[jacog]

I don't know what the deal is with these two... Bioware does a game, Obsidian does the sequel... ?

Who do you all like more?

NWN 1 or 2 ... KOTOR I vs II ...

Thoughts?

[Dasilva]

Well Bioware gets kudos for making a new franchise, and Obsidian just uses the resources to make new content really. (for those 2 games you mentioned anyway)

[Phantom]

Bioware of course, KOTOR2 was such a disappointment after KOTOR1 that I will never, ever forgive Obsidian.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

I don't think it was Obsidian's fault that KOTOR 2 ultimately turned out the way it did. They have a very good reputation, and KOTOR 2 had a very strong beginning and was consistent until about 3/4 in. You may want to investigate LucasArt's influence in the quality of this game in terms of time constraints and deadlines.

[weemies]

So far... Bioware by a landslide. This contest is premature. Let's try again after Obsidian manages to release something original.

[jacog]

Egads, will Obsidian end up doing Jade Empire sequels too?

[SoccerDude28]

Like Trepsie said, it is unfair to blame Obsidian for the rushed KOTOR 2. It shows that they never had the time to finish the game properly, because Lucas Arts had a crazy release schedule for them. I think if Obsidian is given a chance, it might be a more fair comparison.

[undeaf]

So...

does this mean Obsidian is going to make a Baldur's Gate 3?

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by undeaf

So...

does this mean Obsidian is going to make a Baldur's Gate 3?

I doubt it will happen anytime soon. They already have a project announced:
http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/rpg/obsi...result;title;2

[undeaf]

No, I'm not seriously expecting a BG3.

Aren't Obsidian just a regrouping of Black Isle anyway? They've been doing derivative work based on Bioware stuff for a long while. Eg, torment and the IWD series. It's probably just that they don't have the coding power to make their own engines. They used lithtech when they tried to start something more original, "Torn", which apparently was shaping up to be a complete disaster.

Although they were able to competantly make some small changes to the infinity engine. The original icewind dale was the only IE game in which OpenGL actually sped things up.(heart of winter changed that though)

[samIamsad]

Sir-Tech!

Originally Posted by weemies

So far... Bioware by a landslide. This contest is premature. Let's try again after Obsidian manages to release something original.

Irony?

As far as I'm concerned.. I don't care. Bring me sexy games (and give C. Avellone the opportunity to do some of his better writing). Plus, the Alien-atic in me is rather curious about the next game from Obs. PS: Obs is not Black Isle, so any kind of guesswork or camparison in terms of "raw coding power capabilities (or lack thereof)" is rather futile.

Hey, let's have some actual fun and do that list thing again! It's so sexy, well mostly it really isn't, but I'm in the mood for it now. So here I go, as for my five favourite Bioware/Obs/Black Isle games, my list would go something like this:

1. PS:T
2. Baldur's Gate
3. Fallout II
4. Baldur's Gate II
5. Kotor

No "Fallout"? To be honest, while I played and liked the demo back in its day, I came rather late to it, so I was a bit underwhelmed to be honest. Played its sequel first and in some aspects (which obviously counted for me) "Fallout II" appeared to be thrice the game Fallout was. Literally. A hell of a lot more stuff to do, more places to go to, the whole package. I know what some hardcore "Fallout" fans are gonna think of me now but I don't friggin' care about that, either. Meep!

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by undeaf

No, I'm not seriously expecting a BG3.

Aren't Obsidian just a regrouping of Black Isle anyway? They've been doing derivative work based on Bioware stuff for a long while. Eg, torment and the IWD series. It's probably just that they don't have the coding power to make their own engines. They used lithtech when they tried to start something more original, "Torn", which apparently was shaping up to be a complete disaster.

Although they were able to competantly make some small changes to the infinity engine. The original icewind dale was the only IE game in which OpenGL actually sped things up.(heart of winter changed that though)

And Bioware are using their own engine to build Mass Effect??? By your argument, Mass Effect is derivative work of Epic stuff because they are using their engine. How does one company building their own engine dictate the quality of that companie's work?

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Isn't Mass Effect using the Unreal 3 engine?

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Isn't Mass Effect using the Unreal 3 engine?

Yup that was my point

[undeaf]

Look, Black Isle had a pattern of derivativeness. The infinity engine was a lot more than just a graphics engine, it had a lot of stuff built into it really tightly. And Icewind dale reused much more than that from Baldur's Gate. And they kept doing D&D licenced games. And when they tried to get away from that with Torn, for which they only licensed a general purpose engine, the project fell apart.

The Icewind dale series was particularly bad in this respect. The main feature of heart of winter was that you could replay the original areas with enhanced and rebalanced classes(as the new areas were very short and were repetitive too), and then you could replay it again on heart of fury mode, which they took even further in IWD2, with things that could only be found in Heart of Fury mode.

Fallout was an exception to this, but even that was supposed to be based on GURPS, and I heard it still was mostly based on it, and then they made a sequel to it and tried to reuse the rulesystem for Torn.

Yes, technologically mass effect would be derivative. But the technological aspects of games get far too much attention.

[SoccerDude28]

Yes Black isle was very very
derivative indeed.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by undeaf

Yes, technologically mass effect would be derivative. But the technological aspects of games get far too much attention.

That's because the nerds in the industry and the gaming nerds like us have nothing else better to do but keep being sluts about it and so marketing and media in turn become sluts about it as well, and that's the only shit you ever hear about. That's the nature of the nerd, to have multiple orgasms over things like the latest graphics and engines while turning out derivative drivel in the gameplay and content department. And that is the nature, unfortunately, of technology based and technology dependent entertainment - to keep whoring out and jonesing on the next available technical advancements, never mind the elements that truly matter to the human spirit.

Me, I got into RPGs like KOTOR and Jade Empire because I loved the adventuring, stories, characters, and exploration, NOT because I whore out on the technical stuff. In the end, I respond to the humanistic strengths in games, and if the graphics and whatever else serve to elevate those strengths it makes my experience that much more rich.

[undeaf]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

That's the nature of the nerd, to have multiple orgasms over things like the latest graphics and engines

Or PMS about things like corporate arrogance, wasted energy, DRM, or medling between divisions of a company.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

I get the feeling the games industry is ultimately no different from most other industries, but on some levels it's far worse because of nerd psychology.

[samIamsad]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

I get the feeling the games industry is ultimately no different from most other industries, but on some levels it's far worse because of nerd psychology.

Or maybe because nobody has tried to give it a good spanking so far, because... except for the occasional scapegoating whenever today's video game addicted youth does the unthinkable (like going on a killing spree, living whole life's in Worlds Of Warcrafts or eating Chicken McNuggets with barbeque sauce thrice a day), nobody's ever done anything to give it that good, proper spanking when needed. A pity, since all infants need that or so I'm told.

And self-control? Who needs self-control if the cash cow never dries up? Another (sad) question would be: What would be the selling point for most of the games out there if there wasn't some tech buzz of some kind?