12-26-2005, 06:21 AM | #21 | |
El Luchador
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I prefer the floppy intro (which isn't so much and intro, just starts off with a helicopter crashing). Much more mysterious. Still cliché. But it just feels less tacky. The only thing that's weird in the floppy version is his need to repair Joey, since you've never, ever seen Joey or know at all what he is. Granted, I don't know much about the plot as a whole, but that intro doesn't feel so important.
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Use Verb On Noun - Adventure game inspired illustrations |
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12-26-2005, 06:24 AM | #22 | ||
Not like them!
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"Hey, why's no alarm going off? Isn't anyone watching the camera? Huh, I guess not, or maybe it's being watched by someone on my side I haven't heard of yet. Either way, obviously there's nothing to worry about, or else I'd be dead by now." "Joey unlocking the door like that is straight out of Empire Strikes Back! Is this the extent of his function in the game- opening a door, fixing a robot?" "Hey, who's this guy? Oh, he's dead now. OK." Quote:
What do you guys think of the puzzles? I'm hardly qualified to judge them, since I hate the typical adventure puzzles and these are as typical as they come. |
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12-26-2005, 06:32 AM | #23 | |
El Luchador
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Use Verb On Noun - Adventure game inspired illustrations |
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12-26-2005, 07:15 AM | #24 | ||||||
Diva of Death
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I assumed Reich himself had been watching the camera somehow, or perhaps one of Reich's flunkies. Either way, why set off an alarm? He's just going to go down there and shoot/apprehend Foster, after all, and Foster's unarmed. Quote:
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As for the latter, that's another thing I like about Joey... he's useful for solving puzzles, unlike some near-useless sidekicks in other games (*cough*King's Quest V*cough*). Quote:
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Now that you're a full-grown man, someone who seemingly does know who you were (or thinks he does, anyway) thinks you're important enough to come out to the Gap, and kidnap you to his city. So... I'm at a loss as to why you wouldn't be curious about your past, seeing as how it's seemingly the entire reason you're now stranded in the city. The Overmann bit is just a new clue in the puzzle. (I.E. you now know who they were looking for, although it doesn't mean anything to you right at the moment.) Of course, there's lots of other things to be curious about as well up until this point. These are some of the questions I can come with for even just this small first part of the game: Why were you on that helicopter? Where was it going? Why was only your mother with you (what about your father)? Why did the helicopter crash? Why did Reich kidnap you? Who is this Overmann person he thinks you are? Why did Reich's helicopter crash? What messed with/jammed the guidance system? What city are you now in? Is it the same city you originally came from? How does the city differ from the Gap? Why did LINC save your life? Does it consider you important for some reason? Reich obviously wasn't the "head honcho", so who was he working for? Who wanted you kidnapped? I mean, I'm not entirely sure what else you'd want said about Foster this early on, without burdening the player with lots more exposition and ruining some of the surprise and story exploration. I mean, how many full-length stories do you know of that tell the audience everything that's going on in the first 10 pages? Quote:
Peace & Luv, Liz
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Adventures in Roleplaying (Nov. 19): "Maybe it's still in the Elemental Plane of Candy." "Is the Elemental Plane of Candy anything like Willy Wonka's factory?" "If it is, would that mean Oompa Loompas are Candy Elementals?" "Actually, I'm thinking more like the Candyland board game. But, I like this idea better." "I like the idea of Oompa Loompa Elementals." |
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12-26-2005, 07:44 AM | #25 |
Easily amused
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,091
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Well, I just made it out of the furnace. There is so much dialogue. How do you all keep up with it? I already have 2 pages of notes, and I missed a lot.
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Occasionally visiting Uru Live (KI 00637228). |
12-26-2005, 07:44 AM | #26 | |||
Not like them!
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At this point, we know nothing about Foster's personality, nothing about his feelings for his current predicament, nothing at all. So far all we know about him are little clues- forgotten past, unknown importance, prophecies, blah blah blah. He's not a character- he's a plot device! Quote:
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12-26-2005, 07:50 AM | #27 |
Not like them!
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After all these criticisms, I would be remiss not to mention the excellent interface. Very functional, without getting in the way. Only thing missing is a double-click for exiting scenes.
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12-26-2005, 08:26 AM | #28 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 3,038
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And, MoriartyL, I'm not even going to try and answer your various remarks. Because I'm too busy putting the finishing touch to another awfully long post. And, more importantly, because we've basically already been through all that, haven't we?
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Currently reading: Dune (F. Herbert) Recently finished: Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (J. K. Rowling) [++], La Nuit des Temps (R. Barjavel) [+++] Currently playing: Skyrim Recently finished: MCF: Escape from Ravenhearst [+], The Walking Dead, ep. 1 [+++], Gray Matter [++] Last edited by Kurufinwe; 12-26-2005 at 08:40 AM. |
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12-26-2005, 08:26 AM | #29 | |||||||
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So here we find some random city boy raised by wilderness tribes being kidnapped back to the city by bad guys. No worse than the examples noted above, IMHO. Quote:
And, for what it's worth, this is all more of a science-fiction story matter than an adventure game matter. I don't think about plot details like that because I'm an adventure game veteran (I haven't been playing adventures for all that long, relatively speaking, especially back when I first played BaSS) but because I'm used to the conventions of SF. As I said, characterization in a game IMHO should come while actually playing the game. But you have to get into the plot right away in order to *have* a game to play! I mean, I honestly can't think of any game off the top of my head where you have more than just basic information about the player character anyway, except for sequels. Quote:
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Breaking open the doors is related to the escaping. You repaired one robot so you could have a new home for the personality board of your friend Joey. You repaired the second robot so you could have a way to escape some more. We interrogated the innocent man for information that is commonly known to *him*, but not to *Foster*. (After all, if you didn't know where you were or what the heck was going on, wouldn't you try to weasel info out of the first person you spotted that wasn't going to shoot you?) You technically don't have to take the guy's lunch right now. (Though you could construe that as meaning Foster's a bit of a jerk. ) Quote:
The puzzles aren't incredibly unique so far, but then, why should they be? At the current moment our immediate goals are basic, so the IMHO realistic solutions are fairly simple. Quote:
Edit: Sorry, missed this while posting: Quote:
Peace & Luv, Liz
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Adventures in Roleplaying (Nov. 19): "Maybe it's still in the Elemental Plane of Candy." "Is the Elemental Plane of Candy anything like Willy Wonka's factory?" "If it is, would that mean Oompa Loompas are Candy Elementals?" "Actually, I'm thinking more like the Candyland board game. But, I like this idea better." "I like the idea of Oompa Loompa Elementals." |
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12-26-2005, 08:51 AM | #30 | ||||||||
Not like them!
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I'll keep writing later- I have to go out. |
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12-26-2005, 09:09 AM | #31 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Paris, France
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Wow. As someone said... I've got a bad feeling about this (thread).
Anyway... Colpet, you don't really need to take notes or take track of everything. At worst, you'll miss some small story part (but you should remember them if you don't stop playing for days), but never (or maybe almost never ) some puzzle clues. Bigjko, I agree about the puzzles; they're really straighforward. And MoriartyL... sometimes it's better to let go. If you don't care about the story, or the art style, or the atmosphere, or the puzzles, at that point, you won't care for them after 10 hours.
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...It's down there somewhere. Let me have another look. |
12-26-2005, 09:44 AM | #32 | |||||||
Diva of Death
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I can understand some of the feelings that sort of thing might generate. True, the specific details are alien, but then, I've never had my house bulldozed to create a bypass or had people running around thinking I'm the technological Messiah, either. Unless they've made an adventure game story involving a D&D and computer geek who spends her days pushing paper around in an office and her nights surfing the web and playing games, I'm never going to play a story that isn't at least partially alien to me. Quote:
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Since you don't seem willing to pend judgement, I was trying to not have to spoil you, but if you want a little of the truth about the plot, feel free to read... Spoiler: At any rate, I think I'm going to have to agree to disagree from my end. It is probably at least partially a side effect of the fact that you dislike adventure game tropes and I enjoy them, but while I do have some of my own issues with this game, I admittedly either don't see the things you're mentioning as being problems, or find it odd to single this game out for having them (when I think there are plenty of other stories/games that also have them). Plus we're starting to get a bit off-topic. As Ninth said, if you honestly don't like the game, it's OK, nobody's going to force you to keep playing. This is supposed to be fun, so if you're not having fun there's not much point. Peace & Luv, Liz
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Adventures in Roleplaying (Nov. 19): "Maybe it's still in the Elemental Plane of Candy." "Is the Elemental Plane of Candy anything like Willy Wonka's factory?" "If it is, would that mean Oompa Loompas are Candy Elementals?" "Actually, I'm thinking more like the Candyland board game. But, I like this idea better." "I like the idea of Oompa Loompa Elementals." |
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12-26-2005, 11:18 AM | #33 | ||||
Not like them!
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This is so not what I intended. Let me try again. It seems to me that the AGCP has the potential to be much more than just an excuse to replay old games. I think we can and should use it as an opportunity to learn from the past: To analyze developers' intentions as one might analyze a painting or piece of music, so as to better appreciate the end result. To look for what can be learned from, and more importantly what can be improved upon. To consider alternatives to what was done, to broaden horizons. To improve our own perceptions by differentiating the good from the bad. In short, to look at these games with an open mind. I fully intend to play BaSS from start to finish along with you. I do not wish to know what lies ahead until we get there. As far as we should be concerned at this point, there is nothing to know about Foster except for the little clues given so far. All I have said so far is a simple reaction to what I have played so far, not an indictment of the game at large. Just now, I tried (and failed) to push the conversation into deeper territory, to recognize the language being used, but by that point I had come off as sounding so negative that I think you must have mistaken what I was saying for rhetorical questions. Those questions regarded the game's puzzles. It is easy to be critical of this type of puzzle, but I was actually looking for a more positive analysis. When we say the puzzles are good only because they aren't unfair, I think we're taking the wrong approach. I was hoping that someone with more experience and familiarity with adventure puzzles could analyze these and determine what works and why. The question is what these puzzles tell us about the characters, what their dramatic purpose is, why the game would not have been as good without them. The closest thing to an answer so far was: Quote:
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12-26-2005, 11:37 AM | #34 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 322
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I must CONCUR with the random CAPITALISATION issue. SOMETIMES it seemed to WORK, but most of THE time it just seemed to be any old word, and goodness me, was it ANNOYING.
Last edited by Richard; 12-26-2005 at 11:48 AM. |
12-26-2005, 11:59 AM | #35 |
Diva of Death
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Moriarty:
(laughs a bit) Ah, as an old friend of mine once quipped, "The great part about the Internet is that we can all completely misunderstand each other faster than ever before!" Now that I know what you're going for, I had been considering a similar thing myself. Maybe we can start this all over again, and going from the intro, proceed through the dialogue and puzzles bit by bit looking at things closely. We have a whole week, after all, and even after that we can still talk about early parts of the game. Though I probably totally didn't come off that way, I do appreciate your ideas... they take approaches I hadn't considered before (since you're new to the genre). Peace & Luv, Liz
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Adventures in Roleplaying (Nov. 19): "Maybe it's still in the Elemental Plane of Candy." "Is the Elemental Plane of Candy anything like Willy Wonka's factory?" "If it is, would that mean Oompa Loompas are Candy Elementals?" "Actually, I'm thinking more like the Candyland board game. But, I like this idea better." "I like the idea of Oompa Loompa Elementals." |
12-26-2005, 01:36 PM | #36 |
Easily amused
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,091
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I finally got the elevator working, and am down to another level (where the cable is). Is this where we're stopping? And for how long?
So far I'm not minding the game too much; I do find all the dialogue and multiple characters confusing and a bit tiresome, especially when I'm stuck. I really do much better with true puzzles, rather than inventory usage ones, even though most of these are pretty straight forward. Since I've found out you can die, I'm saving quite a bit in case I make a wrong move. I've also eased up on my note taking, which makes things go a bit quicker. Spoiler:
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Occasionally visiting Uru Live (KI 00637228). |
12-26-2005, 01:53 PM | #37 | ||
Diva of Death
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And yes, you can die, I should have mentioned that before. (sheepish look) That is part of the reason why I wanted to replay the game, so I could find all of them (they don't call me the Diva of Death for nothin'! ) Peace & Luv, Liz
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Adventures in Roleplaying (Nov. 19): "Maybe it's still in the Elemental Plane of Candy." "Is the Elemental Plane of Candy anything like Willy Wonka's factory?" "If it is, would that mean Oompa Loompas are Candy Elementals?" "Actually, I'm thinking more like the Candyland board game. But, I like this idea better." "I like the idea of Oompa Loompa Elementals." |
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12-26-2005, 02:16 PM | #38 | |
Easily amused
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,091
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Occasionally visiting Uru Live (KI 00637228). |
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12-26-2005, 06:41 PM | #39 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 6,409
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...It's down there somewhere. Let me have another look. |
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12-26-2005, 06:43 PM | #40 |
Diva of Death
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Thank you for the pointer, Colpet... I'll have to check that out.
At any rate, I thought I might be all official about trying to start this analysis stuff over. We could start with picking apart the intro for a day or two. CD Intro: Since the CD intro is essentially the comic book, I managed to find the following two websites we can use as references for the text and dialogue: Scans of the comic Gallery of differences between the CD intro and the comic (It's a Flash website, sorry) For the floppy and in-game stuff, I made the following notes: Floppy intro: We start with a wide view of the city, with cars driving past in various directions. We then see a huge fade-in of the game's title in large letters, which then changes to a slow pan up to the very top of all the steel city towers. It then picks up right at the comic scene with Foster, Reich, and the pilot in the helicopter as the helicopter is about to crash, but with this dialogue instead: Pilot: I'm picking up a JAMMING signal, sir! Reich: Switch to OVER-RIDE, you MORON! Pilot: Too LATE!! The helicopter then crashes and Foster escapes as in the CD intro, but with the differences: When Reich starts trying to shoot and the pilot runs in and ducks out of the way: Reich: OUT of the WAY, you bungling IDIOT! They both fire at the retreating Foster unsuccessfully. Reich: What are you WAITING for? Reich: FIND him - NOW! It then progresses to the dialogue inside the first location as the CD intro. In-game dialogue: Foster runs in and heads up to the walkway. Moments later, a guard comes in from the outside door, and a worker (Hobbins) comes in from the right. They stand on the lower level talking. Hobbins: What YOU want? Guard: Looking for a SABOTEUR from the GAP. Guard: He CRASHED a CHOPPER and ESCAPED! Hobbins: Sounds DANGEROUS to me... Guard: Don't WORRY. He's not going ANYWHERE. Guard: We've cut POWER to the ELEVATOR... Guard: ...and the crash has BLOCKED the WALKWAY. Hobbins: What if he comes in HERE? Guard: You'll be FINE. We've posted GUARDS. Guard: ...and REICH wants to hunt him down PERSONALLY. Hobbins: REICH, eh? This guy must be IMPORTANT. Guard: Yeah - we've got ORDERS direct from LINC... Guard: Take him ALIVE - before he does any MORE damage! Hobbins: Best of LUCK to you. Foster: These guys are out to GET me... but WHY? Foster: They already DESTROYED my HOME and my PEOPLE. Foster: Well, Reich - whoever you are - it's RETRIBUTION TIME! Foster: Got to be CLEVER - play them at their own GAME... Foster: FIRST thing is to get JOEY running again... The game then starts proper. Let's chew on this for a while, maybe? Peace & Luv, Liz
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Adventures in Roleplaying (Nov. 19): "Maybe it's still in the Elemental Plane of Candy." "Is the Elemental Plane of Candy anything like Willy Wonka's factory?" "If it is, would that mean Oompa Loompas are Candy Elementals?" "Actually, I'm thinking more like the Candyland board game. But, I like this idea better." "I like the idea of Oompa Loompa Elementals." |
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