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No new postsGame design choices you hope vanish.
I was just thinking about all the game design choices that I hope disappear in the upcoming years.
1. The illusion of dialogue choice. Don’t give me the illusion on choice, if my dialogue option really doesn’t mean anything. Hobbs barrow is definitely guilty of this. as is a lot of other games, ever since the Telltale explosion.
2. Stupid trap puzzles where you have to design some type of trap to capture an animal or a human. The new demo for that Bryan’s Adventure has one, as did Broken Sword 5. Where you had to capture a cockroach, but at least that came back later in the game for a payoff.
3. black screens to replace missing animation, or objects appearing and disappearing in characters hands, without any animation actually showing it.
4. Over wordy dialogue, a game doesn’t need two paragraphs, when two sentences can explain the same situation. Devs never need to forget that they’re making a game, not a TV show or movie.
These are some of my choices off the top of my head what are some of y’all’s?
Puzzles that rely on ridiculously specific items/actions when the setting would suggest a plethora of alternatives available.
I can accept MacGyvering a grappling hook to retrieve a rubber suit you need to escape through the sewers in a game that puts you in some sort of prison for wayward spies. Or making fire with jet fuel and a monocle, playing as an eccentric explorer, crashlanded on an uninhabited island.
But requiring, for example, water, in a realistic, modern city and only being able to get it from a fountain outside some location inaccessible until you give your neighbour a hard time about stealing your newspaper - why
A lot of modern (indie) adventure games fall for this trap: they want to offer an interesting setting where the player can visit a variety of locations, but this suggestion falls apart when you can’t use a faucet, or go by the supermarket with the decently stuffed wallet in your inventory (or any other pretty obvious solution to an arbitrary problem disguised a puzzle). The whole suggestion of the environment falls apart as you find out you’re in a showroom model prison.
Not limited to adventures, but I have very big problems with windows.
In the adventure context, you always end up solving the legendary locked door problem, when the house is full of windows that you can use to enter.
It’s even more ridiculous in FPS/TPS games, you blast a row of windows with a bazooka and nothing happens, or maybe there are some minor burn marks on the “windows”. Unless, of course, it happens to be the one window that you use to access a new area, in which case it breaks from a single bullet, or simply by running into it!
And while I’m in the middle of a good rant, in how many racing games does running over broken glass cause tires to deflate?
Not limited to adventures, but I have very big problems with windows.
In the adventure context, you always end up solving the legendary locked door problem, when the house is full of windows that you can use to enter.
It’s even more ridiculous in FPS/TPS games, you blast a row of windows with a bazooka and nothing happens, or maybe there are some minor burn marks on the “windows”. Unless, of course, it happens to be the one window that you use to access a new area, in which case it breaks from a single bullet, or simply by running into it!
And while I’m in the middle of a good rant, in how many racing games does running over broken glass cause tires to inflate?
Windows i agree with, constant popped tires no thanks lol.
1. The illusion of dialogue choice. Don’t give me the illusion on choice, if my dialogue option really doesn’t mean anything. Hobbs barrow is definitely guilty of this. as is a lot of other games, ever since the Telltale explosion.
What do you need for a dialogue to mean something? For some players it’s a different reaction from the NPC, for others it’s a change in the events in the gameworld, and for others still it’s a different ending.
I usually think and ponder about my choice for some time before choosing a dialogue option. How I want to present myself, how the other person might react. Sometimes that’s a reward in itself, depending on the game.
AKA Charo
What do you need for a dialogue to mean something? For some players it’s a different reaction from the NPC, for others it’s a change in the events in the gameworld, and for others still it’s a different ending.
In some games there is absolutely no real reaction of any kind, whatever you choose the NPC response will be the same.
Of course, in some games that pattern is played for laughs. You have a bunch of meaningful choices, but whatever you choose, the outcome will be the same. Often in these cases what the protagonist will say doesn’t even match any of the dialogue choices shown to you.
What do you need for a dialogue to mean something? For some players it’s a different reaction from the NPC, for others it’s a change in the events in the gameworld, and for others still it’s a different ending.
In some games there is absolutely no real reaction of any kind, whatever you choose the NPC response will be the same.
Of course, in some games that pattern is played for laughs. You have a bunch of meaningful choices, but whatever you choose, the outcome will be the same. Often in these cases what the protagonist will say doesn’t even match any of the dialogue choices shown to you.
Exactly what I mean if a game gives you a dialogue Choice with implied consequences, than that should affect the story. Using Telltale as example when you would make a choice it would say so and so character will remember this, and then you find out your choice really has zero impact on the story at all, which is infuriating. It should be a setup and a payoff, like in a movie if you see a character find a gun in a drawer, you can expect that character to eventually use the gun. it’s called checkoff’s principal.
Personally, I’m not a fan of 10 billion different endings. I like one ending, or at most two. I find that the more endings, the less thought seems to be put into them and the less impact they have on me. I’m not a replayer so I won’t see them anyway, or if I like the game I’ll check out a few on Youtube.
What do you need for a dialogue to mean something? For some players it’s a different reaction from the NPC, for others it’s a change in the events in the gameworld, and for others still it’s a different ending.
In some games there is absolutely no real reaction of any kind, whatever you choose the NPC response will be the same.
Of course, in some games that pattern is played for laughs. You have a bunch of meaningful choices, but whatever you choose, the outcome will be the same. Often in these cases what the protagonist will say doesn’t even match any of the dialogue choices shown to you.
What I meant was even in serious games, it’s still not meaningless to me. My own choice in itself means something even if it gets an identical reaction (which I won’t know anyway because I don’t generally replay games).
But I do understand your preference.
AKA Charo
If the game is linear, meaning you start at point A and finish at point B, then pretty much any choices you make during the game, (short of a choice that causes death,) are superfluous. All that matters is that you solve whatever puzzle lies in your path which allows you to get to the next puzzle. But I’m pretty sure that’s not the answer jdawg445 had in mind when he posed the question.
For whom the games toll,
they toll for thee.
If the game is linear, meaning you start at point A and finish at point B, then pretty much any choices you make during the game, (short of a choice that causes death,) are superfluous. All that matters is that you solve whatever puzzle lies in your path which allows you to get to the next puzzle. But I’m pretty sure that’s not the answer jdawg445 had in mind when he posed the question.
not necessarily, for example a game called Wing Commander which is not an adventure game, but it had a complete winning path and a losing path and how you did on each mission you would fluctuate between the two paths until you reached the ending. Here is a picture of it.
By the way this game came out in 1990 and yet new developers can’t come up with anything better than fake choices in 2023
True. But as you said, it was not an adventure.
To my point, my favorite game of 2022 was Syberia4.
Beautiful graphics. Great voice acting. Etc. Yet from the point Kate escaped from the salt mine to the point where she jumped on the train, there was nothing that you could do, choice-wise to alter the A-to-B scenario. So while you think you are making choices, such as having a character volunteer to infiltrate enemy forces, that really isn’t a choice that changes anything. In fact, while I think you are offered a choice, you really aren’t since the character still becomes a martyr. And Kate still gets on the train at the end of the game.
For whom the games toll,
they toll for thee.
If the game is linear, meaning you start at point A and finish at point B, then pretty much any choices you make during the game, (short of a choice that causes death,) are superfluous. All that matters is that you solve whatever puzzle lies in your path which allows you to get to the next puzzle. But I’m pretty sure that’s not the answer jdawg445 had in mind when he posed the question.
not necessarily, for example a game called Wing Commander which is not an adventure game, but it had a complete winning path and a losing path and how you did on each mission you would fluctuate between the two paths until you reached the ending. Here is a picture of it.
By the way this game came out in 1990 and yet new developers can’t come up with anything better than fake choices in 2023
How is that linear? There’s one starting point, 1, and you go through a number of different paths depending on your choices, 2-11, to arrive at two different endings, 12 or 13.
It’s the very definition of non-linear.
AKA Charo
If the game is linear, meaning you start at point A and finish at point B, then pretty much any choices you make during the game, (short of a choice that causes death,) are superfluous. All that matters is that you solve whatever puzzle lies in your path which allows you to get to the next puzzle. But I’m pretty sure that’s not the answer jdawg445 had in mind when he posed the question.
not necessarily, for example a game called Wing Commander which is not an adventure game, but it had a complete winning path and a losing path and how you did on each mission you would fluctuate between the two paths until you reached the ending. Here is a picture of it.
By the way this game came out in 1990 and yet new developers can’t come up with anything better than fake choices in 2023
How is that linear? There’s one starting point, 1, and you go through a number of different paths depending on your choices, 2-11, to arrive at two different endings, 12 or 13.
It’s the very definition of non-linear.
Its actually not based on choice but skill level, if you are a good pilot you will never see the bad path at all. But what i was getting at, is in this game “choice” or skill level is not superfluous at all as rtooney stated. if you lose a couple of missions the game does funnel you down a different path, but it does not automatically end in death. The missions on the losing path are completely different and harder, bc that means you are losing the war in the game. Also you could fail 2 or 3 missions in a row, and still claw your way back to the winning side. So my response was not about linear or non linear, but choice being superfluous.
So in adventure game terms a game could be linear but still have real choice. To use the Walking Dead game as an example, based on choices you could have different characters live or die and affect the ending to small degrees even if the overall ending is still basically the same. But what that game does is give you the illusion of choice. A game that does Choice a little better as it affects the middle of the stor, but not the ending all that much, is The Witcher 2.
True. But as you said, it was not an adventure.
To my point, my favorite game of 2022 was Syberia4.
Beautiful graphics. Great voice acting. Etc. Yet from the point Kate escaped from the salt mine to the point where she jumped on the train, there was nothing that you could do, choice-wise to alter the A-to-B scenario. So while you think you are making choices, such as having a character volunteer to infiltrate enemy forces, that really isn’t a choice that changes anything. In fact, while I think you are offered a choice, you really aren’t since the character still becomes a martyr. And Kate still gets on the train at the end of the game.
see I have not played that game yet even though I want to and yes that would ding a couple points off of my score. I have no problem with a character becoming a martyr if that’s the story they want to tell. but don’t give me the illusion of choice, that my decision can make a difference. Just tell me the story you want to tell, without giving me fake options.
A recent game that did this pretty well was Whispers of machine. depending on your choices, you get different powers to solve puzzles differently and that also affects the ending to some degree. Why not perfect by any means, it is Leaps and Bounds better than what we usually get.
If the game is linear, meaning you start at point A and finish at point B, then pretty much any choices you make during the game, (short of a choice that causes death,) are superfluous. All that matters is that you solve whatever puzzle lies in your path which allows you to get to the next puzzle. But I’m pretty sure that’s not the answer jdawg445 had in mind when he posed the question.
not necessarily, for example a game called Wing Commander which is not an adventure game, but it had a complete winning path and a losing path and how you did on each mission you would fluctuate between the two paths until you reached the ending. Here is a picture of it.
By the way this game came out in 1990 and yet new developers can’t come up with anything better than fake choices in 2023
How is that linear? There’s one starting point, 1, and you go through a number of different paths depending on your choices, 2-11, to arrive at two different endings, 12 or 13.
It’s the very definition of non-linear.
Its actually not based on choice but skill level, if you are a good pilot you will never see the bad path at all. But what i was getting at, is in this game “choice” or skill level is not superfluous at all as rtooney stated. if you lose a couple of missions the game does funnel you down a different path, but it does not automatically end in death. The missions on the losing path are completely different and harder, bc that means you are losing the war in the game. Also you could fail 2 or 3 missions in a row, and still claw your way back to the winning side. So my response was not about linear or non linear, but choice being superfluous.
So in adventure game terms a game could be linear but still have real choice. To use the Walking Dead game as an example, based on choices you could have different characters live or die and affect the ending to small degrees even if the overall ending is still basically the same. But what that game does is give you the illusion of choice. A game that does Choice a little better as it affects the middle of the stor, but not the ending all that much, is The Witcher 2.
I hear you. I feel like this is a similar structure to Pentiment, which I haven’t seen much discussion of on this forum. A lot of people complained on Steam about the lack of outcomes for different choices, and that’s true if you just talk about endings. But there was actually a lot of choice in how you spent your time and in your choice of dialogue. It changed who lived and who died, it changed relationships and shaped characters. It all funneled into a single ending (I think) but you could create a vastly different world by behaving and talking in different ways.
I get the “it doesn’t matter” line of thought, but just because there’s one ending doesn’t mean nothing matters. In real life everyone dies in the end, but that doesn’t mean what they do in life doesn’t matter.
AKA Charo
Not really a game design choice, more like a lack of one: I wish walking simulators would vanish forever, or at least be replaced with something close to immersive sims where you can touch, use and pick up everything and do whatever you want instead of running back and forth through non-interactive environments, opening hundreds of empty drawers and reading scarce notes/listening to meaningless audio logs occasionally, sometimes with a screamer or two showing up in case it’s horror-related.
Because every time I notice something described as a “3D adventure” I pray it is really an adventure game and not this sort of thing, and in 99% cases it is exactly this sort of thing. Such a waste of time and effort, so many missed opportunities. Without interaction or puzzles it’s not an adventure to me. Take shooting away from an FPS or character building from an RPG and you’ll get the same lifeless walking sim, yet for some reason it became associated with the adventure genre 
As far as adventure-related immersive sims go, the upcoming Shadows of Doubt might change the rules. It’s a randomly generated mystery story that takes place in an open-world living city where you play as a PI who could break into every house and search every inch of it. It’s another indie effort with graphics reminiscent of Minecraft, but the level of interactivity and techniques is simply mind-blowing. That’s how I want them to play.
PC means personal computer
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