Adventure Gamers - Forums

@Doom
It feels like misleading information without making it more obvious that the list is put together in 2011 (apart from its date) and even for 2011 it seems dated with a bias towards certain old games, specific devs. Aggies are more up-to-date, but they serve a different purpose and aren’t clearly, easy to read, presented.

@diego
I like the concept of The 7th Guest, but the original implementation is awful. The VR version works better. I was referring to Gabriel Knight, which means part one, not the anniversary edition. There exist better blueprints for a good adventure by todays standards. Anyway, a more realistic, easy to read, up-to-date top-100 looks different, different positioning, different versions, different games.

Yeah man I don’t understand your point. They’re not too many better put together games than GK1. Do I think it’s Flawless execution, no because in the anniversary edition, I actually liked some of the quality of life changes, and as I’ve always pointed out I’m not a Tim Curry fan or the way he portrayed Gabriel with his over the top accent. But the story and the way it is put together is pretty Flawless as a game, from mixing fiction and nonfiction elements to the gameplay itself.

But it is subjective as I pointed out, I would not put The Walking Dead or the Wolf Among Us anywhere near the top 50 adventure games. Because it misses half the elements of a game which is gameplay.

for the record I’m not saying some older games do not need to be revaluated because like any piece of fiction whether it be books, movies, television or games they can age like fine wine or spoiled milk.

Also as a point a reference I do think people really need to start realizing the difference between favorite and best, they are not synonyms.  for the record while I really do love Gabriel Knight I don’t know if it would make my top five adventure games because I have other ones that i like way more, but as somebody with a pair of eyes and a brain, I can realize that it’s expertly put together.  same thing with the walking dead, the first season tells a very engaging gripping story, it’s just the fact that the devs decided to abandon gameplay mid season. in fact it was actually after the first episode. Episode 1 did not have great puzzles at all, but at least had a couple of them in the episode. by episode 2 they were all gone and replaced by QuickTime events which is what they did from there on out for all their games which is why they went out of business, most Gamers actually do want some gameplay in their games.  So two things can be true, The Walking Dead tells a great story but is not a good game at all. And there is debate to be had there. But to act like all adventure games before 2000 are Antiquated and don’t hold up is a ridiculous stance to take, and it makes me really roll my eyes

Most films don’t age well. Games have an even stronger technical connection.

There could be two lists: a historical list based on the ‘influence’ of games whilst they were released and a list with recommendations consisting of games you would enjoy playing today. These lists are different. Secondly it would be nice if the games would be linked to similar games, like it’s partly done in the top-100. Of course this takes some time and effort.

diego - 19 January 2024 10:01 AM

Jdawg445 - 19 January 2024 09:46 AM

But it is subjective as I pointed out, I would not put The Walking Dead or the Wolf Among Us anywhere near the top 50 adventure games. Because it misses half the elements of a game which is gameplay.

I didn’t play The Walking Dead, and I probably never will because I also think it’s not for me, but I would be an ignorant fool not to notice what an impact it had on the adventure and video games market in whole, it’s probably the first game since 90s that was Game of the Year in many places that deal not only with adventure games but general gaming.

I would argue that it did not have much of an impact bc of what you just said. While it did win Game of the Year Awards and was a huge cultural milestone, it pewtered out just as quickly. The walking dead did not change video game landscape like The Sopranos did for television for example and we entered a new golden age with shows like True Detective, the wire, Game of Thrones Etc.. after The Walking Dead, the formula quickly lost its appeal and each game sold less copies than the one previously, which is why they went out of business. So how much impact did the game have on the gaming landscape itself, I would argue not much at all especially for the adventure game genre, the only thing it did was move us more into the walking simulator category, which if that is something you enjoy, cool, but I wouldn’t call that an impact in a positive direction. I guess the other impact it did have was a whole lot of more games using false dialogue Choices as a fake narrative driven tool.

jsfx - 19 January 2024 10:12 AM

Most films don’t age well. Games have an even stronger technical connection.

There could be two lists: a historical list based on the ‘influence’ of games whilst they were released and a list with recommendations consisting of games you would enjoy playing today. These lists are different. Secondly it would be nice if the games would be linked to similar games, like it’s partly done in the top-100. Of course this takes some time and effort.

Lol wrong, films like taxi driver, the godfather, even jaws hold up well. Jaws is actually a miracle because the shark itself does not look very good, but since it never worked, it is not in 90% of the movie and the character drama carries the movie, the dialogue is way better written than 95% of what we got today. Heck I just tried to watch the first episode of True Detective season 4 and turned it off after 30 minutes. They dialogue, characters and story were so horribly written and executed that I’m like this can’t be from the same people that made True Detective season 1. After looking into it, they were not and the new people they hired need to go back to a writing class.

diego - 19 January 2024 09:33 AM

and while there is a Top 50 material in here, I’m not sure whether some can deserve a Top 10 spot.

When I’m in the right mood, I might be willing to consider The Darkside Detective, at least in the subgenre of comedies. It is much funnier game than The Secret of Monkey Island, for instance.

Also, there are other great games like Dead Synchronicity: Tomorrow Comes Today, which should be in the Top 100, replacing something “outdated”.

Anyway, I recall when I was talking about the impossibility of breaking away from the nostalgia in some discussion, someone told me that if it’s a problem, I should run my own voting system.

I just did some tinkering in LibreOffice Calc, and tested a counting system that would effectively counteract nostalgia and favour more recent releases, while at the same time give older games a fair chance of taking all the top spots if there are enough people voting for them. The basic idea is a bit like old cars: the more years in it, the lesser value it has, but if it’s a car that everyone values, it’s still more precious than something fresh out of factory.

I might be ready to run this kind of voting system, if there’s enough interest on the forums to see if there actually is a chance for newer games to make it into Top 100. Is there any interest in trying this out?

This works only if there are enough people submitting their personal top lists for the voting. As fun as it was to compile that freeware voting last year, in the end only two people voted. So would you all actually post your lists if we open a thread like that?

So, should we try to compile a top 100 list that is biased towards newer releases, or just let it be, and consider the existing list(s) as the final word on the subject?

GateKeeper - 19 January 2024 10:33 AM

diego - 19 January 2024 09:33 AM

and while there is a Top 50 material in here, I’m not sure whether some can deserve a Top 10 spot.

When I’m in the right mood, I might be willing to consider The Darkside Detective, at least in the subgenre of comedies. It is much funnier game than The Secret of Monkey Island, for instance.

Also, there are other great games like Dead Synchronicity: Tomorrow Comes Today, which should be in the Top 100, replacing something “outdated”.

Anyway, I recall when I was talking about the impossibility of breaking away from the nostalgia in some discussion, someone told me that if it’s a problem, I should run my own voting system.

I just did some tinkering in LibreOffice Calc, and tested a counting system that would effectively counteract nostalgia and favour more recent releases, while at the same time give older games a fair chance of taking all the top spots if there are enough people voting for them. The basic idea is a bit like old cars: the more years in it, the lesser value it has, but if it’s a car that everyone values, it’s still more precious than something fresh out of factory.

I might be ready to run this kind of voting system, if there’s enough interest on the forums to see if there actually is a chance for newer games to make it into Top 100. Is there any interest in trying this out?

This works only if there are enough people submitting their personal top lists for the voting. As fun as it was to compile that freeware voting last year, in the end only two people voted. So would you all actually post your lists if we open a thread like that?

So, should we try to compile a top 100 list that is biased towards newer releases, or just let it be, and consider the existing list(s) as the final word on the subject?

Since a hundred is actually a pretty lot statistically, when talking about games, I bet there would be some change from the 80 to 100 spot range but after that, I think not much would change at all, especially as we got to the top 50 and above range. Regardless it would be a very interesting experiment to run and I like the idea of it.

It’s true. Take a look at how many films are being produced. A fraction of those were good when they were released and a fraction of those stand the test of time, for a shorter, for a longer period. Times are changing, the way people talk, what music they listen to, the way they think, the techniques and film language being used etc.

As long as I was playing, I did not enjoy the mood, the interface, the slowness, the graphics, the writing, the voice acting, the story, the characters. The game had a few nice tunes like in St. George Book Shop, Dixieland Drug Store and the Historical Voodoo Museum, the OPL2 version. It doesn’t qualify for my top-100 (best advs, today’s pov). Maybe the anniversary edition is better.

jsfx - 19 January 2024 10:40 AM

It’s true. Take a look at how many films are being produced. A fraction of those were good when they were released and a fraction of those stand the test of time, for a shorter, for a longer period. Times are changing, the way people talk, what music they listen to, the way they think, the techniques and film language being used etc.

It’s not remotely true, I mean I guess if you compare every movie ever made, sure, there have been many forgotten to the Sands of times, but there’s a reason Classics still live on and get updated, remade or reissued constantly. Take the Godfather movies they just released a series starring miles teller about how the first was made because they’re still so relevant. Top Gun 2 just made a billion dollars, and that series hasn’t had an entry in over 30 years lol.

I see you’re trying to conflate the issue with Gabriel Knight as well. you did not enjoy the game which is fine. how you enjoy something is subjective, but you also have to be objective and see why this game was a classic and why so many people still enjoy it to this day. That’s why I keep using The Walking Dead game as an example. I think it’s not a very good game at all, I do think it has a very interesting story that was told a lot better than the actual TV show lol. I don’t act like the story is trash just because I thought the gameplay was trash, they’re not the same thing. Another example would be the Dark Souls games. I do not like those games, cuz I do not like the stories being told within them, but to sit here and act like I don’t understand why they are popular and are considered some of the best in the genre, would be asinine and plainly make me look stupid and I feel like you doing the same thing with older adventure games.

also something else you said was right, but not in the way you intended it to be. There were huge box office bombs last year from every company but especially Disney, because of horrible acting, writing and direction. so while film language is changing, it is changing for the worse and box office receipts are showing that. as movies make less and less money. from the 70s on the box office was on an upward trajectory as a whole, now it’s dropping off a cliff and it was not just because of a pandemic.

It doesn’t make a lot of sense trying to argue based on exceptions whilst stats and valid reasons prove you wrong, it’s Jaws vs. ... and younger people might already tell you, whilst Jaws is good, they did enjoy The Shallows more. Films I enjoy are scattered over more than 130 years. In general, due the reasons I’ve mentioned, and the increase of productions: The earlier the fewer, whilst certain years and decades, according to your taste and because they stood out or were put down, can be stronger or weaker. If you’re an 80s guy, you probably enjoy 80s movies, same with directors.

Opinions of others are interesting, but mostly have no influence on how much I enjoy a game or a movie. I know what I like, for reasons I understand. You could appreciate production values and stuff, but in the end it’s rather meaningless, if a game or a film doesn’t click.