[remixor]

Originally Posted by Jake

Hella right, even. If you will.

I won't, thank you.

[Kingzjester]

Originally Posted by remixor

I won't, thank you.

Aw, c'mon! Don't be a party pooper.

[oerhört]

Originally Posted by Kingzjester

Are you saying Riven has no awesome obstacle courses?

I'm not sure I understand fully what your question is, but Riven is indeed one big challenge, which of course means lots of obstacles and things to figure out. However, these are integral to the concept, and fit nicely into the world logic, at least as much so as in Day of the Tentacle.

[WontonGoodsoup]

Awsome Obstacle Course

[Vel]

Three words:

Le serpent rogue

[Krazy]

Originally Posted by Stinger

Well, now I've gone and broken my promise about not responding to feedback, but this is worth addressing: there is an article I wrote as a Top 20 followup that included, among other things, a list of the games I had slotted 21-30. This list includes Conquests of the Longbow, the next two GK games, and Kyrandia 3, which I like even more today than I did when I wrote the list.

It also includes full disclosure of the games people brought up during the resulting discussions that I had been unable to play before compiling the list, including Discworld Noir (I don't believe the first two games are Top 20 material), Sanitarium (which I have since remedied), Cruise for a Corpse (ditto), and Sherlock Holmes: Rose Tattoo.

I'm sure someone can come up with an archive.org link to this article.

I like all the Larry games very much, but would have a very, very difficult time making a case for any of them being anywhere near the Top 20. Today, I think I maybe could put LSL3 somewhere 25-40, but that's it. Same with the Police Quest series, which is absolutely my favorite PC game series ever, but there aren't any really great games in the series.

I liked Legend's adventures, but there's nothing there I would consider Top 20 material. I plan on replaying Death Gate again soon though, as some who I respect have told me my judgment erred on that one.

Syberia will never make the Top 20. I'm as big a fan of Syberia as anyone, but there's no valid argument for it to be considered one of the truly elite adventures ever. It's just the best adventure since TLJ.

And by the way, there were really only two reasons I wrote this Top 20. 1) To get people talking about old adventure games, and 2) To make people think about how they would rank the greatest adventures ever. This isn't any sort of "The List" or anything, I'm just a critic and a fan like everyone else, and you're all free to write your own lists; in fact I would encourage it.

And finally, before I really do retire from adventure games forever, allow me a moment to cackle hysterically at the notion of something from the Gobliiins series being in the Top 20.

- Evan

And erm whats your opinion of Monkey Island 3?

[Stinger]

Originally Posted by Krazy

And erm whats your opinion of Monkey Island 3?

It also was in the Next 10...somewhere around 23 or 24, I think.

- Evan

[oerhört]

But Evan, what's your reasoning behind letting out the Myst-series, and specifically, Riven? I asked this further up the thread somewhere.

[Kingzjester]

Originally Posted by oerhört

But Evan, what's your reasoning behind letting out the Myst-series, and specifically, Riven? I asked this further up the thread somewhere.

And on the eighth day, God said, Myst and Riven killèd the adventure genre, and so it beèth.

[tabacco]

Originally Posted by oerhört

But Evan, what's your reasoning behind letting out the Myst-series, and specifically, Riven? I asked this further up the thread somewhere.

Hmm... my guess would be that he didn't like them

[oerhört]

Originally Posted by tabacco

Hmm... my guess would be that he didn't like them

Of course, what I'm asking for is the reasoning, not the conclusion.

[Vel]

Myst-like games should not be considered adventure, but puzzle instead, in my hunble opinion - they have far more puzzles, they do not emphasize on the plot and hardly ever are there any dialogues.

[RLacey]

Originally Posted by Vel

Myst-like games should not be considered adventure, but puzzle instead, in my hunble opinion - they have far more puzzles, they do not emphasize on the plot and hardly ever are there any dialogues.

I could go the whole way, and be really damning .

Myst and all its sequels are, in my opinion, nothing but a glorified slide-show, with strange, unexplained illogic puzzles.

I hate them .

[Vel]

No they ain't illogical, but they are wird and often almost impossible to solve(like the rainbow bridge in Atlantis 2)

[oerhört]

Originally Posted by LaceyWare

Myst and all its sequels are, in my opinion, nothing but a glorified slide-show, with strange, unexplained illogic puzzles.

The puzzles are always explained if you keep your eyes open.

Originally Posted by Vel

Myst-like games should not be considered adventure, but puzzle instead, in my hunble opinion - they have far more puzzles, they do not emphasize on the plot and hardly ever are there any dialogues.

This is, quite frankly, bollocks. What I'm talking about, is the original Myst-series, not all the more or less (un)talented rip-offs, and the original series still is one of the better adventure series out there. They've got as much plot as any adventure game, but it is mostly explained through books and the game world itself, not via cut-scenes. This is however no problem for calling it an adventure game, and it usually works out brilliantly - often more so than traditional adventures.

To put every game with Myst mechanics in the same category is unfair and incorrect. There are a number of mediocre and bad games out there which uses this tech, but it doesn't detract from the brilliance of Riven in particular, and the delightfulness of Myst and Myst III.

[Kingzjester]

Originally Posted by oerhört

They've got as much plot as any adventure game, but it is mostly explained through books and the game world itself, not via cut-scenes. This is however no problem for calling it an adventure game, and it usually works out brilliantly - often more so than traditional adventures.

I GOT IT! YOU'RE ON CRACK! That explains all.

Tell me, oerhört dearest, when was the last time you played an adventure game that gave you story elements via cut-scenes only - which is what you seem to imply?

And, no, I don't feel like arguing with crackheads.

Please, carry on.

[oerhört]

Originally Posted by Kingzjester

I GOT IT! YOU'RE ON CRACK! That explains all.

Tell me, oerhört dearest, when was the last time you played an adventure game that gave you story elements via cut-scenes only - which is what you seem to imply?

And, no, I don't feel like arguing with crackheads.

Thank you for such a serious reply. Nice to see we don't flame each other on this forum.

Now let's take a look-see on what I actually said:

Originally Posted by oerhört

[The plot] is mostly explained through books and the game world itself, not via cut-scenes.

I did not say that other adventure games only tell their story through cut-scenes, now did I? I tried to point out that the difference in storytelling doesn't disqualify the Myst-series' stories. But to make everything clear, add "dialogue" and "voice-overs" to the most common means used by most adventure games.

Also, my definition of a cut-scene is a scene where the player no longer has control over the avatar, just so we're talking the same language here.

[Kingzjester]

Kingz :eek: oerhört

If I want to read books, I read books. When I play adventure games I want to have an adventure. I don't want to repair broken mashinery in a deserted universe stopping from time to time to go to the library in the said deserted universe to get my chunk of the story.

[Stinger]

Maybe it's just me, but somehow Kingz' schtick seems much funnier when I'm not the target...

[Wormsie]

I hate to say it, but it is just you