[Henke]

Originally Posted by mag

Well geeze, if we're going to go that far back, why stop there? After all, we all started out in Africa.

That far? The absolutely earliest settlers who moved in permanently "with" the indians was like 400 years ago. But most people didn't come to America until after 1776 of course which is only 215 years ago. Now we're really talking about the earliest ancestors of todays americans. Historicly speaking that's yesterday. You just moved in.

[mag]

Originally Posted by 100ja a.k.a. mr_mitja

Next, Jack Nicholson Is the KING!

Okay. I'll grant you that one. Jack Nicholson as the Joker is probably Batman's one redeeming virtue.

Originally Posted by Henke

That far? The absolutely earliest settlers who moved in permanently "with" the indians was like 400 years ago. But most people didn't come to America until after 1776 of course which is only 215 years ago. Now we're really talking about the earliest ancestors of todays americans. Historicly speaking that's yesterday. You just moved in.

Yes, but nations change all the time. That's the nature of civilized states. So to say that one nation is any more illegitimate than any other because its people weren't always there is ridiculous.

mag

[Henke]

Originally Posted by mag

Yes, but nations change all the time. That's the nature of civilized states. So to say that one nation is any more illegitimate than any other because its people weren't always there is ridiculous.

Who ever said such a thing? That is not what I was pointing out. If you thought that was what I was trying to say then I have to apologies. :eek:

(what I meant was that I didn't think patriotism was the same thing in America as in the rest of the world)

[Maquisard]

Originally Posted by mag

That right there is exactly the problem with patriotism. It tells you that you are more similar to some stranger in your own country than you are to some stranger in a different country. And that sort of thinking in which you tell yourself that your group is different from all those other groups is the basis of every prejudice in history.
mag

Having lived in two countries, I KNOW that total strangers from Serbia are more similar to me than total strangers from America. It's just a fact of life--we have the same culture, the same language. What's so hard to understand about that?

[Kaparen]

Originally Posted by Mares

hehe! sure.

yeah for sure...all the way.


----
"Terrorist" is just a word, it´s your actions that confirm it..."Jihad" or "Campaign" doesn´t really matter..it´s the same.

[mag]

Originally Posted by Mares

Having lived in two countries, I KNOW that total strangers from Serbia are more similar to me than total strangers from America. It's just a fact of life--we have the same culture, the same language. What's so hard to understand about that?

Anybody can learn to speak Serbian. And differences in culture between nations are largely superficial. So please explain to me how an American is significantly different from a Serb.

Originally Posted by Henke

Who ever said such a thing? That is not what I was pointing out. If you thought that was what I was trying to say then I have to apologies. :eek:

(what I meant was that I didn't think patriotism was the same thing in America as in the rest of the world)

What I was trying to point out is that America, although definitely younger than other countries, is not terribly different otherwise. And since the only thing patriotism requires is the idea of a nation, I don't think patriotism in the U.S. is that much different from patriotism anywhere else. Other countries might have more history to work with, but it's the same concept.

mag

[Maquisard]

Originally Posted by mag

Anybody can learn to speak Serbian. And differences in culture between nations are largely superficial. So please explain to me how an American is significantly different from a Serb.
mag

The difference is not only in the languages but in the styles of communication. Americans are mostly skilled at chit-chating and sharing information about themselves, while Serbs like heated discussions about ideas and the world around them. I've seen a Serb try to raise what he thinks is a engaging conversation topic and get shut down by an American who percieves it as confrontational. So the Serb listens on to what he thinks of as boring and trivial chit-chat. Note that I am somewhat atypical of a Serb, and have had to adapt to both styles of communication. Therefore, I relate that example from observing others, rather than my own experience.

BTW I realize that perceived differences can lead to prejudice. People are more comfortable talking with people they can easily communicate with (in both language and style) so they stick with that group. I've watched the dynamics of society at community college--Americans stuck to themselves, while foreigners of similar cultures hung out together. People of nations that politically dislike each other hit it off easily, when they found out they have more in common than they ever thought possible. They had a common concensus: they percieved Americans as cold and unfriendly, with a superficial mask of friendliness on the surface. This was a justified view in many cases, but it further discouraged people from any more attempts to communicate. I myself have lived in the dorms with Americans for an extended period of time, so I've learned how to make friends with them.

I guess I have in a way proven your point by saying that people of competing nations found that there is very little difference between them. If they didn't meet in America but were in their respective countries, I'm sure patriotism would compel them to root for their own nation against the other. Interesting how the third party common ground, and the third party common language allowed for them to surpass that...Hmmm So my conclusion would be that when isolated, patriotism can lead to prejudice. However, when one is given a broad perspective on the world, it could become nothing more than a nostalgia for one's fatherland. The love of familiar surroundings, tastes, smells and sounds. The rediscovered ease of communication in one's mother tongue.

[mag]

I don't think there's anything wrong with loving your home and the community you grew up in. But that's a different thing from something like a nation. After all, I would be insane to consider the entire United States or even all of Pennsylvania my home community. Even in my hometown of Pittsburgh, I don't know the vast majority of people. Also note that the differences you point out that people have have more to do with their ideas than their nationality. Granted people who live in the same area often tend to have similar ways of thinking, but you can hardly use that to judge every person in that country. I'm not saying that patriotism is always a bad thing. In many cases it's harmless. But it can also be extremely dangerous. I prefer to place my trust in individuals rather than nations.

Wow, did this thread get off topic or what?

On the original topic of summer movies, I think the best looking movies left to be released this summer are The Village and The Manchurian Candidate. And is anybody else a bit annoyed that a movie is being released of I, Robot, the story that was written because Isaac Asimov was sick of stories about killer robots turning on their masters, and it's about a killer robot turning on its masters?

mag

[ConcreteRancor]

I Robot is not I Robot. Pretty simple. I actually don't know anyone who is excited about that movie, because everyone knows that it has f*ck all to do with the actual book.

www.theaterhopper.com has a good comic about it.

[mag]

Yeah, I don't expect movies based on books to have anything to do with the book. Although, Peter Jackson has renewed my hope for films that are better than the books they are based on. Still, I think it's a little ironic that I, Robot is exactly the kind of story Asimov wanted to put a stop to when he wrote I, Robot.

I like that comic, though.

mag

[ConcreteRancor]

Originally Posted by mag

Yeah, I don't expect movies based on books to have anything to do with the book. Although, Peter Jackson has renewed my hope for films that are better than the books they are based on. Still, I think it's a little ironic that I, Robot is exactly the kind of story Asimov wanted to put a stop to when he wrote I, Robot.

I like that comic, though.

mag

There aren't many movies that are better than the books, for sure, but they are out there. It's hard for me to say whether I liked the LotR books or movies better, since I think having read the books is essential to my love of the movies.

There are a few movies, though, that I can definitely say were better than their books. Such as A Time to Kill, The Princess Bride, and The Shawshank Redemption. All three are great movies, (the latter two are my two favorites,) and all remain relatively faithful to the source material. The Princess Bride goes off in places, most noticeably in its changing of "The Zoo of Death" to "The Pit of Despair," but the Zoo of Death sequence in the book would have been an extremely disturbing, yet somewhat boring sequence in an otherwise fast-paced and charming movie.

Also, in the book, Fezzik has a handlebar mustache.

[100ja a.k.a. mr_mitja]

Originally Posted by ConcreteRancor

There are a few movies, though, that I can definitely say were better than their books.

I can remember one, Dog day Afternoon. The book is sooooooooooo lame, but the movie is a darn classic! I also liked The Name of the Rose movie better than the book. So, there are movies that are better than the books they were made after, it's just that these statements are highly subjective.

[mag]

Speaking of movies based on books, the most recent The Time Machine movie was actually kind of good. I was surprised because I was expecting it to hurt me. I just think it would have been better if they hadn't called it The Time Machine because it had absolutely nothing to do with Wells' book. It was a pretty decent scifi story in and of itself. It just wasn't The Time Machine.

And on the Spider-Man 2 issue, I finally got around to seeing it Thursday. I thought it was a great movie. Sure there were a few moments that seemed kind of dumb. But those were rare, so they didn't really outweigh the movie's awesomeness. Besides, you have to expect at least a little bit of that from a summer popcorn flick. I think they did a great job of showing a tormented Peter Parker. He's a superhero, but he also has a real life outside of fighting crime. That's something I think is lacking in a lot of superhero stories. And the whole message of "with great power comes great responsibility" may sound kind of trite, but I think it's one that people need to hear. A lot of people know it as a concept, but they don't really understand what it means. Also, the "New Yorkers rally behind Spider-Man" scene was MUCH better this time around.

mag

[scabb]

Originally Posted by mag

I don't think there's anything wrong with loving your home and the community you grew up in. But that's a different thing from something like a nation. After all, I would be insane to consider the entire United States or even all of Pennsylvania my home community. Even in my hometown of Pittsburgh, I don't know the vast majority of people.

Have any of you read Northern Lights, or The Golden Compass as it's called in the US? There's a paragraph or two in there which I find describes "patriotism" rather well.

"[T]he children [...] of one college waged war on those of another. But this enmity was swept aside when the town children attacked a colleger: then all the colleges banded together and went into battle against the townies. [...] But even this was forgotten when other enemies threatened [The brick-burners' chldren who lived by the Claybeds, and the gyptian families who lived in canal-boats]."

There are probably better quotes and better examples that better read people can better me with, but I quite like that one.

As for other films worth mentioning this summer - well, there's The Bourne Supremacy. The prequel was quite good, although apparently it wasn't a very faithful adaption of the books. I might go watch, depending on how boring the holidays become.

"Hero", an excellent wirework martial arts film is also getting a US cinema release too (You could just import the DVD, though). I know some people can't stand the ridiculously exaggerated fighting featured in Crouching Tiger, but I love it. This film has the same action choreographer, Woo-ping Yuen; who also did the Kill Bills, Matrixs, Once Upon a Time in Chinas and Iron Monkey.

Oh, and the new Thunderbirds film looks utterly non-FAB.

[scabb]

Originally Posted by mag

And the whole message of "with great power comes great responsibility" may sound kind of trite, but I think it's one that people need to hear. A lot of people know it as a concept, but they don't really understand what it means.

[Maquisard]

Ah, the power of smudge!

[Kolzig]

Back to the topic, summer movies.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/catwoman/

Maybe the lowest score ever?

I can tell you one thing, this movie is one of the worst movies ever done.

[ConcreteRancor]

Originally Posted by Kolzig

Back to the topic, summer movies.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/catwoman/

Maybe the lowest score ever?

I can tell you one thing, this movie is one of the worst movies ever done.

Those reviews make me so happy. I LOVE it when movies that betray the fans in the name of money go down the toilet. I hope it fails miserably in the box-office.

That'll show Halle Berry for not wanting to do X-men 3. Now she'll have to just to get her career back on track. And she'll have a Razzie to sit next to her Oscar.

[Kolzig]

Originally Posted by ConcreteRancor

That'll show Halle Berry for not wanting to do X-men 3. Now she'll have to just to get her career back on track.

But you know what's awesome?

Bryan Singer signed to do Superman V couple of days ago.

That means he won't propably make X3, but at least the fans got what they want, no crap McG on the director's seat in Superman V.

Dc comic superhero movies are on the rise, if we forget this abomination that is also known as Catwoman aka CINO, Batman Begins is looking great and so is Superman V.


And in other news CHECK OUT THIS COOL FAN FILM TRAILER!

World's finest
http://www.theforce.net/theater/nons...st/index.shtml

It was just released, it's made by Sandy Collora who also made Batman Dead End fan film in 2003.

[ConcreteRancor]

I heard about Singer's departure from X-men 3, which saddens me, but it's cool he's doing Superman.

And it's true what you say about comic book movies, but I think we'll also have to ignore the Green Lantern movie that's in the works. I mean... Jack Black? The producers must have drunk too much of the green fairy to give the green light to this Green Lantern. (Rimshot.)

At the risk of putting too much green into this post, I wonder if Kevin Smith's Green Hornet movie will be good?

EDIT: Wow, green really looks like a weird word when you type it five times in a row.