[Terramax]

What I cannot get is if this person has such a great understanding that he/she likes games with multiple choice, why this person didn't read the possible hundreds of reviews before buying some of these games.

Games with choice of puzzle solving is an issue/ debate that's been on this forum before. If this person had supposedly prowled this forum for a long while then surely they would have already had a good idea of games to buy and play?

[Cage]

I usually think I'm very picky with adventure games, but sometimes it seems more of I don't know what the hell I want. But that usually goes along with story, and the puzzles that surround the game.

I DO know I like point and click, it seems like I have more time to judge whats in front of me. When I have to use keys to navigate, I feel so much more rushed and there seems to be so many more variables. Which isn't always a BAD thing, but it can be quite overwhelming.

I'm also a fan of 2-D ones as well, again, everything just seems more under control. Rather than 3-D where I find myself getting lost a lot, and that may be just because I have a poor skill level with those kinds of games. So, meh.

However I can agree with the OP's claim with some puzzles in adventure games. Especially mainstream ones, which bug me the most. It just seems like the creators are so much more concerned about the game looking pretty, rather than the game being smart and fun to play. And some MS games to me are smart, but most of the time... unrealistically smart.

For example, Evidence. At first glance at the game, and reading the story, it comes off as intriguing. My brother bought me the game because he knows I'm really the whole who-dun-it games, horror, mystery, etc. So he read the back, saw some pictures, and the game comes packaged all fancy. BUT, the game is just strictly puzzles. Like a crazy, 3-D board-game that didn't come with the rules book. Some of the puzzles were smart, but had me on the verge of throwing my computer out the window. For instance, there was one puzzle where I had to check my email (which WAS a neat concept, how you received emails from the murderer, and other bots), read some message, and figure out some keywords. Google that keyword, find the correct link to some historical article, then Google-map that, and find the town it's located in...UGH!!!

Don't get me wrong, I like digging up clues as much as the next guy, but when it comes to playing the game out of frustration to figure out ONE piece of the puzzle, versus playing it to see what happens next, I'm ready to throw that stuff out.

One of the worst parts about that is, it doesn't really advance the story-line or plot at all.. for me. I just don't get it. I know not ALL games are like that, but gets lame when I go to a store to check out games, and all the ones I see are like that.. same kind of formula.

I will say thank goodness for this forum and the users on here to point me in a direction of games that I can enjoy. Someone stated earlier, Barrow Hill, is a good one to check out. And so far, totally is. No impossible to find clues, point and click, neat story, puzzles that RELATE to the story and unravel more clues, and just plain fun. (rather than puzzles that involve giving you some stupid object once you solve a specific puzzle, resulting in you using the item ONE TIME hours into the game, and by that time you forget where the freaking object came from... *exhale*)

Lastly, in all seriousness, I hope I don't piss anyone off with my opinion, I'm just really stern on my taste. Haha.

[Terramax]

Combining the para before the last with your avatar pic, I couldn't think how anyone would think you were out to piss anyone off - joke XD

[Wormsie]

Originally Posted by andii

So I'm giving up on the adventure gaming. I may revisit it in the future, Experinence112 looks interesting and Grey Matter might be worth a play, Jane Jenson's work on the whole is pretty good.

It's Jensen. Sure, Le Serpent Rouge in GK3 was pretty good, but the "use syrup and cat hair to make a fake mustache even though Mosely doesn't have one" -puzzle is generally considered one of the worst puzzles ever.

I sort of know how you feel, though I was mad enough to enjoy TLJ and Grim and the others. Therefore I suggest at least the following games: Psychonauts and Beyond Good & Evil.

[ozzie]

To Jane's defense, she didn't design that puzzle. At least the technical lead said that.
Some obsessed Gabriel Knight fan made a whole article out of it.

[misslilo]

However, if I see that I have a candle and a match, I expect they will be used in conjunction with one another if the game follows that realistic reasonability. What I don't expect is to use the candle to reach a high object on a shelf and then use the match to poke someones eye out without any clue as to the possibilty of those given actions. Those kind of puzzles irk me like none other and do not rightly belong in an adventure game, or any game to be exact.

LOL. That is so true. And your point made me laugh
I absolute hate those puzzles... makes no sense at all.

Then again, it all depends of what kind of adventure game it is.
In a game like Simon the Sorcere one would expect these kind of puzzles and therefor it's sort of ok.

I am one of the oldtimers, when it comes to adventure..
I loved the GK series, especially GK2, because you got sucked into the story and the characters. We hardly see this anymore.
Although, Runaway 1 + 2 may come close. The lead character is funny and we feel we know him.

[andii]

Originally Posted by TangentBlack

Hopefully Andii will specify as to the reasons he disliked Grim. I am trying to keep my personal feelings out of the matter considering it is my favorite video game I have ever been privledged to play, but I am sure they are the only thing that is pushing me to understand his opinion.

Its been years since I played it so my memory is a bit fuzzy. The reason I disliked it was by the time I got to the forest, the game just felt like work. There was just too many roadblocks in the way, it simply stopped being fun.

[Saturn]

I loved TLJ (and hated Dreamfall). It was no where near an inventory combine-a-thon as you make it sound. Nor was it unlogical comapred to other games i played.

Games just need to strike the balance. I don't want games without gameplay, a.ka dreamfall but i also don't want with outragous puzzles.

That said, the most important asepct in adventure game for me is the story, but more espicially it's the main character. I want a nice character that is written and voice-acted well. If that is present, it will likely to carry me throgh the game.

But i do want puzzles, and good ones, i don't want to hurl my character thruogh loading screens to the next bit of story. I want to be challenged.

The interactivity of adventure games has to increase also. In this day and age you have to. I would want to see a branch in the genre that will have alot more deatail and options , a full 3d game with full character control with the stress on exploring and discovery combined with puzzles.
With today's capabillities it can be marvellous.

Interactivity can be achieved via writing as well. Aside from non-linear gameplay and stroy progression, even something like alot of dialogue and comments by the player character when combining unexpected stuff or alot of variations in clicking the same thing would alot alot, it shows that thought has been put in the game, plus it adds to the comedy and enjoyment.

I really do wish we see some new branches in the genre but i also want to keep the variety. I'm ready to play P&C , 1st person, full control and etc. I don't want the genre to be dominated by one mindset like the casual mindset of dumbing down and stripping the games.

[Tyler_Legrand]

Originally Posted by andii

Its been years since I played it so my memory is a bit fuzzy. The reason I disliked it was by the time I got to the forest, the game just felt like work. There was just too many roadblocks in the way, it simply stopped being fun.

Did you at least laugh when Glottis pulled out his own heart?

[AprilLives]

Originally Posted by Saturn

I loved TLJ (and hated Dreamfall). It was no where near an inventory combine-a-thon as you make it sound. Nor was it unlogical comapred to other games i played.

Couldn't agree more about this and your remarks that followed. I think your points explain well what an adventure gamers usually wants. As for TLJ, the original, it has stood the test of time. When I revisit the video clips and listen to the music, it is still superior to many of the newer games ... and that is a shame and weird. Don't really know why many game makers don't really get adverture game players. Or maybe we're just too diverse. Anyway, you said it all very well.

[Gorecki]

Originally Posted by tolworthy

I'd be happy to play a game without a single puzzle, as long as the story was good.

In that case you should plough on through TLJ and play Dreamfall, a game with no puzzles whatsoever and a fantastic story!

[andii]

Originally Posted by Tyler_Legrand

Did you at least laugh when Glottis pulled out his own heart?

i don't remember. Or I did not get to it.

[Jake]

Though game-for-game I like quite a few of the games andii's discussed in a negative context, I do agree with a lot of his general sentiment about adventure games.

It really frustrates me that so much of adventure gaming is about impeding the plot by telling you "no" over and over. If your game is nothing but a good story that is impeded over and over by people telling you that you can't progress to the next point in the story because they're an unreasonable bastard, or because some piece of machinery is broken... there's only so much of that you can take before wanting to just sort of chuck your PC out the window.

"I have the amulet which you seek, but before I share its secrets with you, I need you to find my two missing chickens, and some spice for the soup I'm making. One of the chickens will probably be just outside the house and easily obtained to give you a bit of gratification and to show you the ropes of how this is going to work, but the other one has been captured by a cave troll who you will need to find within a maze. The maze is guarded by a man who will only let you in if you sing him a happy song which reminds him of his three favorite childhood memories (memories you can only find out about by walking through town asking every shopkeeper and street begger if they are aquainted with the guard, and whether or not they feel like dropping you a veiled allusion to his youth in seemingly unrelated chit chat). The spice can be purchased from the store down the street, which is conveniently closed due to totally arbitrary store hours. Time will have passed the exact amount so that the store is open when you come back to the town after -- and only after -- you have completed the cave troll puzzle... Did I say 'puzzle?' I mean, 'compelling point in a non-ridiculous and overwrought gated narrative.'"

[Periglo]

Originally Posted by Gorecki

In that case you should plough on through TLJ and play Dreamfall, a game with no puzzles whatsoever and a fantastic story!

You could also use hints or walkthroughs liberally, as (confession time) I do. That way you can enjoy good stories and get rid of the puzzles. Like, e.g., Scratches.

[Luther10]

I thought most adventure games are linear. YOu finish up one puzzle and you move onto another. Broken Sword, Grim Fandango, Sanitarium, Syberia, Runaway, Black Dahlia, Gabriel Knight..., they are all linear. So why single out Longest Journey and make a fuss? Why not just look at some hints on the net when you get stuck and continue onward?

[Jake]

I think his reasoning for "singling out" the Longest Journey was that that specific game, for him, was "the last straw."