[LeChimp]

Originally Posted by Mares

God save us from the day when patriotism is thought of as a negative quality.

No, patriotism isn't bad at all, the scene in spiderman just seemed really really cheesy (the bridge scene)

[100ja a.k.a. mr_mitja]

Sorry again guys but I ain't from the states and I have rarely seen opatriotism in US movies taht wasn't cheesy and pathetic. 25th hour wasn't (that much) f.e. but Spiderman . And the one thing that ruined it most is the final scene (it should have been WTC, but it was redone and the bridge scene was sooooooooo lame). Also, I don't like the acting, especially Dafoe.
Batman 3 isn't better, I was really pissed yesterday when I wrote that. But now, I feel like they're on the same level of quality (sorry spidey fans, I'm more of a batfan myself).

[Henke]

Originally Posted by Kolzig

I too saw Rocketeer for the first time when I was a little kid. During the last six months, I've seen the movie twice.

It's still good action filled movie.

(I always thought that Billy Campbell was Bruce Campbell's brother, but I checked it out once and realized that he wasn't )


And the game, are you by any chance meaning Cinemaware's Rocket Ranger, it wasn't about the movie, but it certainly had the same feeling.

I must see it again then. You're correct, it was Cinemaware's Rocket Ranger we played. Is it about the comicbook that the movie is based on or are they totally unrelated? I remember that the game was hard as hell. We spent weeks trying to get the guy flying without crashing. With the game came this sort of spinning diagram you was suppose to use. We were only around 10 years old at the time so it toke a while to get it right.

[mag]

I don't want to interrupt this little Spidey hate fest, but are you guys sure you saw Spider-Man and not perhaps Batman & Robin? Sure, Spider-Man is by no means perfect, but come on. Spider-Man was awesome. There's no way you can tell me that any Batman movie is better than Spider-Man. Frankly, there was no such thing as a good superhero movie before X-Men. The only superhero movies better than Spider-Man are X-Men and X-Men 2 (and possibly The Hulk). But X-Men and Spider-Man are the movies that made the superhero genre good again.

Originally Posted by Mares

God save us from the day when patriotism is thought of as a negative quality.

You mean the quality that tells you that people born on the same side of the imaginary line that you were born on are more important than people on the other side of the imaginary line? Yeah, I'd say that's pretty negative.

mag

[LeChimp]

Have you seen Batman 1? It was pretty awesome, I could see why people would think that Batman 1 (and 2) are better than spiderman. But the series went downhill with 3 and 4.

[Kolzig]

Originally Posted by Henke

I must see it again then. You're correct, it was Cinemaware's Rocket Ranger we played. Is it about the comicbook that the movie is based on or are they totally unrelated? I remember that the game was hard as hell. We spent weeks trying to get the guy flying without crashing. With the game came this sort of spinning diagram you was suppose to use. We were only around 10 years old at the time so it toke a while to get it right.

I'm pretty sure that both the movie and the game are totally unrelated. The only things they have common are the rocket pack, world war II and the nazi threat.

And the plot for Rocket Ranger is something totally awesome, now read this, it's from the new Cinemaware's Rocket Ranger page:

Originally Posted by Cinemaware

Rocket Ranger

A Master Race from Outer Space Threatens the Free World!

With the zapping of ray guns and the cries of Zombie Women, Rocket Ranger brings all the action, romance, thrills, and spills of the Saturday morning serial! The action begins with an urgent message from the future. . . a future that saw the Nazis win Word War II! An underground group of scientists in the 21st century risk their lives to send you a jet propelled rocket suit, ray gun and secret decoder wheel. Skillfully used against a cunning and ruthless foe, these devices help you change history and save mankind!

It was a hard game, especially when my copy of the game was a pirated one

I didn't have the decoder wheel, so I had to guess the fuel amount every time, so mostly I ended up in some bizarre places instead of the right places.

And I really remember those take offs, it was so damn difficult at first, but when I did them over hundred times, I started to succeed in it.

Originally Posted by LeChimp

Have you seen Batman 1? It was pretty awesome, I could see why people would think that Batman 1 (and 2) are better than spiderman. But the series went downhill with 3 and 4.

So true, the first two Burton Batman movies are superb. Then Joel Schumacher went and destroyed everything with Batman Forever and the nipple horror Batman & Robin.

[Henke]

Mag, you must judge movies on totally opposite terms then me, ha, ha.

Originally Posted by mag

There's no way you can tell me that any Batman movie is better than Spider-Man. Frankly, there was no such thing as a good superhero movie before X-Men. The only superhero movies better than Spider-Man are X-Men and X-Men 2 (and possibly The Hulk).

You think Spiderman is better then Tim Burtons first Batman movie? You thought X-men was a good movie? (I don't even want to comment on The Hulk since 70% of that movie didn't have a story at all as far as I could see ).

Originally Posted by mag

You mean the quality that tells you that people born on the same side of the imaginary line that you were born on are more important than people on the other side of the imaginary line? Yeah, I'd say that's pretty negativ.

I think that view on the subject is partly true in all countries except the states. Because there, the only 100% true american who should be the most patriotic is the indians.

[Maquisard]

Originally Posted by mag

You mean the quality that tells you that people born on the same side of the imaginary line that you were born on are more important than people on the other side of the imaginary line? Yeah, I'd say that's pretty negative.

mag

No, you're talking about chauvinism or ultra-nationalism. Patriotism simply means loving one's own people, language & culture. It doesn't prevent you from appreciating the people, languages & cultures of other nations. I'd say hating yourself and your origins is a far more negative quality.

[scabb]

The first Spiderman film was great, even it was a little bit flawed - but the second one really did top it in every way, best film of the summer so far. I watched the cartoon religiously and read a few comics, and I had no problem with the adaption. In fact, the X-Men films took a lot more liberties with the source material, and were even better in my book.

It's not as if the first two Batman films were so amazing anyway. They were great, but not as brilliant as some might suggest.

[ConcreteRancor]

I'm going to lay off Spiderman 2, since I haven't seen it yet. (Along with Hellboy, The Rocketeer, Superman and Batman Returns, I really want to see it.) Of the comic-book movies I HAVE seen, I'll put them like this:

X2
X-men
Batman (Haven't seen ALL of it, but enough to put it on the list.)
Hulk
Spiderman
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
TMNT II
The Phantom
Batman Forever
TMNT III
Batman and Robin

Might I note that there is a LARGE gap between The Phantom and Batman Forever.

I'm not going to include non-superhero comic book movies, since they're really completely different. Hence the absence of Ghost World, which I loved, and Road to Perdition, which I didn't even realize was based on a comic. That was a VERY good movie, even if it WAS Godfather Lite.

God, I WISH some studio would let a director re-do the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. That comic has to be the best series I've ever read, and it deserves SO much better. TMNT too. Needs a remake with today's technology behind it.

[pointandcliklover]

Originally Posted by ConcreteRancor

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
TMNT II
TMNT III
. TMNT too. Needs a remake with today's technology behind it.

i was just thinking that the other day i loved those movies tho i think bringing in a 5th charcter was quite lame and anyone seen the new cartoon wat rubish change the tertles characters why dont they what happed to fighting shreeder and saving people and having awesome movies.

cowabunga dudes

[ConcreteRancor]

Originally Posted by pointandcliklover

i was just thinking that the other day i loved those movies tho i think bringing in a 5th charcter was quite lame and anyone seen the new cartoon wat rubish change the tertles characters why dont they what happed to fighting shreeder and saving people and having awesome movies.

cowabunga dudes

Okay, I'm going to address this point by point as an avid TMNT fan myself.

The 5th turtle, Venus de Milo, was in the short-lived, horrible series called The Next Mutation. Not the movies, although the series was based on them, making it a TV series based on a movie based on a TV series based on a comic book. Anything with that many "based ons" is not going to work.

The new series is, in fact, a very faithful translation of the original comic book series. (Down to individual lines, in fact. Watch the first episode and then read the very first TMNT comic book. Some scenes are identical, word for word.) In the original comic, there were no such things as Krang or Dimension X.

I actually have all 10 (!) seasons of the original TMNT TV series on DVDs,(downloaded episodes,) and I may be breaking people's hearts by saying this, but after the first two seasons, the show really was not that good. The first season had just 6 episodes, and was originally meant to be just a miniseries. Then the networks extended it, and the second series tried to stay faithful to the story while still being fresh. And it worked, for a while.

Eventually, the writers had to add a new character, device, or location every episode (sometimes all three at once) in order to keep it fresh, and it turned into the half-hour advertisement for toys that kept it running for the remaining 7 seasons. And for every Baxter Flyman and Leatherhead, there were 10 Mutagen Men or Triceratons. Anyone remember those latter characters? Of course the advertisements worked; we all bought the toys. It's just that the show really wasn't any good. The turtles even stopped using their weapons, doing tricks instead like hitting people with pizzas and pulling rugs out from under Shredder's feet. In the end, Michelangelo's nunchukas were replaced by a grappling hook and the series just took a nosedive from there.

Long post, I know, but I watch the new series too, and I think I can honestly say that it's better overall than the old series. (Except for the first, 6-episode season.)

[Royal Fool]

ConcreteRancor, my thoughts exactly. The original TMNT cartoons really started going downhill when one of the Turtles' friends, Irma, was enlarged and was stomping around New York. Sure, the show had taken a lot of liberties before, but good lord... and they kinda doomed themselves by getting rid of Shredder and Krang, two very lovable villains, and throwing in that Dregg guy instead.

The new cartoon is very loyal to the source material, at least what I've seen of it (Only the first season, gotta check out season two soon) and it's a much more dark and mature take on the turtles as well.

[mag]

Originally Posted by LeChimp

Have you seen Batman 1? It was pretty awesome, I could see why people would think that Batman 1 (and 2) are better than spiderman. But the series went downhill with 3 and 4.

I don't understand why everybody thinks the first two Batman movies are so great. I actually watched the first Batman again recently. I was kind of young the first time I saw it. And since everybody kept telling me about how great it was I figured maybe I wasn't remembering it correctly. Nope. Still crap. The only thing I can figure is that the "greatness" of the first two movies is in comparison to Batman & Robin. After all, there is such a huge difference between Batman and Batman & Robin that Batman, while merely tolerable by normal standards, comes off looking like one of the best films ever made.

Originally Posted by Henke

I think that view on the subject is partly true in all countries except the states. Because there, the only 100% true american who should be the most patriotic is the indians.

Well geeze, if we're going to go that far back, why stop there? After all, we all started out in Africa.

Originally Posted by Mares

No, you're talking about chauvinism or ultra-nationalism. Patriotism simply means loving one's own people, language & culture. It doesn't prevent you from appreciating the people, languages & cultures of other nations. I'd say hating yourself and your origins is a far more negative quality.

Patriotism is just a nice way of saying nationalism. But they mean the same thing. Yes, patriotism means loving your own people. You feel a special bond with people of the same "nation" (a wonderfully ambiguous term). But the implication there is that you don't feel that bond with people of other nations. So patriotism tells me that I should be more concerned about the welfare of a total stranger 2000 miles away in California than I should be about a total stranger 600 miles away in Quebec.

mag

[ConcreteRancor]

Originally Posted by Royal Fool

ConcreteRancor, my thoughts exactly. The original TMNT cartoons really started going downhill when one of the Turtles' friends, Irma, was enlarged and was stomping around New York. Sure, the show had taken a lot of liberties before, but good lord... and they kinda doomed themselves by getting rid of Shredder and Krang, two very lovable villains, and throwing in that Dregg guy instead.

The new cartoon is very loyal to the source material, at least what I've seen of it (Only the first season, gotta check out season two soon) and it's a much more dark and mature take on the turtles as well.

Irma had to be the single most annoying character on that show, bar none. April should have hired her a male stripper just to shut her the hell up about men.

And the reason they got rid of Shredder and Krang was that they'd completely exhausted the well of semi-plausible ways for them to keep failing after 700 attempts at taking over the world with near-infinite technology.

[Maquisard]

Originally Posted by mag

Patriotism is just a nice way of saying nationalism. But they mean the same thing. Yes, patriotism means loving your own people. You feel a special bond with people of the same "nation" (a wonderfully ambiguous term).

Nation--an ethnos, people of same origin, language & culture. There's a special place in my heart for Serbs because I can best understand their language, best relate and communicate with them. There's a special place in my heart for Serbian food and drink, because it tastes like home. However I love hearing the French language and French music. I love Arabic food. I appreciate Koreans for being a friendly and generous. On the other extreme, the Japanese are somber, but there's an admirable dignity about them.

Originally Posted by mag

But the implication there is that you don't feel that bond with people of other nations. So patriotism tells me that I should be more concerned about the welfare of a total stranger 2000 miles away in California than I should be about a total stranger 600 miles away in Quebec.

Hmmm....Not true: remember when those two planes hit the twin towers? It happened 2000 miles away from me to 5000 total strangers, and I was very concerned about it. Back in my country someone wrote an article titled "Today we're all American."

[Kaparen]

Originally Posted by Mares

Hmmm....Not true: remember when those two planes hit the twin towers? It happened 2000 miles away from me to 5000 total strangers, and I was very concerned about it. Back in my country someone wrote an article titled "Today we're all American."

..and today we´re all Iraqi

[Maquisard]

hehe! sure.

[mag]

Originally Posted by Mares

There's a special place in my heart for Serbs because I can best understand their language, best relate and communicate with them. There's a special place in my heart for Serbian food and drink, because it tastes like home. However I love hearing the French language and French music. I love Arabic food. I appreciate Koreans for being a friendly and generous. On the other extreme, the Japanese are somber, but there's an admirable dignity about them.

That right there is exactly the problem with patriotism. It tells you that you are more similar to some stranger in your own country than you are to some stranger in a different country. And that sort of thinking in which you tell yourself that your group is different from all those other groups is the basis of every prejudice in history.

Originally Posted by Mares

Hmmm....Not true: remember when those two planes hit the twin towers? It happened 2000 miles away from me to 5000 total strangers, and I was very concerned about it. Back in my country someone wrote an article titled "Today we're all American."

Yet as a patriot, you would be more disturbed by the same attack if it had happened in Belgrade instead of New York. Because you have a love of country. So even though you might still feel sympathy for foreigners, other Serbians will always come first because they happened to be born on the same side of the imaginary line as you were.

mag

[100ja a.k.a. mr_mitja]

Originally Posted by mag

I don't understand why everybody thinks the first two Batman movies are so great. I actually watched the first Batman again recently. I was kind of young the first time I saw it. And since everybody kept telling me about how great it was I figured maybe I wasn't remembering it correctly. Nope. Still crap. The only thing I can figure is that the "greatness" of the first two movies is in comparison to Batman & Robin. After all, there is such a huge difference between Batman and Batman & Robin that Batman, while merely tolerable by normal standards, comes off looking like one of the best films ever made.

It's Tim Burton for me. The atmosphere is just the way it should be, not that crappy Joel Schumacher one. Next, Jack Nicholson Is the KING! As is Jack Palance! And Keaton is by far the best Batman of all (tied with Adam West, naturally )