Is there a point to playing Riven if I hated Myst?
 

Yes, I'm sorry. I know it's a classic, but the game is essentially a couple of puzzles (I didn't count, but no more than 10), and not very fun or challenging ones at that. That's another discussion. The point is I really didn't enjoy it because the controls were terrible (you never know how much you turned your head after clicking, you have no clue if you continued "forward right" or "forward left" if you clicked somewhere inbetween, etc) and the whole game felt very... abrupt. There wasn't any real connection between puzzles in different ages, so there was no feel of progression.

So, is Riven similar to Myst in that regard, or have they changed the control scheme, added puzzles and worked the plot into the story, rather than it being a bunch of movies where people say "bring me more pages" with a low sound volume?

I have to say the sound in that game, I had so much trouble understanding these damn people. I watched the intro so many times just to figure out what he mumbles out through all the distortion :frown:

Sughly lol. You know I want to try it now just to see for myself ;)

I got Myst and Riven when I was about 14, and I never got further in Myst than that first little hut with the books in. The people in the blue and red book freaked me out, I couldn't work out what I was doing, and I didn't like that there were no people saying 'I'll give you the thimble if you go and get the cat out of the tree' etc. (Yes I grew up playing Sierra http://adventuregamers.com/forums/im...ilies/wink.gif) I never even tried Riven. But a friend got Myst on the DS and I tried it. I still didn't get any further than the first hut with books, but I was quite interested in reading them all. I think I am going to try Myst and Riven again when I get back to my PC...

Hmmm... I LOVED Myst, and sort of hated Riven. Not as much as Exile (# 3), but close enough.

A lot of people regard Riven as the Masterpiece, and it is truly beautiful.

But.
Riven is HUGE!! 4-5 discs. Regard it as one big puzzle, most things fit together somehow.
The thing I didn't like about it was that it is spread out over 5 (?) islands (4 "worlds" and 1 "main").
As you advance in the game you find out that you need for example 5 symbols. So you have to search all islands to find the symbols. And change discs as you travel between the islands. OK, you have the symbols. Then you need a color-code. The different colors can be found on the five islands. So, you have to search each island again - and change discs between... and so on and so on.

Of course you pick up things as you go, but as always, you have 3 of the 4 clues, and where is the 4th?

A lot of paitence is needed. I never finisheed it...

It's out on DVD-ROM now, and besides, with modern hard drives, there is no disc-swapping whatsoever.

It took me buying the anniversary DVD edition of Myst/Riven/Exile to realize that I hated Myst, and I hated Riven even more. I never even bothered trying Exile.

Riven is a masterpiece. Though people need to understand that most masterpieces will be misunderstood by people who don't understand it.

I loved the Myst series. I too play the first game when I was 13. I found it to be the only game that truly throws you into an adventure, without some unusual narrator sounding from the heavens, or an arrow always pointing you into a direction.

I want to say, no one can say it isn't one of the best Adventure games for the very fact it is the essence of an adventure. Think about it. Do you always have direction when you explore a recently dug Aztec tomb? Do you have an arrow always telling you what to do? No, of course not.

Riven had everything Myst had, but with the addition of a more expanded world. Yes, Riven was beautiful, but it had far more unique look than any of the Myst games thereafter. The puzzles were ingenious and hard. This very fact doesn't make the game horrible. It just means it requires "REAL" skill just to beat the game. Not button mashing, not headshots, not useless/pointless items to open a blocked door. All the information is there. You just have to read/understand them.

I would like to say that Riven is definitely richer, more coherent, more challenging, more clearly about something, and just plain better than Myst.

However, I think Myst was really about something, too, specifically about finding out what had happened in those places you found yourself in.

In Riven, you have the sense of a real place that could actually exist, and something is clearly going on there. Myst is more fragmented.

Oh and the backstory to the Myst island is great. So much detail. Who said beauty only existed in visuals.

Myst made you feel special. The adventure felt exclusive to only you. As if you were the first person to go on this journey. This is why I felt URU killed the series.

"Will be misunderstood by people who don't understand it"? deep. I personally don't understand why people feel the need to belittle the opinions of those who disagree with them.
However, hearing how great Myst is and how wrong I am for disliking it is not what I'm about right now, so I'll refrain from commenting.

Thanks for the feedback. If I understood correctly, some of the issues weren't fixed (same confusing interface) but some were (puzzle solutions aren't always in the next screen, so puzzles are deeper than "figure out a single mechanism and use it repeatedly"). I'm still curious about the plot. In Myst you had the Gibsonesque "throw you in the middle of things", followed by no story unfolding, and then a big "reveal everything" scene. Is Riven similar in that regard (no plot development in exchange for perfect non-linearity) or is it more like a traditional story telling game?

Hehehe.... that's great stuff, puts a big smile on my face. Our once world-famous Dutch soccer player Cruyff says things like that all the time and everybody loves him for it, whether they agree with him or not: "You can only understand it when you get it." :D So don't ever change, Kadji-Kun, you're as passionate as he is. As arrogant too, but that's fine, gives us non-arrogant mortals that nice righteous feeling of moral superiority. :devil: Cruyff puts it so well: "I hardly ever go wrong because it's very hard for me to make mistakes".

About Riven...
Yes, it has more story than Myst. You'll meet more people in cut scenes, but you can't interact with them. Riven is not nearly as nonlinear as Myst. You have to do things in the right order to gain access to new locations and gather clues all over the place for later puzzles. If you thought the Myst puzzles easy you'll be happy to know that there are some very hard ones in Riven. The rides from island to island are lovely, Riven is an immensely beautiful place, alive with creatures and people, and you can end the game in ten different ways.

But of course it all boils down to: are you the type of gamer who enjoys lonely first-person exploration, mechanical/logic non-inventory puzzles, and reading books and documents.

And please don't forget: “Listen, if I wanted you to understand it all, I would have explained it better…” (Cruyff) ;)

You really need to be in the right "mood" to enjoy these games.

I started with Myst several years ago and I stopped playing fast because I was bored out of my mind then a couple of years later (2005 i think), I bought the trilogy on DVD for like 10$ and I was blown away by Myst. The back story, the puzzles, the music, all the little details. :crazy: I have no idea how that happen.

Then, I played Riven and to this day it's the most engrossing gaming experience I ever had. It was magical. EVERYTHING on the island is connected somehow.

I bought the book "From Myst to Riven" on ebay for 100$ and the amount of work they did on Riven is astonishing, I missed so many details when I played it. Riven was high art, a real achievement.

I still get goosebumps when I think of Riven, it's up there with masterpieces like Okami, Shadow of the Colossus and BioShock.

I never played the other games in the series but I bought them all on sale, I'm just not in the "mood" to play them.

I didn't like Myst, but liked Riven and Exile.

I liked how I'm being mocked over what I said. Is not not true that a person can only understand something only when they actually have the knowledge needed to understand it? It doesn't even belittle anyone else's opinions.

Its like saying that an apple is like an orange, because it is round, therefore if you don't like oranges, you won't like an apple. Not until you actually try the apple and understand its features will you actually enjoy/dislike it.

Is that so hard to understand? Or is it that I'm completely arrogant and that people just think i'm on some sort of high horse?

Funny, because i've said I was wrong plenty of times before.

I'm not about to try and throw fuel in the fire, but even though you don't mean anything by it the line 'Though people need to understand that most masterpieces will be misunderstood by people who don't understand it' kind of implies to a lot of people that you know more than them and that's why you can appreciate it more. And I don't think people like that implication.

I think Fien's on the money when he/she says it all boils down to whether you're the type of gamer who 'enjoys lonely first-person exploration, mechanical/logic non-inventory puzzles, and reading books and documents'.

No doubt Fien is right. Its like calling the "Mona Lisa" a masterpiece, while many who don't like art call it shit. Does it make it any less of a masterpiece? You may not like Lonely Adventure games, but it still doesn't make it any less of excellence.

Myst isn't my cup of tea really. It takes too long to tell a story. I'm just arguing the fact that it is a masterpiece. It does what it is suppose to do REALLY well. Its common sense that masterpieces WILL be misunderstood because people usually never see things for there details and content. Yet, i'm mocked for this!

Kadji, I also mocked "us non-arrogant mortals". :P

This player heard the clock tick, but doesn’t know what time it is. (Cruyff)

What a meanie. :P

Bullshit, you're not mocked for this. You were "mocked" because your though people need to understand that most masterpieces will be misunderstood by people who don't understand it was clear as mud and came across as arrogant.

PS: Absolute standards? Not for me, thanks.

I don't understand how that is clear as mud. All I said is that people won't understand why it is called a masterpiece. THAT'S ALL. The only reason why people need to realize that is to avoid argument....yet, when I say that, I start my own argument.