Adventure Gamers - Forums

Niber - 04 October 2012 06:24 PM

isn’t adventure games just like an action-movie but instead of the story serving as an excuse to see action, the story serves as an excuse to perform puzzles?

It’s the other way around and exactly my point - in an adventure game the puzzles are an “excuse” to see the story.

But do adventures, or video games have a potential to become better storytelling medium than the movies? Do they need to? And how would that be achieved, with more or less interactivity? Let me repeat - if a simple interactive movie is the best form games have to offer in order to just tell a story - then, would you “weight” the same action elements and puzzle elements in it? Would it be more simple to follow the story with occasional dialogue choice or solving rudimentary problems with no reflexes involved, than fighting? It may not sound like that but I’m no an adventure fanatic - I like other genres, but I don’t think a typical adventure puzzle and a typical action element weight the same in the storytelling sense.

TimovieMan - 04 October 2012 12:53 PM

Because RPG’s (especially JRPGs and BioWare/Bethesda/Obsidian RPGs) are very story-driven in nature, they’re probably the genre closest to adventure games there is.
But quite a few other games in other genres are story-driven as well (Uncharted comes to mind again). It’s not a strictly defined line, there is a pretty wide grey area between “pure” adventure games and other genres, clouding our definition.

Yes, but how did some AAA games, like L.A. Noire, achieve more “story-driven” effect? They didn’t do that by raising the action, but by incorporating some adventure game elements.

*bump*

There was this thread from a few months back that closely relates to this thread, which means that the “adventure” genre name certainly brings forth a lot of discussion…

Now there’s this thread which is about the adventure content (story-wise) instead of the game genre…

THREAD NECRO!

I prefer Interactive Storyteller, these days. However, I recognize that I’m in a minority on that, so I offer Virtual Problem Solver as the most logical description of the AG genre.

Frogacuda - 19 March 2013 01:05 PM

The thing is, you do a lot of both of those things in other games.

Problem solving is a factor in any kind of game, but the description of most of those gaming genres usually hinges on the principle form of problem solving. FPS involves shooting. RPG borrows it’s name from tabletop RPGs, but the principle form of game play, which is essentially character progression and development, is understood. RTS and TBS defines the style of strategy gaming almost too precisely, but at least it gives you an excellent overview of what style of gaming is involved. Sandbox Games, a bit of a double edged sword as these things go, somewhat accurately defines what you get when you’re playing when you crack into Sims 3 or SimCity 5, or Civ Games, for those that prefer.

The trick for me in this discussion is, I spent months writing a series of internet articles on this topic on my LimboInteractive weblog. The series is incomplete, and it needs revision and citation and stuff, but I’ve gotten busy with other projects and thus haven’t completed the series properly. Still, I like to think that some of what I wrote there is still relevant, if dated.

Frogacuda - 19 March 2013 01:05 PM

I like the term “Adventure game” because it defines the genre by comparison to an archetype, which is meaningful but not completely rigid and pretty accurately sums up how we use the word. But I think “Adventure” should be capitalized (and italicized depending on the style convention of the publication) to distinguish it from the literary genre of adventure.

I’m satisfied that Adventure Games can mean pretty much whatever we want it to, at this point. I spent a lot of years arguing that renaming was needed, but I’m no longer interested in that particular (futile) battle.

However, I’m operating on the premise of the OP, which is that, somehow, there is general confusion about the genre, perhaps created because of the lag in AG development we’re just beginning to bounce back from. If asked now whether we need a name change or not, I’d probably have to side with those who think that boat sailed a long time ago, but I will say it would be nice if we were offered the chance to rebrand properly. I know what I’ll call my games (if I ever get them developed), but that’s another story.

Frogacuda - 19 March 2013 01:05 PM

It’s too bad the first Adventure game didn’t have a more distinct name. If they were called Zork games, no one would get confused or apply the term to other genres.

I don’t think I’d feel safe telling people I played Zork Games, considering how close it is to Dork Games. That’s a connotation I don’t think our genre needs, whether it’s true or not.

After a brisk nap - 19 March 2013 01:20 PM

“Games like Monkey Island”

I think that runs into the old, tired argument about Myst games. Too narrow.

Lee in Limbo - 19 March 2013 01:30 PM

Sandbox Games, a bit of a double edged sword as these things go, somewhat accurately defines what you get when you’re playing when you crack into Sims 3 or SimCity 5, or Civ Games, for those that prefer.

Civ games are prime examples of turn-based strategy, not sandbox games. Shouldn’t you use GTA-games instead???

TimovieMan - 19 March 2013 04:54 PM

Lee in Limbo - 19 March 2013 01:30 PM

Sandbox Games, a bit of a double edged sword as these things go, somewhat accurately defines what you get when you’re playing when you crack into Sims 3 or SimCity 5, or Civ Games, for those that prefer.

Civ games are prime examples of turn-based strategy, not sandbox games. Shouldn’t you use GTA games instead???

I’ll grant you Civ Games. In my articles, I class them as TBS as well. I just think of them as more their own creature, because they’re not just about arranging battle units (like Starcraft, if you take my meaning) but about creating and maintaining civilisations. Part Strategy, part Sandbox, really.

But I tend to think that Grand Theft Auto, though often called a Sandbox game by the Devs at Rockstar in interviews, is really more of a modern spin on an Action RPG with FPS and racing simulator components. I believe the action element makes it far more and less than a true sandbox game, where you build practically the entire game from the ground up, like Sims or Spore do.

See, it’s my funny attitude, and probably my pacifistic nature, but I remember playing in the sand box consisted of trying to build sand fortresses and houses and castles and then running my Star Wars figures through them. Sandboxing to me is all about building and manipulating an environment. GTA (to the best of my knowledge; I don’t like the game’s subject matter or play style, so I don’t play it) isn’t really about that at all. There, the focus is principally on building up your criminal career, which to me sounds more like an RPG, don’t you think?

Just my two cents, though.

Frogacuda - 19 March 2013 05:20 PM

I’d be ok with something like “Inventory puzzle games,” but then we’d have to excommunicate stuff like Myst and 7th Guest to another genre. Which in some ways they already are, but it would feel weird to me.

Maybe “narrative puzzle game” would capture it more broadly?

I don’t know. I think ‘Narrative Puzzle Game’ is pretty narrow, actually. It says exactly what we like to argue AG is without making room for future growth. It’s too specific for my tastes, which is probably why I keep losing this argument.

That’s probably why I like ‘Interactive Storytelling’ or ‘Virtual Problem Solving’, as opposed to ‘Story Game’ or ‘(Inventory) Puzzle Game’ so much. Makes room for all the variances we’ve been seeing lately (HOGs, Casual AGs, Portal games, etc…), and includes Myst games without prejudice.

Virtual Problem Solving invites you to imagine a game, to be sure, but it’s more about the form of gameplay, which is problem solving in a virtual environment. All puzzle games are problem solving in disguise. With Puzzle Games, you are usually confronted with abstract, skill-testing, surrogate problem devices standing in for real world problems (unlocking doors, manipulating/arranging objects, etc…), in order to simulate the idea of taking action within the confines of an interface that can’t accurately simulate that activity in any meaningful way. Most of us don’t like games that are all about walking from one room to another.

I think what scotches it for some is that I’m deliberately not using the word ‘Game’ in the title, because I tend to think we have a bigger medium on our hands than mere ‘games’, which to my mind are skill-testing/honing devices, rather than a new storytelling medium. People love games, and I’ve enjoyed them myself, but I still think that Interactive Storytelling is bigger than that. I just wish I didn’t feel like the old man on the mountain whenever I start preaching about it.

Sorry, got up on my soapbox there. Anyway, thanks for listening.