Adventure Gamers - Forums

nomadsoul - 12 March 2015 08:19 AM

From you other Indie post, i think you don’t dig Console or PS4, that PC game praises.
Well Ori and HM2 both are buggy on PC, reports everywhere, and that problem not exclusive to one platform, infact buggy releases and F2p are 2 major diseases carried over from PC to consoles.
PC is still lagging in terms of ignored platform with no RedDead, GTA5, Destiny,FFXV and missed platform exclusives or late ones.
PC owners are increasing back logs more than ever with Sales promotion as main draw.
Most of the Steam indie you rave about has hit shovelware state not to mention that PC most played games consist of Goat,Bread, Train, farming simulators etc .

PC gaming userbase in a nutshell, you cannot argue numbers

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=154710310&postcount=1

I mean i never heard of Robocraft , Unturned and comeon DeadIsland….
This is as close to Tablet gaming as anything.

No thanks i will stick with Sony/Console Demographic, bring on Bloodborne

To be honest, I am no console/PC fan, I go where the games are, and so far, the PS4 is still lacking in exclusive content you can’t find anywhere else. I am very frustrated because I went out and pre-ordered the console. Yes they got indies like Rogue Legacy and Hotline Miami, but those came out on the PC either at the same time or first, and I got them dirt cheap through Steam sales. I am still waiting to play a console exclusive that will blow my mind. The only one that came close for me on the PS4 was Infamous: Second Son, but alas that was inferior to the awesome Infamous 2 on PS3. I actually play the PS3 way more than I play the PS4 at this point.

As far as shovelware, it is Valve’s support of indies that made console manufacturers care about them. If it weren’t for Steam, I don’t believe we’d be witnessing this amazing indie revolution. You call it shovelware, I call it democracy, and games like Gone Home, or the Stanley Parable can only exist today because of it. And yes there is crap, but there are some amazing gems in there too that usually rise to the top. Just check out the Steam Green Light if you don’t do that already, and you’ll be surprised how good some of these games look like. I remember Microsoft used to make it really difficult for indie developers to put games on its console, and Sony took some notes from Valve’s rule book, and now Microsoft is doing the same thing. Thank the PC that you are playing Hotline Miami 2 on your PS4

As far as F2Ps, I hate those as much as you do, but there are a few amazing F2Ps out there. I’m not sure what you think of Hearthstone, but you know it’s my game of the year last year, and it is on the top 10 of many gaming websites. Let’s not forget league of legends which boasts a crazy amount of players today. I haven’t tried it yet, but my friends are crazy about it.

SoccerDude28 - 12 March 2015 12:24 PM

To be honest, I am no console/PC fan, I go where the games are, and so far, the PS4 is still lacking in exclusive content you can’t find anywhere else. I am very frustrated because I went out and pre-ordered the console. Yes they got indies like Rogue Legacy and Hotline Miami, but those came out on the PC either at the same time or first, and I got them dirt cheap through Steam sales. I am still waiting to play a console exclusive that will blow my mind. The only one that came close for me on the PS4 was Infamous: Second Son, but alas that was inferior to the awesome Infamous 2 on PS3. I actually play the PS3 way more than I play the PS4 at this point.

As far as shovelware, it is Valve’s support of indies that made console manufacturers care about them. If it weren’t for Steam, I don’t believe we’d be witnessing this amazing indie revolution. You call it shovelware, I call it democracy, and games like Gone Home, or the Stanley Parable can only exist today because of it. And yes there is crap, but there are some amazing gems in there too that usually rise to the top. Just check out the Steam Green Light if you don’t do that already, and you’ll be surprised how good some of these games look like. I remember Microsoft used to make it really difficult for indie developers to put games on its console, and Sony took some notes from Valve’s rule book, and now Microsoft is doing the same thing. Thank the PC that you are playing Hotline Miami 2 on your PS4

As far as F2Ps, I hate those as much as you do, but there are a few amazing F2Ps out there. I’m not sure what you think of Hearthstone, but you know it’s my game of the year last year, and it is on the top 10 of many gaming websites. Let’s not forget league of legends which boasts a crazy amount of players today. I haven’t tried it yet, but my friends are crazy about it.

If you are gamefan then you should have been satisfied with Bloodborne , or Order before it which looks better than all PC games to date and no PC game with latest Titan card can offer, because there aint one, not that it cannot run.
There are different value propositions and people are satisfied like myself.
Like Bloodborne is all set to be game of the generation, like DemonsSouls before it,
or Tlou or UC, which set the rule of many games on all platforms to copy and paste.
Witcher 2 director for e.g said he himself got inspirations, and tried to copy combat from souls, still people will ignore Souls as. Hey i don’t want it, but will dig and Play Witcher, doesnt mean that Souls was not creation of Sony and people dig that game.
Yes Hotline is good, but i remember the Indie scene really taking front seat in XBLA era,
not steam Booming era. IMHO, XBLA gave it life more than anything followed by tablets then Steam.
Braid, Limbo and Castelcrashers took the lead and front stage to show what Indie are capable , with games like Ori and Rapture actually looking amazing thanks to SOny/MS support and funding.
There is reason why Chinese Room gaveup on PC users and platform.
Food for thought.
Not to mention they take PR support too.

Dont forget Steam and Tablets mainstay is Cheap prices, not quality but time burning hours regardless of actual quality of content. People buy on sales, discounts, humblebundles, freebies, its the only alternative for people who cannot afford or normally use to pirate. Same reason why they are cheap enough to enjoy F2P, same reason why they would second, third and fourth guess their actions on Buying Order.
But there are gamers like Wilco, who would pay and buy straight up for any game
regardless of console. Wilco plays on all consoles and PC, and i am sure he enjoys
all form bayonetta to order to PC games. Practically he goes where games are, and there
are many like him.

Tad - 12 March 2015 11:20 AM

As for your other comment about bugs, there really isn’t that many more or less than the console versions.  The good thing about PC is also having your whole library in one place on one machine. Don’t need different hardware etc to just get game A working.

1) You can run PS3 games through 6Mb connection on PS4.
PS4 games will be in your library too.

2) Once a better card or game with high setting will come, PC is useless, you need to upgrade, thats a big con against one time investment of Console.
Not to mention, support for AMD cards have been really crappy with driver issues and whatnot.
Both REREV2 and Dreamfall intitally gave crappy Framerate on PC regardless of Card.
I am done with reading Readme file to check what card drivers i need or what to install for avoiding certain crash or DX error.

nomadsoul - 12 March 2015 01:18 PM

If you are gamefan then you should have been satisfied with Bloodborne , or Order before it which looks better than all PC games to date and no PC game with latest Titan card can offer, because there aint one, not that it cannot run.
There are different value propositions and people are satisfied like myself.
Like Bloodborne is all set to be game of the generation, like DemonsSouls before it,
or Tlou or UC, which set the rule of many games on all platforms to copy and paste.
Witcher 2 director for e.g said he himself got inspirations, and tried to copy combat from souls, still people will ignore Souls as. Hey i don’t want it, but will dig and Play Witcher, doesnt mean that Souls was not creation of Sony and people dig that game.
Yes Hotline is good, but i remember the Indie scene really taking front seat in XBLA era,
not steam Booming era. IMHO, XBLA gave it life more than anything followed by tablets then Steam.
Braid, Limbo and Castelcrashers took the lead and front stage to show what Indie are capable , with games like Ori and Rapture actually looking amazing thanks to SOny/MS support and funding.
There is reason why Chinese Room gaveup on PC users and platform.
Food for thought.
Not to mention they take PR support too.

Dont forget Steam and Tablets draw is Cheap prices. People buy on sales, discounts, humblebundles, freebies, like i got TEx again for Free, its the only alternative for people who cannot afford or normally use to pirate. Same reason why they are sccheap enought to enjoy F2P, same reason why they would second, third and fourth guess their actions on Buying Order.
But there are gamers like Me and Wilco, who would pay and buy straight up for any game
regardless of console. Wilco plays on all consoles and PC, and i am sure he enjoys
all form bayonetta to order to PC games. Practically he goes where games are, and there
are many like him.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Witness-Dev-Microsoft-Threatened-Ruin-My-Life-61068.html

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/04/12/machinarium-dev-moves-on-to-sony-after-microsoft-passes-on-publi/

http://www.gamesradar.com/team-meat-takes-issue-with-xbla-cancels-plans-for-super-meat-boy-on-wii/

Microsoft passed on Machinarium, one of the best adventure games of the last decade. This is what they had to say at the time:

“As you know, MGS [Microsoft Game Studios] has a strong history of partnering with the industry’s best talent to bring games to life that showcase the power of our platforms,” said senior global group PR manager Ryan James in an e-mailed response, “and Xbox Live Arcade is home to a wide variety of titles from a broad swath of publishers, and these games may or may not be exclusive.”
“Ultimately,” he said, “we’d love to see Machinarium come to Arcade through one of our many publishing partners—we just opted to not publish the game as a first party title from MGS.”

Microsoft wanted you to have a publisher to post your game on XBOX Live Arcade, or they themselves were the publishers. That meant in a lot of cases that indie devs would put their heart and soul into making a game and then they barely broke even because the publisher takes most of the profit. With Steam, (and now PS4 and XBOX One), you can be your own publisher. That is a huge difference and what I meant by democracy.

I know you loved the order, but it’s hard for me to pay 59 dollars when I am self employed right now, for a game that got average to below average reviews on Metacritic. If I was still employed by the man, I would probably have bought it in a heartbeat. As far as Bloodbourne, I don’t hate it or anything. I actually really like what I’ve seen, but I was really bad at Dark Souls and consistently died. I am just not good at that game. It was the same thing with Ninja Gaiden back on the XBOX, everyone raved about it but I could not get past the first boss. 

SoccerDude28 - 12 March 2015 01:33 PM

nomadsoul - 12 March 2015 01:18 PM

Not to mention they take PR support too.

“As you know, MGS [Microsoft Game Studios] has a strong history of partnering with the industry’s best talent to bring games to life that showcase the power of our platforms,” said senior global group PR manager Ryan James in an e-mailed response, “and Xbox Live Arcade is home to a wide variety of titles from a broad swath of publishers, and these games may or may not be exclusive.”
“Ultimately,” he said, “we’d love to see Machinarium come to Arcade through one of our many publishing partners—we just opted to not publish the game as a first party title from MGS.”

Microsoft wanted you to have a publisher to post your game on XBOX Live Arcade, or they themselves were the publishers. That meant in a lot of cases that indie devs would put their heart and soul into making a game and then they barely broke even because the publisher takes most of the profit. With Steam, (and now PS4 and XBOX One), you can be your own publisher. That is a huge difference and what I meant by democracy.

I know you loved the order, but it’s hard for me to pay 59 dollars when I am self employed right now, for a game that got average to below average reviews on Metacritic. If I was still employed by the man, I would probably have bought it in a heartbeat. As far as Bloodbourne, I don’t hate it or anything. I actually really like what I’ve seen, but I was really bad at Dark Souls and consistently died. I am just not good at that game. It was the same thing with Ninja Gaiden back on the XBOX, everyone raved about it but I could not get past the first boss.

There is a pattern that most of the backed up games like Journey by Sony and KQ by activision or Ori by M$ looks high in production values, with no corner cutting.
Then Sony IPs like Demons, Tlou and Journey got Gotys.
I dont recall Machinarium or super meat boy getting Gotys, maybe Best indie, but not beating AAAs.
Look at tommorow children or Rime, thats backing of big publisher resulting in game looking AAA caliber.
Sony executives are even responsible for GF remake as well as DoTT.
Valve or Steam didnt support it or technically cannot, because Steam is creation for Business, for ROI not for bleeding, Sony bleeds money by supporting unusual ideas.
There is difference between putting millions in new IPs, for both AA and Indies, than
giving platform for Indies to greenlight their creation, with revenue streams of bandwidth usage in the back.

So this plus your statement that you cannot get into Souls/Bloodborne(hard games) and cannot buy Order proves my point (that i have been making, the main debate which got bit tangential),  that Sony is not dropping the ball for what its vision is.
Polish takes time yes, DelayStation , yes, always been since PS3 days, but its not total gloom because we Have 2 games in Feb/Mar and 2 new IPs, 2 new AAA, not by MS or not by valve/Steam.
Your continuum between money and skill will be catered through PC no problem, its your
prerogative, but i was defending that PS4 delivering still to those who want what Sony
does best.

http://kotaku.com/if-you-die-in-this-game-you-can-never-play-again-ever-1690928265

“Some games have permadeath, where death causes you to lose a character forever. Upsilon Circuit, however, has perma-permadeath. If you lose, you can never play the game again.”

That is pretty scary.

SoccerDude28 - 12 March 2015 07:35 PM

http://kotaku.com/if-you-die-in-this-game-you-can-never-play-again-ever-1690928265

“Some games have permadeath, where death causes you to lose a character forever. Upsilon Circuit, however, has perma-permadeath. If you lose, you can never play the game again.”

That is pretty scary.

I feel like that’s an… interesting little gimmick but it’s not really a sensible game mechanic. Unless dying is really quite hard in it. Besides, like they commented in that article, someone is probably going to find a workaround to it in no time…

nomadsoul - 12 March 2015 08:19 AM

You are also PC fan, consult the post above.
Sir, Good luck with F2ps.

What? Well, sure - if anyone can make categorical statements about me, it’s you! Because, surely, you know me so well…

Also, I’m not a “fan” of any gaming platform. I play whatever has the most games that interests me. Recently it has been PC just because it has the most indie games that interest me. For a long time it was the XBox because it had the most games overall that I wanted to play.

nomadsoul - 12 March 2015 01:18 PM

If you are gamefan then you should have been satisfied with Bloodborne , or Order before it which looks better than all PC games to date and no PC game with latest Titan card can offer, because there aint one, not that it cannot run.

If you are a “gamefan”, you must like this or that game because it looks good? Whatever happened to personal preferences in what types of games one likes to play?

nomadsoul - 12 March 2015 01:31 PM

2) Once a better card or game with high setting will come, PC is useless, you need to upgrade, thats a big con against one time investment of Console.
Not to mention, support for AMD cards have been really crappy with driver issues and whatnot.

I’ve had the same computer for five or six years now. Still haven’t had to update anything and it’s been running all the games I’ve wanted to play just fine.

nomadsoul - 12 March 2015 01:18 PM

Dont forget Steam and Tablets mainstay is Cheap prices, not quality but time burning hours regardless of actual quality of content. People buy on sales, discounts, humblebundles, freebies, its the only alternative for people who cannot afford or normally use to pirate. Same reason why they are cheap enough to enjoy F2P, same reason why they would second, third and fourth guess their actions on Buying Order.
But there are gamers like Wilco, who would pay and buy straight up for any game
regardless of console. Wilco plays on all consoles and PC, and i am sure he enjoys
all form bayonetta to order to PC games. Practically he goes where games are, and there
are many like him.

Just… What? I mean, okay, all of that aside - why can’t one make the judgement of what console to get based on what games are out there to play on it? That maybe one doesn’t want to make an investment of 400 € just to play one game that one wants to play? I have a PC already, I can afford one of the new consoles, just as soon as there’s a game I want to play enough on it. When that day comes, I’ll start buying more games on it too. But until then, since everything I’ve wanted to play has been coming out on PC as well, why wouldn’t I buy them on the PC?

And yeah, most of the games coming out in recent years that I’ve wanted to play have been more or less indies, including all the adventure games. Try playing them on the consoles.

Besides, I don’t understand why you are so aggressive against PC gaming? Weren’t you just saying how people should play on any platform that has the best games? So, why are constantly saying that everyone should play on a PS4?

UPtimist - 13 March 2015 03:42 AM

And yeah, mostof the games coming out in recent years that I’ve wanted to play have been more or less indies, including all the adventure games. Try playing them on the consoles.

Besides, I don’t understand why you are so aggressive against PC gaming? Weren’t you just saying how people should play on any platform that has the best games?

Only i am not, you probably haven’t read my post completely,

There are different value propositions and people are satisfied like myself.

Different value propositions for different hardware.
He was dissing PS4 so i said, Sony is delivering to segment who know what to expect from Sony.

I made general comment on PC userbase, stats of which i provided.
You might be .0001% of total PC population, that was not my point.

You dont matter since i wasnt talking about one guy.

Run has many connotations in PC gaming, question is How good?? there is reason the options menu is full of settings unlike Console versions.
I can run EthanCarter on my laptop, but i wont call it Run.
I am sure your 6 yr old rig cannot run, Shadow of Mordor or upcoming Witcher 3 at
High setting with all settings high, forget looking as good as best of titan card on same setting. Even on High , different cards show different benchmarks.

Again if you are not victim of crashes or bugs, or poor optimization of specific card doesn’t mean problem isn’t there. Its like saying 30% were affected by RedRing of Death on xbox360, i wasnt affected, so 360 is good hardware.

So, why are constantly saying that everyone should play on a PS4

That bolded line i never said, you made it up completely, let alone constantly.

Try playing Indies on consoles??
No i will play those on my laptop and Iphone, because majority Indies are not worthy of High powered rig , or 400$ console.
Graphics are huge part of investment, and better PC looking ones like Witness or Ethan Carter will find its way on PS4.

I got Transistor, Apotheon, Swapper, Steamworld Dig, Ponchos, and whatnot for Free on PSN, and they all bored me out, because Indie has hit shovelware homogenous state (again not all, generally majority of them), not to mention repetitive pixel art.

nomadsoul - 13 March 2015 06:48 AM

Only i am not, you probably haven’t read my post completely

Well, I did read that PC is buggy, it requires constant updating, it’s expensive, the games are rubbish, the players are pirates or cheapskates who don’t even want to play the games they buy, etc.  Oh, and - of course - all that about F2P games that they are the bane of the gaming industry and it’s all because of PC and that’s all you’re going to get on PC (as in: “Sir, Good luck with F2ps.” - well, for your information I’ve yet to play one f2p game aside from digital card games. And frankly, they’re great as a f2p model.)
What good did I see you say about PC? Well, that it’s good to play games on a laptop or a handheld device that aren’t worth playing on a console.

Sure, F2Ps in general are pretty awful, but that they’re a result of the PC? Not true in many ways. It’s a result of the commercialization of the gaming industry and the fact that the CEOs who are only interested in making as much money as possible (since that’s the nature of an industrial market) notice the fact that they tend to make more money than one time purchase games. Piracy has some part in it (of course, that’s not a PC-only phenomenon) but so do mobile games and many other matters.

He was dissing PS4 so i said, Sony is delivering to segment who know what to expect from Sony.

I haven’t seen him diss PS4. I’ve only seen him say that the games coming out on Playstation don’t interest him.

I made general comment on PC userbase, stats of which i provided.
You might be .0001% of total PC population, that was not my point.

It’s still a massive generalization. Sure, these may be the most purchased games, but it’s still the tip of the iceberg. Fact is that PC has the vast majority of the same games as the consoles, and until there are more games that interest me (as a general consumer) on the consoles, then it does not make financial sense for me to purchase the console.

Of course, once there are at least a few multiplatform games on a specific console that I wish to play and an interesting-enough exclusive, I will buy a console. But so far, that is not the case. In fact, on neither X1 or PS4 has there so far been a single game that I would really want to play. That is all I have said.

You dont matter since i wasnt talking about one guy.

I don’t matter? Geeze, thanks (joking…)

Run has many connotations in PC gaming, question is How good?? there is reason the options menu is full of settings unlike Console versions.
I can run EthanCarter on my laptop, but i wont call it Run.
I am sure your 6 yr old rig cannot run, Shadow of Mordor or upcoming Witcher 3 at
High setting with all settings high, forget looking as good as best of titan card on same setting. Even on High , different cards show different benchmarks.

Again if you are not victim of crashes or bugs, or poor optimization of specific card doesn’t mean problem isn’t there. Its like saying 30% were affected by RedRing of Death on xbox360, i wasnt affected, so 360 is good hardware.

First of all, you just said that once new hardware comes out, your PC is obsolete:

2) Once a better card or game with high setting will come, PC is useless, you need to upgrade, thats a big con against one time investment of Console.

Besides, that’s not true. It may be that you can’t play the next game on full graphical settings, but why would you need to? And a second besides, it’s still probably better graphics than on the console. You can optimize and customize on the PC, you cannot on the consoles. Sure, eventually the PC will maybe fall behind, but that takes time. On the console, you have that one thing.

But that’s neither here or there as it’s completely beside the argument in my opinion.

That bolded line i never said, you made it up completely, let alone constantly.

Well, sure, maybe not constantly. I admit that just slipped in there. But are you honestly saying there is not a very strong and obvious undertone in your posts that PS4 is superior to PC, XBox, etc.?

I got Transistor, Apotheon, Swapper, Steamworld Dig, Ponchos, and whatnot for Free on PSN, and they all bored me out, because Indie has hit shovelware homogenous state (again not all, generally majority of them), not to mention repetitive pixel art.

So have AAA games. They are very homogenous, they are repetitive, they copy the same money-making formulas etc. Sure, they have better graphics (yet, very similarly overusing the same graphical styles), but… What’s the argument here?

Games in general are homogenous, boring etc. etc. It’s the ones that stand out and are of exceptional quality that are the whole point, not the exception.

Finally, I admit that I have trouble following your trail of thought sometimes, so that may cause me to sometimes misunderstand what you are saying on occasion.

Anyways, I don’t mean for this to get so heated, I think we both just got a bit mixed up about what each other was saying Although I am above defending PC, I am not saying that consoles don’t have big advantages too - and personally I really wish the consoles would get more games I’m interested in because I generally much prefer playing on them than I do on PC.

Looks like Cities: Skylines is what EA’s SimCity should have been.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/255710/

SoccerDude28 - 13 March 2015 02:50 PM

Looks like Cities: Skylines is what EA’s SimCity should have been.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/255710/

Yeah, I’m really excited about that Also because it’s a Finnish game… Also because my dad wants to play it Just too bad it’s not in Finnish to make it easier for him.

Lost the battle to score Bloodborne early copy, got FFXV/FFtype0 and Hardline instead.
BloodBorne on Monday.

@tad

Played a bit of Ori, its super artistic, and another metroidvania. Another Indie copying NES era game design, i was done with Metroidvanias after Guacamelee, my fav of that year.
But Art/Music if Ori are good enough to finish the game.

SoccerDude28 - 13 March 2015 02:50 PM

Looks like Cities: Skylines is what EA’s SimCity should have been.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/255710/

Look like there was a big demand for it, game is dominating Steam sales chart since release and community feedback is very positive.

Tad - 13 March 2015 05:16 PM

I’m hearing some great things about Ori and the blind forest. Loads of people I know are saying just buy it. It’s GOTY contender apparently.

Just buy it

Like nomad said it’s another metroidvania but the art style and animations are so good! Refreshing to not see pixel art for once and instead gorgeous animated characters.