[Jeysie]

Heh, that's the other reason I'm so leery... most StarForce-protected games are too "advanced" to run on my comp anyway, so I'd have to use my roommate's much more modern computer. Seeing as how he has to record training and performance CDs on a fairly regular basis for the chorus and choir he directs, if I installed anything that messed up his drives... well... he'd chop off my head and serve it on a platter. Using a blunt butter knife for the chopping.

Peace & Luv, Liz

[natalia]

Originally Posted by Jeysie

Heh, that's the other reason I'm so leery... most StarForce-protected games are too "advanced" to run on my comp anyway, so I'd have to use my roommate's much more modern computer. Seeing as how he has to record training and performance CDs on a fairly regular basis for the chorus and choir he directs, if I installed anything that messed up his drives... well... he'd chop off my head and serve it on a platter. Using a blunt butter knife for the chopping.

Peace & Luv, Liz

Ack! You still up too, Jeysie? I'm giving myself a time limit (although I'm sure that's a big no, no for insomnia). Maybe I'll try to sleep again in 30 minutes. /offtopic

[avatar_58]

Fellow insomniacs here?

[fov]

And here I thought I was up late.

[natalia]

I'm just throwing my whole sleeping pattern out of whack -- yesterday I was up until 4am. And then I took a nap earlier today. So now I'm up and only just now starting to feel a little sleepy.

[Jeysie]

Originally Posted by natalia

Ack! You still up too, Jeysie? I'm giving myself a time limit (although I'm sure that's a big no, no for insomnia). Maybe I'll try to sleep again in 30 minutes. /offtopic

Heh, for now. I tend to be something of a night person by nature... since I'm "in between" jobs right now, I get to go by my own natural sleep schedule, which is usually go to bed around midnight or 1AM, and wake up at 10 or 11AM.

This particular night, though, somebody's damn car alarm keeps going off periodically. It hasn't sounded in quite some minutes, though, so maybe I can now think about trying to get some sleep without worrying about being stuck listening to the idiot thing.

Peace & Luv, Liz

[jjacob]

Originally Posted by fov

How do you know Starforce had anything to do with it?

I'm genuinely curious. There are a lot of things that can make a drive stop working (including the drive's age, as Tanukitsune pointed out), so I wonder how people who install lots of stuff on their machines to begin with can be so convinced that Starforce is the culprit. Please, someone, enlighten me.

I bought the drive four months ago, to replace a pioneer DVD reader which I had for like four years (still working, I gave it to a friend of mine). About two and a half weeks ago I installed SC:CT, aware of the problems with SF, but thinking it wouldn't happen to me. A week ago my drive started acting funny and writing a DVD failed for the first time, then a second time, and a third after which I gave up (different writing software made no difference, I succesfully managed to upgrade the firmware but to no avail). Then reading DVDs/CD failed as well, so now I'm stuck with a broken drive. I installed it in a different computer to check whether or not it may have been my computer's fault but it didn't work either. The webshop where I bought it has since vanished so I can't return it. Luckily I have another DVD writer.

I don't install many software, and when I do it's mainly from established companies (like Adobe, Ahead, Kaspersky etc.). The timing of the malfunction can hardly be anything other than highly suspicious. You're entitled to think otherwise, ofcourse.

Originally Posted by avatar_58

Well I'll just say this....I own quite a few (very good) games that have starforce attached to them. I don't like it, but since Starforce has not ever given me any bad effects I simply just ignore it. Games like Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory are worth it in my eyes.

Also....I would rather endure this crummy driver than to endure the DRM that is Steam. At least with starforce I do not need to be connected to the internet, and with the fall of the company/server my game will still work as it should.

Just my two cents.

Worth it? I don't think any game is worth wrecking a perfectly good piece of hardware. I think you'd change your mind about that statement if/when one of your drives starts acting up

Steam has never given me any trouble. When I had to format my drives a couple of months ago I was amazed how quickly I re-installed all of my Steam games (I was able to play HL2/CS:S within a matter of minutes, literally quicker than installing them from a DVD). Plus, I don't think Valve will be going chapter 11 anytime in the next decade

Originally Posted by natalia

So, anyway, my point is I don't want to go off of anecdotes in either direction ('I've never had a problem with Starforce games' or 'I've heard that so many people have had a problem with Starforce games'). I'll probably just wait to play it untill I can find more concrete answers.

I've played Black Mirror and had no problems with it, none of my drives broke down. Just go ahead and enjoy it! Though if I were you I'd get rid of the drivers once you're done playing.

Originally Posted by fov

I'm not trying to minimize your concerns. I just don't think that "I had this problem with Starforce" stories have much merit. Any problems that do exist are not reproducable. It's not like every person who installs a particular game has a particular problem as a result. Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it. Install the game, play it, and enjoy it... it's extremely unlikely anything bad is going to happen.

You take a chance when you install ANY software. A game with Starforce on it is no more likely to muck up your computer than any other game. Really.

I think some problems are definately reproducable (but NOT, as their ridiculous contest requires, in every other possible hardware configuration). I agree most stories on most forums seem awfully fake and most likely posted by people who just love attention and jump on the "let's bash Starforce"-bandwagon at the first chance they get. I, too, figured there was about zero chance SF would affect my hardware, but here I am, with a broken drive. Ofcourse you take a chance with any software you install, but what chance is there that it'll physically damage your hardware? There must be a better way to enforce copy protection than to install malicious drivers.

[fov]

Originally Posted by jjacob

I don't install many software, and when I do it's mainly from established companies (like Adobe, Ahead, Kaspersky etc.). The timing of the malfunction can hardly be anything other than highly suspicious.

Or it could be a coincidence. That's all I'm saying. People blame a lot of things on Starforce, when they have no direct proof that Starforce is the culprit. New hardware craps out all the time. My boyfriend's 1 year old LCD monitor blew up recently and he had to send it back to Dell for a replacement. I doubt it had anything to do with anything he installed.

It's a shame the web store disappeared, but that would make me even more suspicious of THEM. Maybe they sold you something as new that wasn't new?

Can you return it to the manufacturer? If it's only 4 months old, it might still be under warranty.

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by fov

There are a lot of things that can make a drive stop working (including the drive's age, as Tanukitsune pointed out), so I wonder how people who install lots of stuff on their machines to begin with can be so convinced that Starforce is the culprit. Please, someone, enlighten me.

With StarForce having such a low level access to one's hardware, it's by far more capable of causing ruckus than most other applications. So if an optical drive starts degrading in performance after you install a game which uses StarForce, it's pretty indicative of what's causing the problem. You can't be absolutely sure, of course, but if there are many similar incidents reported, as is the case with StarForce, then the probability is pretty damn high.

[avatar_58]

Heres what I want to know: why is there no proof that StarForce does anything but protect the game? Besides a bunch of random people saying "My drive don't work" is there any hard evidence?

I mean, there are plenty of programs which test the speed and performance of a CD/DVD rom drive....so why not test one out before and after installing it? As far as I know (according to Nero's tester) my drive is just as fast as the day I bought it.

To me all the people complaining have given no proof that StarForce has done anything except "It don't work".

[playing_games]

I also had problems with my DVD burner after playing Still Life. I had to reinstal Windows to relove the problem. What I find strange is that I played Black Mirror and Broken Sword 3, which I think also have Star Force, on the same machine previously and had no problems. Wierd, isn't it?

I have heard that you can install two seperate Windows on your PC after setting up your hard drive into two seperate partitions to get around problems that might be caused by Starforce. This will of course will not help with hardware failures but any driver or software related issues can be circumvented.

[nikoniko]

Originally Posted by playing_games

I also had problems with my DVD burner after playing Still Life.

My burner stopped working after I installed Still Life. Thankfully, I got function back after a reinstall of Windows.

Originally Posted by playing_games

What I find strange is that I played Black Mirror and Broken Sword 3, which I think also have Star Force, on the same machine previously and had no problems. Wierd, isn't it?

Two possibilities: the first is that Starforce had nothing to do with your problem. Coincidences do happen, so people shouldn't automatically assume that there's a connection. However, since there are several of us here who have experienced similar CD/DVD problems beginning very soon after doing a Starforce install, that leads me to a second possibilty: that it could be a conflict caused by Starforce's driver.

The lack of problems with other games can be accounted for in the differences in Starforce releases. For one thing, there are several levels of Starforce, from minimal to maximal protection. Then beyond that, it's useful to keep in mind that Starforce's protection on its maximum level product is updated very often, sometimes making major changes to try to keep ahead of the crackers. So the Starforce on one product is likely to be somewhat different than the Starforce on another. This could be one argument for those who have had problems in the past to not give up on Starforce games altogether, since another game may not have the same issue with your system. However, those of us who have been sufficiently annoyed or hurt by these problems may feel a bit reluctant to try Starforce again.

Originally Posted by playing_games

I have heard that you can install two seperate Windows on your PC after setting up your hard drive into two seperate partitions to get around problems that might be caused by Starforce.

Sure. In fact I just did this myself recently. Since I previously had issues with my DVD burner after installing Still Life, issues which Starforce would like to tell me had nothing to do with their driver, I decided to test out Still Life on a clean install of Windows and see what happened. I no longer use that PC for work anyway, as I recently upgraded, so I figured I didn't have much to lose.

So, I went through all the usual crap to install Windows, left the factory default Windows drivers on there for my hardware instead of updating like I normally would, installed Nero and made sure disc burning worked, also made sure I could read previously burned discs, and everything was fine. Created a DVD backup of my freshly installed OS in that working state.

Installed Still Life, rebooted after the install, and after getting back into Windows, tried to burn a CD. Wasted a disc because the burn failed. Tried reading a commercially-pressed CD. That worked. Tried reading burned CDs and DVDs. Those did not work. Uninstalled Still Life, then uninstalled the Starforce driver, rebooted, and tried reading burned CDs and DVDs again. They still wouldn't read. Tried a burn. No dice.

Now, I am a reasonable person and I know that it's hard to code low-level device drivers that are compatible with every conceivable configuration, so I'll allow that maybe there's something weird about my system that makes it incompatible with their driver. But the fact is, if the driver had not run in the first place, I would not have had any issues. To those who might argue that it just as well could've been code in Still Life apart from the Starforce driver itself that screwed things up, let me continue:

Rebooted into my other copy of Windows. That could read burned discs just fine, so I restored my imaged backup of the other partition. Rebooted into my newly restored OS, tried reading a burned CD, and it worked. Didn't bother trying to burn a CD, since I knew from previous experience that once the capability to read CDs is working, the burning should work also. Installed Still Life again, but this time from a cracked install CD I created when I first bought Still Life and had to go through all this crap. The crack removes the Starforce protection and allows the game to run without it.

Rebooted after the install just to be consistent with my earlier test even though no driver was installed this time. Got into Windows, tried reading a burned CD, it worked fine. Burned a CD, that also worked fine. (Yes, I have zillions of blank CDs. I don't use CDs much anymore since DVDs got cheap enough, so I've still got tons of them around. And no, I'm not a pirate. I backup my work constantly.)

So, to sum up: install the game with Starforce, drive is immediately rendered useless. Install the game without it, the drive works as it should. Sure, one could argue that the problem may not be caused by Starforce, just triggered by a conflict or incompatibility, but what I don't like is their denial that this kind of problem even happens. Obviously something is happening for some people, and it's serious when it affects the normal use of drive function. And when the problem won't even disappear after the removal of the Starforce driver, only after restoring the operating system, it really makes me wonder *what* the driver tried to do that made Windows or my drive flake out so badly.

Anyway, since I'd like to find out if it's a conflict between Starforce and my drive itself, I'm next going to try a different drive in the system. Beyond that, I'm also curious to try out other Starforce-protected games, if I can find friends to lend them to me. Since no one else out there seems interested in tracking down what this problem is and under what circumstances it might happen, then I might as well be the one to investigate. Perhaps if I can actually establish what's going on, Starforce can fix their product. I'm never going to be happy about driver-based copy protection methods, but since they're probably here to stay for some time I can at least try to do my part to improve the end-user experience. On that note, after I do a few more tests and see if I can get closer to the heart of the problem, I will be forwarding detailed results to Starforce to see if this is something we can work out together.

Anyone else who has had similar problems who wants to help out by doing similar tests, I'll be glad to assist you. The broader sample of affected hardware and software configurations I can get, the better chance we have of helping Starforce figure out how to fix this thing, if they'll finally open up to the idea that not all of us are pirates.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

The lack of problems with other games can be accounted for in the differences in Starforce releases. For one thing, there are several levels of Starforce, from minimal to maximal protection. Then beyond that, it's useful to keep in mind that Starforce's protection on its maximum level product is updated very often, sometimes making major changes to try to keep ahead of the crackers. So the Starforce on one product is likely to be somewhat different than the Starforce on another. This could be one argument for those who have had problems in the past to not give up on Starforce games altogether, since another game may not have the same issue with your system. However, those of us who have been sufficiently annoyed or hurt by these problems may feel a bit reluctant to try Starforce again.

Is that how badly Starforce is designed?!!

[jjacob]

Originally Posted by fov

Or it could be a coincidence. That's all I'm saying. People blame a lot of things on Starforce, when they have no direct proof that Starforce is the culprit. New hardware craps out all the time. My boyfriend's 1 year old LCD monitor blew up recently and he had to send it back to Dell for a replacement. I doubt it had anything to do with anything he installed.

Ofcourse it could be a coincedence, but the fact is SF replaces the drivers for optical drives. Now when a writer craps out within two weeks of having those drivers installed, that's quite a coincedence, wouldn't you say?

Originally Posted by fov

It's a shame the web store disappeared, but that would make me even more suspicious of THEM. Maybe they sold you something as new that wasn't new?

The box it came it seemed brand new, it even had the 'special' sticker intact. The writer was completely sealed in a plastic bag, if I remember correctly. Also, the webstore had gotten very positive reviews in a shop survey on Tweakers.net (a very reliable Dutch electronics/computer site), I remember because that's why I ordered it there instead of at other webshops, which sold it for around 10 euros cheaper.

Originally Posted by fov

Can you return it to the manufacturer? If it's only 4 months old, it might still be under warranty.

Way ahead of you Still, thanks for the suggestion! I e-mailed Pioneer the other day to check what my options were, still waiting for a reply.

Originally Posted by playing_games

I also had problems with my DVD burner after playing Still Life. I had to reinstal Windows to relove the problem. What I find strange is that I played Black Mirror and Broken Sword 3, which I think also have Star Force, on the same machine previously and had no problems. Wierd, isn't it?

I have heard that you can install two seperate Windows on your PC after setting up your hard drive into two seperate partitions to get around problems that might be caused by Starforce. This will of course will not help with hardware failures but any driver or software related issues can be circumvented.

Weird, I didn't have any problems with Still Life or TBM, and I think BS3 doesn't have SF (not my copy atleast). Goes to show how different versions affects different hardware, I guess. The different partitions workaround is a bit extreme, albeit a good way to test SF's troubles, as doropose has done.

Originally Posted by doroposo

Rebooted after the install just to be consistent with my earlier test even though no driver was installed this time. Got into Windows, tried reading a burned CD, it worked fine. Burned a CD, that also worked fine. (Yes, I have zillions of blank CDs. I don't use CDs much anymore since DVDs got cheap enough, so I've still got tons of them around. And no, I'm not a pirate. I backup my work constantly.)

Yaarrrrrrrr, what's wrong with bein' a pirate, yarrrrrrrrrrrr?

Originally Posted by doropose

So, to sum up: install the game with Starforce, drive is immediately rendered useless. Install the game without it, the drive works as it should. Sure, one could argue that the problem may not be caused by Starforce, just triggered by a conflict or incompatibility, but what I don't like is their denial that this kind of problem even happens. Obviously something is happening for some people, and it's serious when it affects the normal use of drive function. And when the problem won't even disappear after the removal of the Starforce driver, only after restoring the operating system, it really makes me wonder *what* the driver tried to do that made Windows or my drive flake out so badly.

Exactly, personally, I think it's an expression of repressed guilt, on top of numerous financial motives, ofcourse.

Originally Posted by doroposo

Anyway, since I'd like to find out if it's a conflict between Starforce and my drive itself, I'm next going to try a different drive in the system. Beyond that, I'm also curious to try out other Starforce-protected games, if I can find friends to lend them to me. Since no one else out there seems interested in tracking down what this problem is and under what circumstances it might happen, then I might as well be the one to investigate. Perhaps if I can actually establish what's going on, Starforce can fix their product. I'm never going to be happy about driver-based copy protection methods, but since they're probably here to stay for some time I can at least try to do my part to improve the end-user experience. On that note, after I do a few more tests and see if I can get closer to the heart of the problem, I will be forwarding detailed results to Starforce to see if this is something we can work out together.

Detective Doroposo on the case Nice work, I know I'd be too lazy to get to the bottom of this, on the other hand, I only have one working system, and previous experience has taught me to be careful with my baby

Originally Posted by doroposo

Anyone else who has had similar problems who wants to help out by doing similar tests, I'll be glad to assist you. The broader sample of affected hardware and software configurations I can get, the better chance we have of helping Starforce figure out how to fix this thing, if they'll finally open up to the idea that not all of us are pirates.

Well, don't know what I could tell you other than my drive's model: Pioneer DVR-110, running WinXP SP2, presumably killed off by SF accompanying SC:CT. I can't test the drive anymore since it's dead (hooked it up on another system to check, still dead), and I don't want to risk my other Plextor writer

[Erwin_Br]

Originally Posted by avatar_58

I mean, there are plenty of programs which test the speed and performance of a CD/DVD rom drive....so why not test one out before and after installing it? As far as I know (according to Nero's tester) my drive is just as fast as the day I bought it.

To me all the people complaining have given no proof that StarForce has done anything except "It don't work".

Hello, StarForce does a whole lot more than TESTING speed of a CD/DVD drive. It CHANGES it during runtime.

What's even worse, it REPLACES the original FACTORY DRIVERS of your drives (yes, both your player AND burner! Even though I never use the burner to play games).

That last fact alone makes me want to avoid it like the plague, regardless of whether or not it has caused any problems with certain users.

I'm not making this up, btw. You can all check it on the website of StarForce.

--Erwin

[avatar_58]

Originally Posted by Erwin_Br

Hello, StarForce does a whole lot more than TESTING speed of a CD/DVD drive. It CHANGES it during runtime.

Thats not what I said. I said that IF Starforce is allegedly affected your CD/DVD speed, then why not use a speed tester (like the one in the nero's program) to prove it?

[Tanukitsune]

When I told a friend of mine about Starforce, he remembered that recently one of his DVD drives was giving him trouble and assumed it was Starforce's fault...

Later he found out it was InCD's fault...

This just proves, that are just too quick to just to conclusions and put the blame on Starforce too quickly...

But I'm not defending it either...

[nikoniko]

Well, I'll miss the old PC when I'm gone. I'm not taking it back to Japan with me -- it was expensive sending over here to the US, and I only used it a few times before going to my favorite computer store and putting together a nice new custom system. It's much cheaper to build a custom PC here than in Japan, even including the overseas shipping charges when I go home. The old system and whatever's left of this huge stack of CDs will be bequeathed to a friend of mine when I leave, assuming I don't destroy the computer before then. I'm going to hold on to this drive, though, since I think it's the key component which Starforce doesn't like or which doesn't like Starforce.

Anyway, I did a new test tonight, this time with Splinter Cell 3: Chaos Theory, generously donated by my friend Alex. I performed the same test I used with Still Life, and ended up with the same detrimental results to burning and reading burned discs. I also tried running the game, but Starforce failed to validate the disc. I've sent an e-mail to Starforce tech support to ask their advice, so we'll see if they offer some workaround. In the past they were difficult to deal with, but perhaps I'll find them more helpful this time.

While digging around a bit, I discovered something that may be a huge clue as to what's going here and why the drive is failing. I observed that after installing Starforce and doing the reboot, my burner had downshifted to PIO-mode operation. This in itself is enough to sabotage disc burning and the reading of some CDs, and is probably the key reason Starforce can't validate the disc. The drive would usually be switched to this mode if Windows were receiving too many errors from the drive, and since the CD isn't scratched and worked fine for my friend, it seems likely that the Starforce driver is the culprit. And when problems like this arise, Windows sometimes does not restore the drive to DMA operation even when the errors disappear, so that would explain why the problems still manifest after Starforce is uninstalled. I just tried setting the drive back to DMA mode manually, but Windows refuses to do it. The next time I uninstall Starforce, I'll try setting DMA again when I'm done. Once that's accomplished, assuming it lets me do it, I imagine the drive should work fine. That sort of solution is definitely preferable to restoring Windows from a backup to get the drive working again. If it doesn't work out, then I may be pursuing the wrong lead or have too small a part of the overall picture.

Hmm... maybe I won't wait for Starforce any longer, as I'm eager to follow through on that idea. Here we go with the uninstall... I'll post an update here later.

[jjacob]

Originally Posted by avatar_58

Thats not what I said. I said that IF Starforce is allegedly affected your CD/DVD speed, then why not use a speed tester (like the one in the nero's program) to prove it?

Why prove something they admit to?

Originally Posted by Tanukitsune

When I told a friend of mine about Starforce, he remembered that recently one of his DVD drives was giving him trouble and assumed it was Starforce's fault...

Later he found out it was InCD's fault...

This just proves, that are just too quick to just to conclusions and put the blame on Starforce too quickly...

But I'm not defending it either...

Well I don't have InCD installed (I've known about those issues for a long time), but I get your point, still, I'm pretty sure SF is the culprit, besides, it's not just trouble, the drive is pysically broken. I haven't gotten an email back from Pioneer yet (which troubles me), aside from an automated response.

Good luck doroposo - I haven't noticed SF switching my drive to PIO mode (that's the first thing I checked when it started acting up), so that's definately something weird on your end (perhaps that helps). As I said, good luck.

[nikoniko]

I got too tired to finish last night, so I worked on it a bit today. I performed an uninstall of the Starforce drivers and rebooted, then checked the transfer mode again. Still PIO, so I did the usual trick to try to force it: removing the drive from the hardware list, then letting Windows detect it again. Windows found it, added it, and promptly set it to PIO mode again. Sigh. I began to be suspicious that the Starforce drivers had not really been uninstalled, and sure enough, I discovered that they were still installed and operating on my system. Nice UN-install utility, Starforce. You guys need to study your Latin prefixes.

In case the Starforce uninstall had failed because SC3:CT was still installed, I went ahead and removed the entire game. Ran the Starforce uninstall utility again, rebooted, then did another check for Starforce drivers. Yup, still installed. You know, I haven't really supported lumping Starforce together with the category of malware before, since I don't think they intend to be this annoying to someone who isn't trying to hack their protection, but when their uninstall utility says that it has removed their product but actually hasn't, they're pushing themselves right to the borderline in my book. While I've had uninstallers fail to work before, I've never had a legitimate product tell me it had removed itself from my system but had not done so. Just in case it was an issue of Windows automatically restoring the driver from backup, I checked and made sure there was no Starforce files besides in the normal locations. There wasn't.

Time for Safe Mode. I ran the uninstall utility from Safe Mode, rebooted, then tried to boot Windows normally. It crashed during startup with a System Critical Error. Rebooted and tried again, same problem. Rebooted and tried Last Known Good Configuration, crash again. Tried Safe Mode, and thankfully was able to get in successfully. Digging through the registry I found some entries in HKLM/System/CurrentControlSet/Services that were Starforce-related. Removed them, rebooted, and I was able to get into Windows normally again. Checked driver status, and Starforce was really gone this time. Just to be paranoid, I double-checked to make sure the .sys files Starforce uses were nowhere to be found on my drive. They weren't.

E-mailed Starforce. Asked them very respectfully to please address uninstallation issues and provided them details about my experience.

Checked my drive, it was still operating in PIO mode. Tried to restore it to DMA again, but failed. Edited the registry to try to force it, rebooted, and no luck. At this point, There wasn't any point in trying to burn discs, because I knew that wouldn't work. But I did try to read a burn disc and it failed.

This time I decided to do a System Restore to roll back to a pre-Starforce installation state. As most of us know, System Restore isn't a perfect solution and often fails to restore an old state exactly, so I wasn't going to hold my breath about it. It seemed worth the attempt, though, since it's one thing that an ordinary user might try.

After waiting a surprisingly long time for the restore to complete (considering SC3:CT+Starforce had been the only non-system software installed), Windows was ready, and I checked the drive. Same tiresome song. Old MacDonald had a farm, P-I-P-I-O...

By now, I was feeling keenly aware of time passing and precious minutes being sucked into oblivion (no, not Bethesda Softworks' Oblivion, since the release has been delayed), so I gave up on further mucking around, rebooted, and did a full restore of the test partition from backup. After that, the drive finally registered properly again and operated in DMA mode. Did a burn test and it came out just fine.

I was going to test another drive with Starforce, but at this point I'm a little tired of the whole thing. I'm going to take a break and see how I feel later. I need to go out and meet a client this afternoon anyway, so I don't want to start a new test now and take off in the middle of it.

I suspect another drive may work without problems, since the Starforce issue is likely confined to certain drives with certain manufacturing characteristics. If it wasn't, I'm sure there would be a much higher incidence of user problems. If I do have issues with another manufacturer's drive, I'll have to look into whether there are other components of the system which may be involved.