Adventure Gamers - Forums

I don’t mind appearing to hate transphobia. For the rest: all your rhetorical questions actually have an answer that can be found in the thread. You don’t appear to be reasonable just because you use a certain tone, or informed for that matter.

I don’t care what you think about my contributions before. This escalated after a boundary was set, respectfully - and I would say rather understanding of ignorance, if a bit weary of talking points from misinformation-based hate campaigns.

The personal impact on me was apparent to you, yet you feel you should add to it. Take that as you will.

Like milennia, I see this thread for what it is, which makes me reconsider if there’s a place for me at his forum at all.

millenia - 24 July 2022 09:15 PM

I really don’t want to start debating about this, but honestly. Both the bathroom and women’s sports “issues” have already been brought up on this thread, and those stances are very much against trans people. Actually studies and statistics have proven that these are not real threats to cis women while trans people face incredible amount of threats every day.

If you’re still reading this thread: I’m sorry you feel that way about the thread, millenia. I have no doubt that trans people have to deal with all kinds of discrimination in their everyday life and that transitioning comes with emotional and physical suffering. But I see an unbridgeable gap if you think that pro-women automatically equals anti-trans.

I would appreciate it if you could post a few links to these studies and statistics? Because I find it very hard to believe science “proves” that women run no risk to be injured by male-bodied participants in women’s contact sports. Or that allowing people who have gone though male puberty with all its phycical advantages is fair to women. And no, I won’t start a debate either.

This thread has more melodrama than King’s Quest VII!

Not sure if that’s the right word, but thanks for your two cents on the matter.

If anyone wonders if I said anything for effect, or because I think my personal opinions should be heard: not really. If anything in this thread confuses you: all information you require is available. If you fear google, use other means.

This forum is important to me, but if people don’t get it and refuse to get it - I’m gone. That’s not some dramatic statement because I think I’m going to be missed, I think it barely matters. It’s just that a place that doesn’t respect a very clear and easy boundary that does matter to me is probably not the place for me.

Add to that the ganging up, the projecting of terms like bigot, nobody calling out the flat-earth level proof and exclusionary rhetoric, but all the “moderate centrist” telling me to change my tone. That’s some real backbone right there.

I’m finishing this playthrough, finishing one more review and I’m done.

Ok, I’m sorry if my words or my link to the movie hurt you, I’m seriously not familiar with all those numerous commentators, activists, trend makers, etc. and can’t tell left from right. I just wanted to say that if people feel like discussing some issues here, in the small, tiny circle of adventure gamers, then they are probably important to them and they are interested in opinions, not just looking for a place to troll or spread hate. We all have different backgrounds, coming from different continents, cultures, generations. Everyone has their own number of issues - be it health, family or money problems, ongoing wars, crises or political situations that impact their daily lives.

You can’t expect all people to follow one universal pattern, especially since this is not a political forum, and even if you feel like some minority group is in danger (because of us, adventure gamers, who are barely noticeable themselves?), labeling opponents or using uncomfortable tactics as in “yes, you meant that and you know that” won’t probably lead to wanted results. There are all nice and yet very different people at adventure forums, and, like all people, they get into fights from time to time over various things - which is normal, this happens even between closest friends all the time, what do you expect from an international community. But making it sound like a personal vendetta even after people already said they meant nothing bad is not something I would’ve expected from you.

Either way, I didn’t plan to invest into this topic, I think everyone involved will also cool down eventually and find peaceful solutions comfortable for all sides, without name calling or cancelling each other.

SoccerDude - 28 July 2022 04:32 PM

I’m really sorry to say this, but younger people these days(especially in the west and western leaning countries) are way too sensitive compared to other cultures. Maybe it is the cushiness of growing up in a generation where they did not face hardships like war or food insecurities like our ancestors did, but that is making people too fragile. You can’t even go in a debate without being labeled awful things like transphobic or racist or bigot.

PS: I applaud AG for allowing this thread.

SoccerDude - 28 July 2022 04:32 PM

I’m really sorry to say this, but younger people these days(especially in the west and western leaning countries) are way too sensitive compared to other cultures. Maybe it is the cushiness of growing up in a generation where they did not face hardships like war or food insecurities like our ancestors did, but that is making people too fragile. You can’t even go in a debate without being labeled awful things like transphobic or racist or bigot.

That’s not really sensitivity though. If they were truly sensitive, they’d be sensitive to why you might hold differing opinions and be curious about your reasons why.

I don’t think the antidote to “cushiness” is to toughen up, that just buries the animosity. And I think sensitivity is a good thing.

You have no idea about my life, or if I have always had food security. I’m not too sensitive, I’m just more aware and less ignorant of certain topics than you. I’m pretty sure there are lots of things that might hurt or offend you. That’s not the point at all.

@Karlok: I know you’re happy AG allows this thread. Congrats. It’s your forum, not that of the people on the other side of you hate campaign.

SoccerDude - 29 July 2022 01:16 PM

Wow 😮 This is really taking it to the next level.

I find Peter Boghossian’s street epistemology interesting and he’s very good at it. Totally unflappable too, you couldn’t insult him if you tried. I’m a bit surprised none of the students seem to know who he is, because he used to work at the Portland State University. 

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/psychology/transphobia
https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-015-1867-2

https://metrocharity.org.uk/news/2021/oct/14/spike-in-transphobic-hate-crime
https://news.berkeley.edu/2021/06/25/why-is-anti-trans-violence-on-the-rise-in-america/
https://time.com/6131444/2021-anti-trans-violence/

https://www.healthline.com/health/transphobia

though this might be more.. applicable.
https://www.stonewall.org.uk/system/files/secondary_gstk_eng_singles-ap2_-_final_edited_-_march_2022.pdf

As a new mod, I wasn’t comfortable just shutting down topics or even banning people. I tried to steer things in a different direction. What anyone wants to think of me is up to them - I think the way I handled myself on the forum speaks for itself.

I’m glad I’m not just hurt or feel resistance to things other than personal insults. Actually, save for being called a bigot by you cool-headed, reasonable types, I really don’t care about personal insults. I do care about the topic at hand. I am disappointed that the response to a very moderate boundary was to cross it and then.. piss all over it, basically - and that it triggering me personally. My biggest regret is that this made me bite, which was a mistake.

I want to thank Advie and Lady Kestrel for trying and steering towards some kind of acceptance. I think Jabod meant well, even though he added to the wrong chorus at first. I kind of get the notion he noticed the dynamics going in this thread, or with the phenomenon of transphobia in general - either way, I wanted to shout out Jabod, because I felt you wanted to make a connection.

Jofog.. your contribution was much appreciated. Millenia - I don’t know what to do with this anymore, either.

For the rest - I’ll be taking a break from the forum. I’ll pop in and delete spammers, try to help out mods, but I won’t be an active forum member anymore. I can’t pretend to be cool with this, or with people who play it down. That’s not a lack of understanding: I know the reasoning, I kind of get how you feel, I see there are nuances and some things are work in progress - it’s just that transphobia is harmful and thus wrong and if you don’t want to acknowledge it, or want to remain ignorant on what it is, at least don’t.. weigh in on some discussion. This is about actual peoples lives.

If you really, really care about this topic, or being taken seriously, look into the “evidence” you shared. I found it took me about two minutes to figure out the source and another half a minute how it was clearly false. Checking sources is something you do when you care about something.

I get that this topic makes people feel some kind of way, that the friction generated gets projected somewhere - it’s interesting to see who does and who doesn’t get to be on the receiving end.

That’s it. Enjoy your forum.