[Antrax]

I honestly don't get the complaints (or compliments) about "impossible" or even "numerous" puzzles in Myst. Return to Zork was indeed difficult, mostly because of the dead ends. However, factually speaking, in Myst there really isn't that much that needs to be done to "win". All the ages are unlocked in the exact same manner. The red and blue pages in every age are unlocked together, so it's a matter of doing the "return to Myst" puzzles twice, and that's only semi-difficult (more like time consuming if you catch a subtle point) on the rocketship age.

Tell me where my count goes wrong:
You have one puzzle to solve on Myst in order to unlock all the ages (I don't count entering combinations that are given to you as a puzzle).
In channelwood, you have exactly one puzzle in order to get both pages AND return to Myst. Granted, you use the same mechanism to do all sorts of actions, but using it to do A isn't really different from using it to do B, it doesn't require additional thought once you figure it out once.
In the gears age, you have one semi-puzzle (it's just incredibly straightforward) in order to unlock both pages, and then one puzzle in order to return to Myst.
In the rocketship age, you get the pages for free but it takes two puzzles to return to Myst.
Lastly, in the stoneship age (my favourite), you have two puzzles to reach the pages, and another one to return to Myst.
So, 9 puzzles if I'm being generous. Everything else that needs to be unlocked is simply writing down the clearly important information you find along the way (which is always very apparent), and using it where the place you found it at indicates. You use the information about keyboard keys where you find the keyboard, and you enter the dates you are given to the date-o-matic machine. There's no lateral thinking, like entering someone's birthday on the date-o-matic, and having that birthday mentioned casually in his diary or something similar. It's all very straightforward. That's why I'm looking forward to playing Riven - I have hopes that the fact everything is interconnected will make it less obvious where to use what information.

[Fien]

Aha, there they are, our beloved Myst-haters. I was wondering what kept you so long this time. Don't you always come crawling out of the woodwork whenever you hear the magical word MYYYYYYST whispered, like moths to the flame? You really deserve a thread of your own, where you can curse and rant to your heart's content and agree with your fellow-haters how that awful Myst killed the adventure genre.

[Antrax]

What did that have to do with anything?

[Fien]

You may not have been around long enough, but I have seen far, far too many pointless Ugh-I-hate-Myst posts like the ones in this thread.

[Fien]

BTW, I don't share your view of puzzles. For instance, you don't count combinations which are given to you as a puzzle. But when a combination is mentioned casually, you consider that "lateral thinking". I would call that entering something in the hope of hitting the jackpot, the trial-and-error kind of entering.

I've been doing some mental calculations and by your way of counting (not mine), Riven has even fewer different "real" puzzles. Seven or eight. Of course, you could also say it's one giant mother puzzle with seven or eight little ones.

PS: But many if not most of them require some lateral thinking, by my definition.

[Antrax]

The date users joined the forum is written beneath their user names.

This is actually an important point, so thanks for bringing it up. You're saying that by my way of counting, Riven actually has less mechanisms that you need to learn to operate than Myst had? I assumed they added puzzles because of an earlier poster saying it took them months to finish the game.
By the way, it's funny, but by your definition I guess I enjoy a certain amount of trial-and-error. I definitely wouldn't like a game that forces me to brute-force a combination, but I find things like the "spell the magic word" puzzle from Safecracker (the second one) to be quite enjoyable. They give you that "Aha!" moment that I personally don't get by writing down a set of notes and then reproducing it when obviously applicable.

[Fien]

Originally Posted by Antrax

The date users joined the forum is written beneath their user names.

Yeah, so? That date means exactly nothing.

This is actually an important point, so thanks for bringing it up. You're saying that by my way of counting, Riven actually has less mechanisms that you need to learn to operate than Myst had?

Oh, there's lots and lots of other minor stuff. Things like pulling levers, see what they do, push buttons, manipulate this and that. You know the works. And the clues to the more complex puzzles are scattered all over the place, so you really have to do the lever-and-button stuff plus lateral thinking. Don't worry, you won't be able to finish Riven in one or two sittings.

I'd be interested to know how you liked Riven when you've played it. Even if you hated it. As long as you explain why.

PS: I finished Riven in one week. But... I needed a hint to one puzzle and with hindsight I know I would never, and I mean never, have figured it out by myself.

[DustyShinigami]

Originally Posted by Fien

Aha, there they are, our beloved Myst-haters. I was wondering what kept you so long this time. Don't you always come crawling out of the woodwork whenever you hear the magical word MYYYYYYST whispered, like moths to the flame? You really deserve a thread of your own, where you can curse and rant to your heart's content and agree with your fellow-haters how that awful Myst killed the adventure genre.

Well, I don't consider myself as one of those that hate Myst. I just don't like them. And I certainly don't think the games killed the genre.

[Mohlin]

Originally Posted by Antrax

That's why I'm looking forward to playing Riven - I have hopes that the fact everything is interconnected will make it less obvious where to use what information.

You will LOVE Riven. Absolutely nothing is obvious in that game.

[Christian IV]

ys, back to the topic ...Riven is quite differnt from Myst, and has a lot more going on...you will enjoy it i think ...and let us know if you need any help installing or running it

[thejobloshow]

Nah, Myst did not kill adventure. Riven has a lot more going for it but again, it's Myst 2. You can not escape that - the sequels are essentially the same thing with a more polished exterior. I had more fun playing Prince Interactive.

[kadji-kun]

Isnt most games just the same thing with a more polished exterior?

I really have to say that no game can really compare to the puzzles in the Myst series. These puzzles require long term thought and actual investigation to solve. Unlike most adventure games (find object, combine object, use object) which require nothing more than common sense (usually, unless a game used no logic whatsoever, lol). I miss Long Term puzzles. They are severely underrated and don't occur all that often.

[Fien]

Originally Posted by thejobloshow

...but again, it's Myst 2. You can not escape that - the sequels are essentially the same thing with a more polished exterior.

Heh... isn't that the whole point of sequels? Personally I would be flabbergasted if all of a sudden Monkey Island #xx was no longer about pirates and Guybrush/Elaine/LeChuck.

[Fantasysci5]

I'd say if you were indifferent to Myst, to give Riven a try. But if you hated it, it is in the same vein as Myst.

I liked Myst enough, but hated how hard the puzzles were. I had to use a walkthrough the whole way through, because I liked the story/characters, and didn't want to give up on it. Once I played Riven, I fell in love with the series. So I'm not sure if you'd like Riven if you hated Myst, since it is more of the "same thing" pretty much. I just thought it was more polished, interesting, etc. If you didn't like the puzzles in Myst, though, Riven's puzzles are harder, so if you really didn't like the 1st one, I'd caution on trying the 2nd one. But then again, I didn't like Gabriel Knight 1, but loved the 2nd one...

[Mohlin]

Fantasysci5, have you replayed Myst after you fell in love? I mean - did it change the way you look at the game (the series)?

Riven's puzzles ar much harder, but in a different way. Myst's was more of the obvious type "here and now" (punch a code, turn a tower, pull a lever), but with Riven....

Maybe I should give it a new try. After Lost Souls.

[CrimsonBlue]

Myst - Masterpiece Edition (brilliant name, eh?) is not available on GOG.com, and I just bought it earlier today. I've tried playing a couple of times on at least two different formats, but never on PC. The first time I tried Myst was on the Amiga, and the second was on the DS. The DS one was horrible, close to impossible to read the text and the graphics just didn't work on that little machine.

But as I said, bought it today, tried it, once again I didn't "get" it, as some people would say. I think I get it, but there just seems to be no clue whatsoever what I'm supposed to be doing. Also, I think I got stuck in a room, are dead ends possible in this game?

Anyway, what's the best tip you can give one that's trying to get into Myst one last time?

[Fantasysci5]

Originally Posted by Mohlin

Fantasysci5, have you replayed Myst after you fell in love? I mean - did it change the way you look at the game (the series)?

Riven's puzzles ar much harder, but in a different way. Myst's was more of the obvious type "here and now" (punch a code, turn a tower, pull a lever), but with Riven....

Maybe I should give it a new try. After Lost Souls.

Yes, I've replayed Myst many times afterwards. It gave me a better loving of Myst, since I was indifferent to it the first time, but once I read the books, and heard so much about the background story and characters, and the graphics were so beautiful, I just used a walkthrough and didn't stress myself about the puzzles.

It does change the way I look at the series, at least a little bit. The problem I have with the Myst series, even though it's one of my favorites, is that there's so much backstory about it, yet we only get the tiniest taste in the games. I didn't really love the games until I went online and saw all of the extras I missed, and all of the backstory not told. Myst is one of my favorite games now, too. I think it's because I learned more about the stories.

It's actually Myst: Revelation that's got me in the series; I don't like it. I can't even get that far into it, I lost interest. *shock gasp horror* And everyone loves it, and I love the brothers, and I still can't get into it...

And yes, after Lost Souls!

[Christian IV]

I will tell you something funny about Myst IV, Revelations, Rand himself cant get past the part where "he" as Atrus is instructing (lecturing, scolding....) the player about adjusting the slider. He, Rand was laughing about that just this summer at the annual Mysterium meeting which visited Cyan HQ and he had a great Q and A...we all had a good laugh about that.

I LOVE the start of Myst IV where we get to see the house, but i kinda lost interest in some of the tougher puzzles in the game and had real trouble with what the brothers were up to later on in the game... but i agree about the backstory and how it is hard at times to really "get" it from just the games.... but hopefully that will improve once we get MOUL up and running again and can work to get more of the story out of Cyan ...they have, according to Rand, a huge amount of story and events that is to come.... and they hope to do add on ages for URU thesmelves to help get the story out..if things in the economy improve and their new game work goes well.

[Antrax]

Mohlin, thanks a lot, that cinched it for me. I'll try Riven.

Crimsonblue, no dead ends. You are probably at the beginning. For some inexplicable reason, the design they chose is that you have to figure out one single "puzzle" (basically a mechanism) and use it to get information on how to proceed to the different ages (so you would use it the same way a couple of times, each time giving it an input of where you want to go, and getting as an output the code needed to get there). So, there is no point in tinkering with other things at this juncture - you will be spoon-fed the solutions to everything on the first island once you figure out how to get started. And if you're anything like me, what you're stuck on is an issue with the confusing interface, that's stopping you from seeing a screen you can get to.
So, following are three hints at what you need to do, at increasing spoilage levels:
1.

Spoiler:

Everything you need is either at, or accessible from within, the library

2.

Spoiler:

Note that there are two ladders from the "secret door"

3.

Spoiler:

When the front of the tower shows a place, the back of the tower shows how to get there

If you're anything like me, once you get past this first hurdle, the rest of the game is rather simple, puzzle-wise.

[Lee in Limbo]

Hmmn. Bit of thread derailing argument over some less-than-delicate phrasing. I actually couldn't get through it all. I apologize.

Myst was probably the very first adventure game I ever completed. It completely drew me in. I look back on it now, with it's low-rez graphics, crunchy Quicktime film clips and its slightly clumsy nodal point-and-click navigation, and I can see why newer, more modern AGers might find this game hard to appreciate. My sense of nostalgia can't cover up the fact that just about every other entry into the series (and a fair number of legendary Myst clones as well) were technically, graphically and sonically superior. However, it was utterly unique in its day, and changed video games radically.

As for Riven, I would have to say that it is Myst x10. If you liked anything about Myst, Riven does it better. Bigger, meaner puzzles, slicker, more immersive graphics and environments, better sound, better animation, better cutscenes, the works. Even the writing is better. That said, Riven doesn't touch me quite the same way that Myst does. It's not that it is in any way inferior to Myst. It has everything right down to the mystique and the mood. It certainly doesn't lack heart. It simply felt far more impenetrable, and really set the tone for future puzzle games. Where Myst felt like a fun little exploration, Riven felt like work. Glorious work, but work, nonetheless. Even when you knew the answer (or thought you did), you could still get it wrong, because there were so many parts to pretty much every puzzle, and by the end, you were almost fed up with turning one more steam valve to reach one more walkway and change one more coloured knickknack.

That said, it really is a brilliant game, and if you get the opportunity to play it (and can get it to run on your system), you owe it to yourself to give it a spin, just to see what digital near-perfection looked and felt like in 1995.