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Firmament will be ever release?
Okay, I agree with that. They should not be held accountable and suing a platform like Kickstarter should not be possible, that would be ridiculous. But it would be an improvement if crowdfunding sites were obliged to set up some kind of Buyer Protection Program like ebay has.
Butter my buns and call me a biscuit! - Agent A
But it would be an improvement if crowdfunding sites were obliged to set up some kind of Buyer Protection Program like ebay has.
The problem is that you don’t buy stuff through Kickstarter.
You support projects that have some goal, but whether that goal is met or not is not the point. It’s all about giving (creative, mostly) people a chance to try to make their dreams come true.
When failure is an acceptable option, there’s very little room for protection systems.
I personally would accept failure as an end result, assuming that the creators have done everything they can to make things happen.
But when some of these projects don’t even bother post updates for years, it’s obvious that they are not even seriously attempting.
With one project, that shall remain unnamed, I asked the developer to at least post an update that certain promised things can’t be delivered. To their credit, they did that, obviously some of those promised things were never delivered.
Some projects have done the right thing themselves. It has happened to me twice that a project ended up becoming impossible to complete for different reasons, and these two projects refunded backers voluntarily.
I don’t see how they managed to do that though. Because Kickstarter doesn’t refund their cut and bank fees and all, someone refunding backers will actually end up losing more money than he ever gained, assuming all backers request refund. That raises a slightly disturbing question: if they somehow find extra money to refund everything and end up losing more money than they gained, why didn’t they spend that money on their own project to begin with?
The more I have thought about that, the more disturbing that question becomes.
I suppose it’s all about what an unnamed film director/producer once said: “never use your own money.”
The problem is that you don’t buy stuff through Kickstarter.
This can be argued to death. It’s a very fine line that Kickstarter exploits to shield itself.
It says we’re investing in a product. Not buying a product. Even though the primary reward for that investment is, in fact, receiving a copy of the product you’re investing in. How can that not be interpreted as pro-forma “buying” the product?
For whom the games toll,
they toll for thee.
It says we’re investing in a product. Not buying a product. Even though the primary reward for that investment is, in fact, receiving a copy of the product you’re investing in. How can that not be interpreted as pro-forma “buying” the product?
When it comes to games, that’s somewhat clear.
You either receive a copy of the game or you don’t.
But there are other kinds of projects on Kickstarter too.
One that I backed was about taking photos and releasing them for free on Wikimedia Commons.
At which point are you receiving any product there?
What’s the line between success and failure?
But there are other kinds of projects on Kickstarter too. One that I backed was about taking photos and releasing them for free on Wikimedia Commons.
My first question would be why you need to invest in an app that allowed you to do something for free that was already free.
At which point are you receiving any product there?
I see no product being delivered other than the ability to do something for free that was already available.
What’s the line between success and failure?
There is such a range of KS projects that it’s hard to know where to start the answer. To me the simple answer is whether you believe you received something of value in return for your investment in whatever type of project you invested in.
It just so happens that we are discussing the topic as it applies to games. As it should be since we are on the Adventure Gamers forum.
For whom the games toll,
they toll for thee.
But there are other kinds of projects on Kickstarter too. One that I backed was about taking photos and releasing them for free on Wikimedia Commons.
My first question would be why you need to invest in an app that allowed you to do something for free that was already free.
It wasn’t about supporting Wikimedia Commons as such, it was about helping someone to cover the costs of producing quality pictures and releasing them for free there.
All things considered, it definitely was one of the best projects I have ever backed.
here is such a range of KS projects that it’s hard to know where to start the answer. To me the simple answer is whether you believe you received something of value in return for your investment in whatever type of project you invested in.
It just so happens that we are discussing the topic as it applies to games. As it should be since we are on the Adventure Gamers forum.
Right.
But if we talk about Kickstarter hypothetically creating some kind of guarantee system, it should be applicable to all projects, not just adventure games.
And the worst case scenario is that the legally binding clause to deliver something would drive away projects that are not trying to make any money at any point.
I believe there have even been a few visual novels that were seeking funding, but were planned to be freeware releases. I don’t recall any such adventure games right now, but there may have been those too.
Firmament backers will, at least, be getting the game they backed. I didn’t back the game, as I don’t back virtually anything on Kickstarter anymore. So I don’t know what the rewards were at all the different levels. I hope those come through as well. I look forward to reading some reviews. Specifically I’m curious how the overall design execution compares with Obduction. That was a game I really wanted to like, but didn’t. Thought it was well done but too “MYSTian”. Which is strange because when it first came out, I thought MYST was the greatest game I played.
Strange that the trailer promo asks backers to wishlist the game on Steam. That doesn’t make sense unless the backers are getting a Steam key as the vehicle for receiving their investment reward.
For whom the games toll,
they toll for thee.
Strange that the trailer promo asks backers to wishlist the game on Steam. That doesn’t make sense unless the backers are getting a Steam key as the vehicle for receiving their investment reward.
As far I’ve understood, wishlisting increases visibility on Steam, so it’s more about marketing than anything else. That’s why many projects ask the backers to wishlist the game on Steam, even if they get the reward through other venues, it is the biggest market after all.
Wondering what the forum thinks about how the graphics texture detail will be in Firmament. It seems the 32gb of ram in the recommended specs indicates the textures may be sharp looking. The basic requirement is 16gb ram.
I bring it up because in Obduction, another major Cyan adventure a few years ago, the textures were not really all that detailed overall unless fairly far away. It gets a little blurry at normal viewing distances such as a few meters away. Some may fight me on this but others have commented they noticed it back then. I hope the same doesn’t happen in Firmament.
And in Myst URU the textures in D’ni City and some other areas were not so sharp either. At least a few mentioned that back in the day, although it has great art design, colors and story. But I haven’t tried the Nexus Mods texture packs for it yet so the problem may be solved by now.
I tend to get wordy in posts, so I could’ve just said I was wondering if anyone was concerned that Firmament’s textures may not be very sharp as was the issue in Obduction and Myst URU. But then I’d miss out on talking about all the detail.
But if we talk about Kickstarter hypothetically creating some kind of guarantee system, it should be applicable to all projects, not just adventure games.
Interesting topic. The “Ring” doorbell system started out as “Doorbot” on a crowndfunding site. Not Kickstarter. It raised over $350K US of a goal of $250K. It seems that the money raised was to provide revenue for “proof of concept.” I.e. funds for creating a prototype, sourcing manufacturing, etc. The inventor also went on the reality show “Shark Tank” and was offered $700K for a share of the company. That offer was declined, but the appearance resulted in sales of $7 Million. The company was eventually purchased by Amazon for about $1.8 Billion.
This information may not be totally accurate. It was compiled from information on the company’s website, along with information from Wikipedia and various other online sites.
What I wasn’t able to find was what the “reward” was for investing at the crowdfunding level. It couldn’t have been the product since it wasn’t yet in production. The only thing I can think of is stock in the fledgling enterprise. That would make it an investment in the truest sense of the word. But, as I said, I couldn’t find any information on that part of the transaction.
For whom the games toll,
they toll for thee.
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