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different terms, same thing?
Yes there are such games. I don’t recall any titles at the moment though. But there are some games where you need to, for instance, walk across some park, and that’s it. These are mostly some obscure freeware games, but they do exist. I think in some cases you can even walk as an animal, instead of human.
Those aren’t Walking Simulators because Simulator is a noun with a specific classification. If instead of walking those freewares featured an avian flying from point A to point B they wouldn’t become Flight Simulators; Flappy Bird isn’t a Flight Simulator. Like Chiro said, Jusant is a good example of a Climbling Simulator because just like The Climb VR its main selling point are mechanics and physics replicating closely such real-life actions. Would an IF be considered a Walking Simulator if typing W a few times concluded its narrative?
It’s a meaningless term that kickstarted as a contemptuous tag by those coming out of the 7th console generation. Merely used to playing twitch action, they got pissy when introduced for the first time to other award-winning experiences indifferent to their infatile l33t skillz.
the comprehensive list An Introduction To Japanese Adventure Games pt.1 - What They Are and The Different Types on Neogaf that I contributed.
Wot?? A beautiful free-roaming murder mystery set on ship sailing from 1920s San Fran to Yokohama, which apparently inspired Hotel Dusk, that never came overseas? Why do you torture me so?? (Wonderful work btw!)
And The Man I Love was love at first sight…
@Doom It’s a matter of personal experience ig. It was rare for me to find any puzzle that required brainpower as in deductive reasoning beyond following the clear bread crumbs. There are many similar to Clock Tower 1 like the unlocalized ムーンライトシンドローム series or 夕闇通り探検隊. Or more recent ones like 葬回診. Then there were many Myst-like Ags: Kowloon’s Gate and Keiji Eno’s localized projects like Enemy Zero come to mind. Then there were sound novels with Ag elements like 弟切草 but this extensive subgenre never became a thing in the west. There is a big variation and if you’re interested in finding out more about this world I suggest reading the comprehensive list An Introduction To Japanese Adventure Games pt.1 - What They Are and The Different Types on Neogaf that I contributed.
Thanks for the link to the article, it’s most definitely an interesting read! Yes, I researched other games by Human back in the day looking for a similar experience, but those titles you mentioned seemed like a different concept to me, pretty much “a walking simulator” we discussed before (girls “investigating” something by walking through an empty world). But I just remembered another Japanese PS adventure I discovered recently — Echo Night from the guys who made Elder Ring. Now that one was pretty to close to Clock Tower, only in the 1st person 3D view.
Doom…. ah good old shenmue, i remember the forklift mini game like it was yesterday. Dreamcast also host my personal two favorite jrpgs in skies of arcadia and grandia 2. I always did feel like turn based combat, was like small puzzle solving in role playing format. I like rpgs in general, but i do prefer turn based combat in part for my love of adventure games. You are right though jrpgs are a lot like adventure games, much more than cage’s new offerings.
Now that you mentioned it, the last puzzle in The Night of the Rabbit played pretty much like a light version of turn-based combat from a JRPG 
Also the final battle from last year’s Voodoo Detective… And probably many others. And they fit surprisingly well with the rest of the gameplay.
That’s a good point.
“I can’t solve it, so the game is flawed.” That’s not how it really is.
I remember how at one point GameSpot and other sites/mags just started trashing adventure games, including those we consider classics today, for “moon logic”, “puzzles solved by trial and error”, “tired gameplay that doesn’t progress with years” and so on. This was often done by reviewers coming from FPS and other genres with no experience in ags. And shortly after adventures were proclaimed dead. This all felt like some diversion and frustrated me a lot, because by that point adventures actually made a lot of progress, the production quality was often high, they explored 3D and other formats, tried to find balance between storytelling and puzzle solving without casualising everything, Tex Murphy introduced a cool hint system. And yet they were still getting half-page indifferent reviews with low scores, because authors couldn’t combine two items in the inventory…
And because Shenmue is an adventure game (at least according to many, some disagree), it’s kind of logical that the whole concept is associated with certain kind of adventure games.
If you consider how massive Shenmue is, and how much variation there is in the gameplay, QTE is maybe 5% or less of the whole content. Obviously if you happen to get stuck in them, they may feel worse than they actually are.
And also, those fighting scenes are not QTEs, even though some people may have those two confused.Shenmue probably couldn’t have had much more features in it due to technical limitations, it’s amazing that it accomplished what it did. I mean, there was a simulated day and night pattern with shadows that reflected that, there were entire arcade games embedded in it, all of which don’t advance the story at all, but make the game more life-like. Not to mention the shopping street which is a real world location.
I actually don’t remember Shenmue described as an adventure game up until the last 5, maybe 10 years. It has been advertised and reviewed as an open-world live simulator or something, people acknowledged its storytelling and freedom of exploration, but it wasn’t widely considered belonging to the genre. I remember researching it some 15 years ago, and it wasn’t even in the AG database. I think it was generally accepted by adventure sites when it was ported to other platforms and the talks of the third part started. By that time David Cage already released all his hits which were actually advertised as cinematic adventures starting with Fahrenheit which, I think, served as the main inspiration for the later wave of QTE games.
To be fair, I think Shenmue definitely has more adventure to it than the vast majority of games sold as interactive stories/narrative-driven adventures and such today. It’s just that everyone’s expectations were hyperinflated by the marketing campaign and at the end it felt more like a tech demo where we were shown what the artists/programmers/modellers were capable of, while the investigative gameplay was added as a nice bonus.
PC means personal computer
Doom
Shenmue was about the time developers started promising stuff that never came to be in a game way worse than before. I don’t know how much people remember but mgs3 was supposed to have way more survival elements in it where you actually had to fix broken legs and you would walk with a limp in the game. but then in the final version it mostly amounted to another menu item to scroll through. so while it was there the mechanic was severely downgraded.
Plus we cannot forget the most infamous con-man of them all Peter Douglas Molyneux , with all the stuff he promised for the fable games, but never showed up in any of those games. Or the fake Tech demo he presented as a game for The kinect called project milo. They made it seem like the game was running on an Xbox when really it was running on like three super computers.
that makes sense for adventure games to use those type of “actions” because there is a puzzle element to turn based combat in jrpgs, that’s one reason I like them so much. Using your mind to figure out what enemy is weak to what element or what Buffs or debuffs to use. Those are also my favorite jrpgs the ones that actually make a meaningful stat line for Buffs and debuffs because usually on bosses they end up not working but the games that do are awesome. One reason I like the trails of series is because you can break the game by basically getting like a 100% stat evasion on a character, by equiping them correctly, so they almost never take damage.
I don’t want to go back and forth with you again but once again you are incorrect that would be a flight simulator, in fact there is a whole game series called flight simulator where basically you fly from point A to point B. So gatekeeper is not wrong there are truly walking simulators, but the area you have correct is that some people just use that as a catch-all term, even me. The reason I think that’s fair, cuz it’s usually describing your primary function of gameplay. You are not incorrect that death stranding has a lot of other stuff built on top of it, but it is primarily a walking simulator built on how you distribute your load to carry packages, all other gameplay Loops are built on top of that primary loop.
Gran Turismo is primarily a racing simulator type game with other elements built in including light rpg elements. The problem arises when things get mis genred to me. To make up a complete random example in the racing field. let’s say I develop a racing game where you do race around the track but that’s only 20% of the game, but the other 80% is making dialogue options with your pit crew, kind of like a Choose Your Own Adventure and throw some QTE events in. Players would have every right to say I miss genred the game because it’s not a racing simulator even though there is some light racing in it. I think that’s most of our points with the adventure game genre. Does The Walking Dead have some Adventure game elements in it, most def yes. is The Walking Dead game itself an adventure game. No.
to give one more example of the differences I want to compare three games. Broken sword 3, uncharted, and the new Tintin game that came out like 2 weeks ago.
Broken Sword 3 is an adventure game, even though it does have some action elements to it but its primary gameplay Loop is puzzle solving. Yes there’s some qte in it and even stealth sections but it’s an 80/20 split in the adventure game/puzzle category. So its primary label should be Adventure game with other sub labels calling it action adventure. These distinctions should be known though because some people no matter how little there is, do not want to play any game with any kind of qte or stealth in it.
Uncharted is the exact opposite it’s 80% action, maybe 20% puzzle solving if that. it actually might be a 90/10 split depending on which game you’re talking about in the series. Nobody would call Uncharted an Adventure game they might call it a third person action adventure game.
Full disclosure I have not played the new Tintin game because I have heard it’s broken beyond repair but I have read a lot of reviews including user reviews of people that have finished the game. They point out that it’s not an adventure game because a lot of it is QTE events and stealth sections, driving and flying, with very little puzzle solving. If that turns out to be true then the new Tintin game is not an adventure game even though it’s made by Studio who mostly specializes in making adventure games. Then it falls more into the Uncharted realm which is a third person action adventure.
@Doom and @Gatekeeper
You are both debating a straw man. I didn’t equate Moon Logic with harder difficulty. The Discworlds are built on Moon Logic puzzles and they are easy if one has read the books and hard if one hasn’t. It was within the context of @Doom naming Snatcher, neither influential nor a commercial/critical success in Japan, to contrast with the top renowned western examples. Insane Troll Logic is what describes insane difficulty. And is also featured extensively in western games. It gave rise as early as I can remember to another western trope: the protagonist breaking the fourth wall to acknowledge the farcical puzzle. For me, Ags like Tokimeki Memorial, Ghost Trick, Zack & Wiki posed a higher mental challenge compared to the best from LucasArts and Sierra. Modern western ones like Obra Dinn also scratching the itch.
@Doom
The first two games are similar to Clock Tower 1 in everything excluding the P’n’C. Those controls weren’t ideal for the Super Famicom because Human Entertainment didn’t include mouse support. The third game is the spiritual successor to Clock Tower 1, sharing some of its programmers. It exchanges P’n’C for touchscreen because it’s a mobile game. You’re using “a walking simulator” to describe what you read as a lesser Clock Tower. That supports @Lamb’s crusade against that empty descriptor bordering on scoffing. There are no walking simulators to my knowledge.
@Lamb
Thanks. They are both short games but totally worth it.
@Jdawg445
Microsoft Flight Simulators range from a myriad of aerodynamic systems to take into account if the player’s goal is to simulate flying a plane. And the option for no system if the player wants to fly from a to b. Contemporary games offer a myriad of options, from arcade to simulation. Using your reasoning 99% of Ags are walking simulators because the crushing majority of their gameplay is going from a-to-b on foot.
Gatekeeper, even though Shenmue might have coined the term qte, they’ve been around for years, like I said dragons lairs gameplay is nothing but qte, you can call it anything you want, but anybody who played the game will say those are qte events and that came out in the 80s.
You are right, from the player perspective it is similar, but historically Dragon’s Lair is a different story.
The developers wanted to create a fantastic looking animated game, but they were trying to create something that was decades before its time. They were able to use what was available at the time, LaserDisc.
So making those choices and then watching a video was not so much a design choice, but something that had to be done. The graphics of the game was normal animation that was played from a disc. Those “QTE moments” were when the player made choices, and the hardware found the right part to play from a disc.
In Shenmue they had 3D characters and environments which were generated by the hardware while playing. Crude by today’s standards, but still advanced at the time that it could be done. So QTE in Shenmue wasn’t forced by technical limitations, it was as real design choice as can possibly be.
Would an IF be considered a Walking Simulator if typing W a few times concluded its narrative?
A good question.
I suppose a walking simulator has to have some graphics, but then again there are audio-only adventure games as well.
Ignoring technical definitions, wouldn’t that be the same thing as kinetic visual novels?
You can choose when to advance the game, but you can’t really interact with anything.
Wot?? A beautiful free-roaming murder mystery set on ship sailing from 1920s San Fran to Yokohama, which apparently inspired Hotel Dusk, that never came overseas? Why do you torture me so?? (Wonderful work btw!)
Yeah, there’s lots of interesting stuff that is never officially translated and made available.
Maybe we should start posting more actively about fan translation in the already existing untranslated and obscure games threads, or maybe there should be a new thread specifically for Japanese-English translations?
One of the games on that NeoGAF page was actually fan translated just a couple of weeks ago, “Dead of The Brain”. I don’t think it was discussed on any adventure game sites I’m aware of. Here’s a preview video of that fan translation for those who are interested:
I actually don’t remember Shenmue described as an adventure game up until the last 5, maybe 10 years. It has been advertised and reviewed as an open-world live simulator or something, people acknowledged its storytelling and freedom of exploration, but it wasn’t widely considered belonging to the genre. I remember researching it some 15 years ago, and it wasn’t even in the AG database. I think it was generally accepted by adventure sites when it was ported to other platforms and the talks of the third part started.
Indeed those new ports and Shenmue 3 Kickstarter might have contributed to that, but that’s not the whole story.
I know Wikipedia isn’t the most reliable source, but Shenmue article was created in 2010, and was modified back in 2011 to include (these days removed) sentence:
“The video-game is an epic adventure with elements of cinematography picture such as drama, mystery, romance, suspense and action.”
Also, before the game was even released DreamCast Magazine #3 had an article about the game, and one page was describing “Adventure Mode”, which obviously isn’t exactly the same as calling the genre adventure, but still, the word “adventure” was associated with the game.
The scan is linked from Out-of-Print Archive, a fantastic site for historical research.
They have scanned the entire magazine (and many others) for you to download.
https://www.outofprintarchive.com/magazine_catalogue_UK.html
@Doom and @Gatekeeper
You are both debating a straw man. I didn’t equate Moon Logic with harder difficulty. The Discworlds are built on Moon Logic puzzles and they are easy if one has read the books and hard if one hasn’t. It was within the context of @Doom naming Snatcher, neither influential nor a commercial/critical success in Japan, to contrast with the top renowned western examples. Insane Troll Logic is what describes insane difficulty. And is also featured extensively in western games. It gave rise as early as I can remember to another western trope: the protagonist breaking the fourth wall to acknowledge the farcical puzzle. For me, Ags like Tokimeki Memorial, Ghost Trick, Zack & Wiki posed a higher mental challenge compared to the best from LucasArts and Sierra. Modern western ones like Obra Dinn also scratching the itch.@Doom
The first two games are similar to Clock Tower 1 in everything excluding the P’n’C. Those controls weren’t ideal for the Super Famicom because Human Entertainment didn’t include mouse support. The third game is the spiritual successor to Clock Tower 1, sharing some of its programmers. It exchanges P’n’C for touchscreen because it’s a mobile game. You’re using “a walking simulator” to describe what you read as a lesser Clock Tower. That supports @Lamb’s crusade against that empty descriptor bordering on scoffing. There are no walking simulators to my knowledge.@Lamb
Thanks. They are both short games but totally worth it.@Jdawg445
Microsoft Flight Simulators range from a myriad of aerodynamic systems to take into account if the player’s goal is to simulate flying a plane. And the option for no system if the player wants to fly from a to b. Contemporary games offer a myriad of options, from arcade to simulation. Using your reasoning 99% of Ags are walking simulators because the crushing majority of their gameplay is going from a-to-b on foot.
No because you and the other guy keep leaving out the equation of puzzles and gameplay. walking is not really gameplay, it’s an input, there is a difference. I think it’s you who are trying to develop a straw man because you know what we’re saying and acting like you don’t understand it. The core gameplay Loop of flight simulator is to simulate flight while at a computer and not actually being in the sky for entertainment purposes. Wing Commander is an arcade flight simulator because it’s not purely functional on Dynamics in space. But it is still a flight simulator because that is its primary genre. What we are saying is a lot of the games you consider adventure games are not because that’s not its primary genre. 99 percent of games have walking in them as in input. they are not walking simulators because they involve gameplay other than walking as the primary function. I understand you hate the term walking simulator, you find it dismissive, which I get, but let’s not pretend you don’t understand what we’re saying here.
Traditional adventure games are not walking simulators because they have actual real gameplay and puzzles in them and not just random inputs either from walking or a qte event or randomly doing a dialogue tree. Most of us believe true interactivity and gameplay are required for a game to truly be a game, simply because if not you might as well just watch a movie or TV show. One case study to see if this will ever become the opposite for most people is what Netflix is doing, Netflix is trying to create games on their platform, there’s already a couple out there if you search, they’re not very popular, and probably never will be because those two mediums are different.
gatekeeper I hear what you’re saying about QTE but I still say the same thing if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and acts like a duck, it’s a duck even though on a technical level you are correct because of the technology limitations at the time.
Which is why I stand firm on my Adventure game stance. A lot of these new games may look like a duck but they definitely do not walk or act like a duck so they are not a duck lol.
You are both debating a straw man. I didn’t equate Moon Logic with harder difficulty. The Discworlds are built on Moon Logic puzzles and they are easy if one has read the books and hard if one hasn’t. It was within the context of @Doom naming Snatcher, neither influential nor a commercial/critical success in Japan, to contrast with the top renowned western examples. Insane Troll Logic is what describes insane difficulty. And is also featured extensively in western games. It gave rise as early as I can remember to another western trope: the protagonist breaking the fourth wall to acknowledge the farcical puzzle. For me, Ags like Tokimeki Memorial, Ghost Trick, Zack & Wiki posed a higher mental challenge compared to the best from LucasArts and Sierra. Modern western ones like Obra Dinn also scratching the itch.
You seem to be taking it personally, like we have some vendetta against you or Japanese ags. Don’t, I pointed out from the start that I have little experience with them. The reason I brought up Snatcher was because it regularly appeared in the “best adventure games of all time” lists where it was praised as one of the best Japanese games. Of course, those were English-language lists, I don’t speak Japanese and don’t know what native speakers think about it. Still the reputation of Hideo Kojima is undeniable.
The reason why I brought up moon logic and difficulty was your words:
Examples of actually using brainpower to progress were too few and far between. Pixel hunting, moon logic or obvious solutions were the norm.
I disagree with that weird generalisation of thousands and thousands of adventure games and gave you some examples of ags that I personally didn’t see as neither of those. I stay by my words that “moon logic” has been overused and turned into a cursing word for games people either fail at, or which don’t meet people’s very narrow criteria for good puzzle design which I felt was the case here. Like, a good puzzle design should involve a chain of clues to deduce as in Obra Dinn or Ace Attorney, otherwise it’s “moon logic”. But there are lots of types of challenges, there are games that rely solely on inventory puzzles and still make you feel smart for combining a comb with a squirrel and a pile of manure. Discworld is not one of them though, it’s well known for its moon logic, so no complaints there, although I know some people on this forum will strongly disagree))
And I didn’t mention the 21st century’s ags because we were talking about the basics, it’s another generation of developers and advanced technology as in the case of DS games. I also admire Ghost Trick and it turned into one of my top-something ags since I discovered it in recent years. It was more challenging than other Japanese games I’ve played, but I still wouldn’t go as far as to call it more challenging than, say, Gabriel Knight, Rama or even Monkey Island 2. I found maybe a couple of levels head-scratching, the rest weren’t all that hard. But that’s all very individual.
The first two games are similar to Clock Tower 1 in everything excluding the P’n’C. Those controls weren’t ideal for the Super Famicom because Human Entertainment didn’t include mouse support. The third game is the spiritual successor to Clock Tower 1, sharing some of its programmers. It exchanges P’n’C for touchscreen because it’s a mobile game. You’re using “a walking simulator” to describe what you read as a lesser Clock Tower. That supports @Lamb’s crusade against that empty descriptor bordering on scoffing. There are no walking simulators to my knowledge.
I specifically referred to “walking simulators” as they were discussed in this thread, no need in nitpicking. At least that’s how Moonlight Syndrome games felt to me from Youtube playthrough videos I saw, there were girls running back and forth around the town while talking and commenting on their environment, and that was basically it. If there’s more to it, than good for them. What I liked about Clock Tower was this mix of classic inventory puzzles with timed events, random encounters with the monster and multiple endings.
Indeed those new ports and Shenmue 3 Kickstarter might have contributed to that, but that’s not the whole story.
I know Wikipedia isn’t the most reliable source, but Shenmue article was created in 2010, and was modified back in 2011 to include (these days removed) sentence:
“The video-game is an epic adventure with elements of cinematography picture such as drama, mystery, romance, suspense and action.”Also, before the game was even released DreamCast Magazine #3 had an article about the game, and one page was describing “Adventure Mode”, which obviously isn’t exactly the same as calling the genre adventure, but still, the word “adventure” was associated with the game.
I love reading those old previews knowing how the games turned out at the end Here they threw together adventure, RPG and even some survival (“check out all the shops for essential supplies”). We also hardly solve any puzzles rather than searching for people (I think there was one traditional puzzle though). But it still sounds reasonable to divide the game into “adventure mode” and “action mode” as the game constantly switches between them unlike Silent Hill, for example, where you had to watch your back even while solving a puzzle.
PC means personal computer
Yeah I mean I think both terms of Moon logic and walking simulator are fair, because some games are pretty much a walking simulator and other games definitely had Moon logic. It was a way for the company to make more money to get the consumer to buy a strategy guide or call one of those God awful tip hotlines back in the day lol. a third reason might really be trying to pad the runtime because they thought their games had little replay value since it was based on puzzles, and once you solve them, why play the game again. I personally never agreed with this assessment because I have beaten Full Throttle and broken sword more times than I have any other game besides Wing Commander. Talking about full throttle specifically, I know one of the complaints about the game was it was too short, that’s one thing I actually like about the game. I can beat it in one or two sittings and it’s like revisiting an old movie I love, because I can beat it in no time. Meanwhile as much as I enjoyed my time with something like Persona 5 I’ll never play it again because that is such a Time sink investment.
Going back to Telltale for a second a lot of folks also say they’re one of the reasons the adventure game genre came back at all and i always scoff at that. while The Walking Dead Season 1 was a huge success both commercially, and critically not one other Telltale Game actually made the company any money after that, which is why they did go out of business. So while that game was popular, their formula to make the games were not all that popular. I know some will completely try to blame their laggy engine and that’s a part of it, but I think most Gamers don’t look at those games as actual real games, so after the novelty ran out they stopped buying them. I mean their comeback with the expanse doesnt look like it has sold very many copies. The reviews I have seen all say the same thing, not much interactivity and still a laggy engine.
I personally never agreed with this assessment because I have beaten Full Throttle and broken sword more times than I have any other game besides Wing Commander. Talking about full throttle specifically, I know one of the complaints about the game was it was too short, that’s one thing I actually like about the game. I can beat it in one or two sittings and it’s like revisiting an old movie I love, because I can beat it in no time. Meanwhile as much as I enjoyed my time with something like Persona 5 I’ll never play it again because that is such a Time sink investment.
BTW I never thought of Full Throttle as being too short and easy before it was brought up in later reviews and forum discussions. It was among my first adventure experiences, and it was unusual how many puzzles involved thinking “outside the box” (like using brute force when choosing “hand” or “leg” icons). But even on second playthroughs I had trouble with the last timed section, for example, or that puzzle where you had to kick the wall in the right place at the right time — this stumped for a good while. I also remember spending a lot of time getting the gasoline or finding the secret entrance to the blind bikers’ hideout and some other challenges, so it’s still a matter of how one’s logic works. But as with most Lucas adventures, there were always clues to guide you, and I refuse to call anything in this game “moon logic”.
PC means personal computer
I personally never agreed with this assessment because I have beaten Full Throttle and broken sword more times than I have any other game besides Wing Commander. Talking about full throttle specifically, I know one of the complaints about the game was it was too short, that’s one thing I actually like about the game. I can beat it in one or two sittings and it’s like revisiting an old movie I love, because I can beat it in no time. Meanwhile as much as I enjoyed my time with something like Persona 5 I’ll never play it again because that is such a Time sink investment.
BTW I never thought of Full Throttle as being too short and easy before it was brought up in later reviews and forum discussions. It was among my first adventure experiences, and it was unusual how many puzzles involved thinking “outside the box” (like using brute force when choosing “hand” or “leg” icons). But even on second playthroughs I had trouble with the last timed section, for example, or that puzzle where you had to kick the wall in the right place at the right time — this stumped for a good while. I also remember spending a lot of time getting the gasoline or finding the secret entrance to the blind bikers’ hideout and some other challenges, so it’s still a matter of how one’s logic works. But as with most Lucas adventures, there were always clues to guide you, and I refuse to call anything in this game “moon logic”.
The only puzzle that was semi moon logic was the destruction derby car part, not enough clues at least for me, solved it by pure luck.
The only puzzle that was semi moon logic was the destruction derby car part, not enough clues at least for me, solved it by pure luck.
I actually figured it out soon after I saw the ramp and how you could push Mo’s car around. I always thought this was one of the most elegantly trashy physical puzzles, another one was in Grim Fandango where you had to stop the lift in front of the hidden entrance. That one was a real challenge though, I’m not sure how I solved it back then.
PC means personal computer
The only puzzle that was semi moon logic was the destruction derby car part, not enough clues at least for me, solved it by pure luck.
I actually figured it out soon after I saw the ramp and how you could push Mo’s car around. I always thought this was one of the most elegantly trashy physical puzzles, another one was in Grim Fandango where you had to stop the lift in front of the hidden entrance. That one was a real challenge though, I’m not sure how I solved it back then.
I pushed the car off the ramp bc i was frustrated, and wanted to shut them up. Imagine my surprise lol.
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