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Personally there are only a handful of SH stories where the plot really grabbed my attention. Too many involved political intrigue linking back to the indian colonization and for a lot of people they don’t stand the test of time for that reason.

The stories were also riddled with inconsistencies, plotholes and factual errors.

Yeah, I do see Orion’s point, but I’d still rather play as a ‘watered-down’ Sherlock Holmes than as the errand boy Dr. Watson, even if that does mean the games take some creative licence with the character’s abilities. I just think it’s more fun.

Origami - 03 October 2014 11:01 AM

Personally there are only a handful of SH stories where the plot really grabbed my attention. Too many involved political intrigue linking back to the indian colonization and for a lot of people they don’t stand the test of time for that reason.

The stories were also riddled with inconsistencies, plotholes and factual errors.

Ok i really mean no offense, but i find that a bit a bit sad. If you can’t enjoy SH books and are too caught up with inconsistencies, plotholes and factual errors that’s just….sad. Its like reading a fairy tale and saying that’s impossible.

Origami - 03 October 2014 08:18 AM

Actually, Conan-Doyle wasn’t that great of a writer.

Neither are adventure game writers. 

Actually, does the prospect of having Holmes choose the wrong suspect in EVERY case not appeal to anyone else? Making him as inept as possible sounds like fun, especially considering you just know how pompous he’s going to sound when making his completely off-the-mark accusations. Ha, I might just do that.

Origami - 03 October 2014 11:01 AM

Too many involved political intrigue linking back to the indian colonization and for a lot of people they don’t stand the test of time for that reason.

Sherlock Holmes stories, some of the most popular mystery stories worldwide, have done a lot more than just stand the test of time. This is a testament to the clever plots and skill of Conan Doyle, whose excellent writing is very accessible. And Hound of the Baskervilles is a terrific novel.

And I love the references to Asia, international affairs, exotic animals, hints of mysticism and the experiences of the retired military men, etc. The international stuff brings weightiness to the cases and the exotic elements add to the mysterious feel and provide a nice contrast with all the Englishness.

Come now… whatever criticisms of Nemesis you have (I have a few of my own), figuring out the riddles was by far the greatest and most Holmes-ian challenge in a Sherlock Holmes game, including Serrated Scalpel. You were required to do what Holmes would do himself in the books - and it was difficult but rewarding. It was much more than an eyesight test or hidden object finding.

Time-wasting nonsense? Yep - lock-picking, mini-games of checkers, and running around as a dog all qualify.

The dog was fun and in the spirit of the goofier parts of the Holmes canon, which was far from constantly serious. It wasn’t great design by any means - lots of random sniffing in a linear series of puzzle-free and story-free rooms - but it didn’t overstay its welcome for me.

The typed-answer riddles were sometimes good in Nemesis, but not consistently. Some were closer to “quizzing the player on recently encountered trivia” than “deducing a solution.” The object-use puzzles were generally boring; a good adventure game puzzle needs a kind of flair these just lacked. The filler set-piece puzzles (painting assembly, etc) sometimes worked, but usually felt like busywork. This adds up to a game I wanted to love, but barely even liked.

(Testament was a game that I wanted to love, but ended up ‘somewhat liking.’)

You were required to do what Holmes would do himself in the books

It’s been some time since I’ve read the canon, but was hunting down birds and messing with fishing nets, blue objects, etc quite the sort of thing Holmes did? (BESIDES the deliberately comic Blue Carbuncle case, where Holmes hunts down one bird, not six.) Perhaps you have confused Holmes with Guybrush Threepwood?

I have a feeling you gave up trying to solve the riddles and used a walkthrough instead.

Only the inane ones. The logic puzzles, I was generally fine with. The riddles where there were sane typed answers - especially that clever final one leading to the last planned heist - I was fine with. Assorted scavenger hunts? No, not really my thing.

Now, I have played a few games that made me think more like a detective story character, and done so without a walkthrough. In those games:

* The puzzles all tie strictly into the story.
* Hand-holding is limited, and the authors actively misdirect the player now and again just to keep things interesting. (Nemesis does this exactly once, and does it well, but not nearly enough.)
* False solutions abound, and only careful application of logic will eliminate them.
* There are no “sliding tile/solve the lock/reassemble the painting” time-wasters.
* The mystery has actual substance - it isn’t just “a bunch of stuff went missing, here’s a thief leaving you riddles.”

In one, “Turnabout Pairs,” the central mystery goes like this:

“Two brothers are found dead inside separate locked hotel rooms on opposite sides of an upper story of a hotel. One brother is shot, and the other stabbed. The knife that killed the first brother is found next to the corpse of the second. And guess where we find our gun? If you guessed ‘In the locked room with the stabbed brother,’ you have a good head for symmetry!”

When the game asks you to solve this mess, there’s no random searching. Just… a straightforward investigation, followed by a series of clever courtroom sequences of decidedly higher difficulty than the Ace Attorney games. There are blind alleys, including a bad ending path and set of testimonies for accusing a prominent red herring suspect.

Solving THIS one without a walkthrough gave me less of a sense that I’d banged my head against the game until it gave way, and more of a sense that I had solved a mystery. I had found whodunnit, why, and how, and when the game asked me to show my work, I was able to with a bit of persistence and care.

To solve one puzzle, you have to present a killer’s identity, the object or objects they used to create a perfect locked room, and then answer a rapid-fire battery of multiple choice questions without a single mistake. If you get it wrong, no feedback is given as to where your error was, because that would make it too easy. And if you really were thinking and solved it, you’d get a chance to confront the killer directly and deal with all of their backup plans and arguments.

THAT is what I want to see in a Sherlock Holmes game.

Are these detective games - made by amateurs for free - perfect? No, most of the ones I’ve played had serious weaknesses of character writing. The one I listed above did not seem to understand how people actually talk. But as giant mystery puzzles, they’re better than ANY Holmes game I’ve played, which is shocking.

Here’s a question:

If Nemesis is really a bona fide Sherlock Holmes mystery… what’s the mystery? The name of the culprit? Obviously not. How the culprit performed the thefts? Not strongly emphasized. What is it, then? On the other hand, if it’s more a “Sherlock Holmes adventure” than a “Sherlock Holmes mystery,” what gives it its adventurous quality? Exotic locations, danger, intrigue? Compelling characters?

It’s competent, mostly. But that’s pretty faint praise.

Now, a Holmes game could also go a totally different route: not contain much in the way of great puzzling, but give me the sense that I’m really spending time with a believable Holmes and Watson. Serrated Scalpel and Rose Tattoo did this for me. So did Another Bow, mostly. Nemesis didn’t. Testament did a bit better on that account.

WitchOfDoubt - 04 October 2014 07:18 AM

If Nemesis is really a bona fide Sherlock Holmes mystery… what’s the mystery?

Did all of Arthur Conan Doyle’s stories have a mystery, in the sense you are talking about? I haven’t read them all. I thought Nemesis was more like the stories involving Moriarty, where Holmes is up against a clever adversary and simply has to outwit him. That is what made Nemesis work for me. When I was referring to the riddles, I meant only figuring out the notes that Lupin left, not the other puzzles. I think we can all agree sliders aren’t a highly creative puzzle.

At least we agree that Scalpel and Tattoo are good. I’ll have to check out the other games you mentioned.

xxax - 03 October 2014 09:56 PM

Origami - 03 October 2014 11:01 AM

Personally there are only a handful of SH stories where the plot really grabbed my attention. Too many involved political intrigue linking back to the indian colonization and for a lot of people they don’t stand the test of time for that reason.

The stories were also riddled with inconsistencies, plotholes and factual errors.

Ok i really mean no offense, but i find that a bit a bit sad. If you can’t enjoy SH books and are too caught up with inconsistencies, plotholes and factual errors that’s just….sad. Its like reading a fairy tale and saying that’s impossible.

Who ever said I didn’t enjoy them? Who ever said I am too caught up with those mentioned.
I just think Conan Doyle isn’t the greatest plotter of stories. What makes the stories highly enjoyable for me are our beloved protagonists whom I am a huge fan of.

P.S. The analogy you gave about fairy tales is really poor.

OrionO - 04 October 2014 06:14 AM

Sherlock Holmes stories, some of the most popular mystery stories worldwide, have done a lot more than just stand the test of time. This is a testament to the clever plots and skill of Conan Doyle, whose excellent writing is very accessible.

No, that is a testament to great character creation and succesful chemistry between them.
The mysteries themselves are nothing to write home about except for a handful.