture. I get the impression these guys are working pretty hard in the background to get this game done. I saw the Alpha. And it was just that: an alpha.

Did you get to see something beyond what we all saw? Because what was shown in that video did not look like an alpha to me. It looked like a proto, not unlike the Adventure Mob proto shown in the Larry Kickstarter.

I would like to believe I’m wrong about that, and if you know more than I do about that, I will be very relieved, I just got a bad feeling based on the video.

To me I see the signs of a genuinely quality product.

Quality is not the concern. Honestly, I’d feel a lot better about it if it weren’t such high quality. My fear with that project is that they didn’t scope it right; that they got overly ambitious and went for something that is going to be too hard to complete before they run out of money.

Of course I don’t really know what their cost situation is. My impression is that they don’t have a studio, and they just have a couple contractors working part time over the internet and it’s mostly Mark and Scott. If that’s the case, then maybe they really can just keep working on it for as long as it takes until it’s done. If that’s the case, then I may be worrying for nothing.

But Hero-U seems to have a roughly similar amount as other adventure game kickstarters, and all they seem to be doing is crying poor about how they don’t have enough to pay for anything.

Other adventure Kickstarters have other money though. LSL is going great as far as the product goes, but they’re over budget, financing the game on their own money. Tex Murphy had hundreds of thousands of their own money to bring to the project. Jane Jensen has some outside investment as well.

So they not only raised a little less than those people, but they don’t have the resources to fall back on. This is also why I’m more concerned about SV than I would be otherwise, because they likewise don’t have an established studio with some money to get them through a pinch.

Looking at the Double Fine forums and other sites people seem to be whining enough as it is just at the mere mention of slight delays and such, as if that wasn’t common practice - I can only imagine the outcry and incessant complaining that’d happen if any of the more established adventure developers called it quits due to being out of funds.

I’ve donated to five Kickstarter projects so far, and each one seems to be doing fine except for Hero U. I’m pretty happy with those stats.

Creator Corey Cole on March 16
@Micartu (and anyone else concerned): The delay has cost us very little in dollars. We’re paying the contractors for specific tasks rather than having employees with monthly salaries. So mostly the delay has given us a chance to experiment with the art process and talk about the game design and story. In addition, we may do a second funding drive when we have a solid playable demo. That would allow us to add voice acting and to pay the contractors more than peanuts and bananas.

Thank you to Blackthorne for sharing this. Yes, this is what I must have seen. I remember thinking it was quite an admission. I actually thought their initial pitch for the game seemed rather… anemic and uninspiring. That main pitch video with that ugly looking gameplay video might have done more harm than good. Another funding drive doesn’t necessarily mean another Kickstarter, right? I think I read it as another Kickstarter when I first saw it.

I know Corey had also at one point mentioned getting a loan to try and help add more funds.

They’ve had a rough go of it.  I guess at this point, only time will tell what that project will end up being like.

Bt

Frogacuda - 10 April 2013 09:48 AM

Toefur - 10 April 2013 09:20 AM

Second, I think you’re being a little unrealistic about SpaceVenture. I get the impression these guys are working pretty hard in the background to get this game done. I saw the Alpha. And it was just that: an alpha.

Did you get to see something beyond what we all saw? Because what was shown in that video did not look like an alpha to me. It looked like a proto, not unlike the Adventure Mob proto shown in the Larry Kickstarter.

I would like to believe I’m wrong about that, and if you know more than I do about that, I will be very relieved, I just got a bad feeling based on the video.

I got a bad feeling too. Actually the prototype that they made during the Kickstarter looked more complete than what was shown on the video. It had a couple of screens, a little bit of gameplay, some interaction and two puzzles. And it was done in under a month. As an “almost alpha”, I was expecting to see a few rooms, a bit of gameplay, at least a couple of puzzles. But apart from one room and one corridor covering 10 seconds of the video, everything else was only concept pieces. Also, while most kickstarters have been having gameplay updates, this one has hardly had any updates concerning the gameplay. I hope it goes through well, but I’m not holding my breath.