[Hammerite]

I've recently finished this game - as always with RPGs, I'm amazed how I can invest into it emotionally even when I name my character 'Ploppy'. At least you can't name all of the characters, or it would have been the scatological free-for-all of Final Fantasy VII.
I am nearly 20 years old.

[Gabe]

Shyadow Broker dlc was superb, actually have better design and direction compare to any other ingame levels.Exciting to see game's improvement,looking
forward to ME3 and any new dlc ofcourse.

[JemyM]

Originally Posted by UPtimist

Is it something that should be played only after you've finished the game?Not that it's a problem for me, but in case someone else happens to play it on the same 'Box... (it's silly how the DLC all just piles up with a new game, so it in a way messes the rhythm of the side-quests that usually slowly start gathering)

Not neccessary in my opinion. I finished it with my Insanity character who done every quest in the game up to the "IFF" mission (which is the last mission you want to do since it begins the end-game).

[Crunchy in milk]

Originally Posted by UPtimist

Is it something that should be played only after you've finished the game?

Major characters throughout the DLC will change their dialog (where appropriate) based on whether or not you have completed the Omega 4 Relay mission.

It doesn't change how the DLC plays out, it merely switches character dialog a little, to reflect where your Shepard is at. Its all very nicely done.

If you play it too early though, you can miss out on a couple of related side missions on Illium that Liara gives you. These are the remnants from the originally intended Shadow Broker mission that where left in vanilla ME2.

Help Liara out with her ME2 quests first if you're a completionist.

[mgeorge]

I just started playing this game a few days ago and have heard that there is some free DLC. So I activated my code that came with the game, and it brings up the Cerberus Network on the right side of the main menu.

But everything in the Cerberus Network costs Microsoft points.

Am I doing something wrong? or has this offer run out or something?

Appreciate any help in this.

[rayvio]

some of the older DLC are free if you register the Cerberus Network code that comes with the game, but BioWare's website is a maze to navigate, the DLC page only shows a selection of the more recent DLCs
try this link
http://social.bioware.com/user_entitlements.php
the following should be free
Zaeed - The Price of Revenge
Cerberus Weapon and Armor
Normandy Crash Site
Cerberus Arc Projector
Firewalker Pack

[mgeorge]

Thank you!!

Yes their site is freaking horrible. I entered the code given to me with the disk and it activated the Cererbus Network, so I figured there would be directions on how to download the free content that came with the game.

But there's nothing either in-game or on their web site that explains this in detail, or at all for that matter, that I could see. As soon as I went to the link you put above I had no problems and have all the content downloaded now.

Again, thanks very much. You saved me a lot of hassle.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Some of the free DLC and goodies come with first edition copies of the game only. Sounds like you have a copy of those in this case.

What class are you playing? Are you a male or female Shepard and are you going towards Paragon or Renegade?

[UPtimist]

In replaying ME1 (in the end I had to do another adept, it's just, especially in ME1, clearly the superior of all classes), I don't really know which of the two MEs has the worse planetary exploration system. Sure, the mako driving is tedious especially in the mountainous areas, but then at least there's other stuff in the field too, and in the other planets it's just a quick 'scan & done' type scenario. If everything were visible in the map to begin with, the mako'ing would clearly be more fun, but then it's so stupid to circulate the entire area because there's no way of telling from afar if there are minerals.

Then again, it's so dull and one-sided (and slow, until you get the upgrade, in which case it's just less slow) that planetary scanning. But it can go faster, and you can just skip the low-level planets. But you have to do that scan in every place. Plus, I really like how there's all kinds of interesting things found on even uninteresting planets (all the ID tags and writings and Prothean info) in ME1, if only collecting all resulted in something, instead of just "great, you have the whole collection!". If it's all so revered and important that I go look for them (and considering the amount of progress from previous prothean finds), then how come it's just a collectible card game once you get them and there's absolutely nothing except xp to be gained. You'd think someone would give a dung at least.

But anyways, apparently they're still very much not happy withthe planetary exploration in ME2 either, and hopefully it's something much better in ME3.

Anyways, I'll probably get the Shadow Broker DLC. Sounds pretty good.

[mgeorge]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Some of the free DLC and goodies come with first edition copies of the game only. Sounds like you have a copy of those in this case.

What class are you playing? Are you a male or female Shepard and are you going towards Paragon or Renegade?

I imported my char from ME1 who's a male. I don't even recall what class he played, but I changed to Infiltrator in this game. And even though this probably doesn't make a lot of sense, I'm not really leaning towards Paragon or Renegade. I kind of do what I feel like at the time, although probably leaning more towards Paragon.

I think this game is a definite improvement over ME1, which I thought was a very good game, but not quite as good as the reviews suggested. I liked the fact that you could do missions in any order in ME1, but my first play thorough, I somehow did them in a screwy order, which had me getting to the crux of the story earlier in the game than I would have liked.

I've already played ME2 for over 20 hrs and believe I'm not even half way thorough yet, if the missions still available to me are any indication. The side missions are much better and actually interesting in this one. I'm still not crazy about the moral decisions the game throws at you as to me it's still like your either an Ahole or Angel, but at least it's there, and I like the quick interrupt option. I had a blast

Spoiler:

punching out the reporter

once again!

Overall I'm having a ball, and already thinking about my next playthrough which I think will be an engineer.

[Periglo]

Originally Posted by mgeorge

I'm still not crazy about the moral decisions the game throws at you as to me it's still like your either an Ahole or Angel,.

I read somewhere, "moral decisions in RPGs boil down to either helping a baby or eating it".

Some NPC's may have complex morality, but not the main character. Perhaps Alpha Protocol is better in this regard (I have to play some more to be sure).

[rayvio]

Originally Posted by Periglo

I read somewhere, "moral decisions in RPGs boil down to either helping a baby or eating it".

Some NPC's may have complex morality, but not the main character. Perhaps Alpha Protocol is better in this regard (I have to play some more to be sure).

I think Dragon Age moves towards the right direction on this. one of the decisions you have to make regarding the Dwarven politics is a real moral dilemma, not only does it remain so even with meta-gaming knowledge but becomes even more of one

[JemyM]

Originally Posted by Periglo

I read somewhere, "moral decisions in RPGs boil down to either helping a baby or eating it".

Games like Dragon Age, Planescape Torment, Mask of the Betrayer etc go closer to actually explore real moral questions.

ME even reward you for sticking to the archetype they created for you, so there are really just two ways to play the game, orange or light blue.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by JemyM

Games like Dragon Age, Planescape Torment, Mask of the Betrayer etc go closer to actually explore real moral questions.

You forgot to include Knights Of The Old Republic 2.

[Hammerite]

Originally Posted by JemyM

Games like Dragon Age, Planescape Torment, Mask of the Betrayer etc go closer to actually explore real moral questions.

ME even reward you for sticking to the archetype they created for you, so there are really just two ways to play the game, orange or light blue.

Exactly. As much I liked the game, it's hard to feel like you have hard decisions to make when the top dialogue choice is the 'good' choice and the bottom choice is clearly the 'bad' one.

[Crunchy in milk]

Originally Posted by Hammerite

Exactly. As much I liked the game, it's hard to feel like you have hard decisions to make when the top dialogue choice is the 'good' choice and the bottom choice is clearly the 'bad' one.

Which of the renegade options is the bad one? Coloring it red and calling it renegade might influence your opinion of them, but honestly, which of them is 'bad'?

Is blowing up the Heretic geth instead of brainwashing them bad? How is rewriting the brains of your enemy the 'good' option? Might as well welcome the Reapers with open arms and wearing 'Ascend away!' t-shirts. You just did the same thing if you went 'blue'.

Is killing off the only remaining, breeding member of a species known to either be ruthless killers in their own right, or very susceptible to reaper influence the 'bad' choice?

How is blowing up the collector base, depriving yourself of intimate knowledge of your enemy's makeup right down to their intimate construction, when faced with the very real, very immediate need to defend yourself from them the 'good' option? Seems more like heroic stupidity to me.

I don't mind the ME2 system being clear via colour that Shepard's delivery of the solution/dialog will be 'wimpy' or 'forceful', I just hate that they're a guaranteed 100% success.

I hate that all problems have paragon and renegade solutions. Both should always be offered, but Shepard should also risk failure for sticking to his/her moral compass. Have paragon's fail for being too self righteous and renegades fail for being too callous.

You get something close to this by picking high or low on the right side of the wheel. Honestly SOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo (plus infinity O's) many people completely ignore those options until they fail the paragon/renegade 'scoring' and the left side is greyed out. They miss a lot of great ME2 content because of this.

Seriously, if you're considering replaying ME2 consider too ignoring the Paragon/Renegade options on the left of the wheel completely. Its a great way to shake things up, and the results often have more 'punch', than Shepard sweet talking everyone around with his/her pied piper skills.

I would much rather the system evolve to one of degrees. The more blue the dialog option, the more paragon points you get for trying it, but the greater chance it can fail when the problem really favours a ruthless approach.

The more red the dialog option, the more ruthless/callow the response. You net more renegade points for trying it, but there's a greater risk of it not working when a paragon response is the more appropriate.

[JemyM]

No thanks.

Keep "points" systems away from morality systems completely or they aren't morality systems anymore.

The points is about building archetypes rather than posing real moral challenges. Morality is rational and context based. Moral challenges require the individual to comphrehend and judge the data that can be gathered in the situation and can never be solved with generic rules or responses. If there's a generic response to a challenge, an obvious beneficial or good action that can be taken, the challenge wasn't a real moral challenge in the first place.

[Owskie]

I dunno I found some of the Paragon choices to be what a Renegade would do. It didn't seem to flow well to me.

[Crunchy in milk]

Originally Posted by JemyM

No thanks.
Keep "points" systems away from morality systems completely or they aren't morality systems anymore.

ME2's system is an extremely good example of why using points sucks.

You do get 'points' for behaving either renegade or paragon. The game tracks how many points you score, against how many you could possibly score.

This is why late game paragon/renegade options are often more difficult to pass based on when you do them. Not because they're tougher decisions but because you didn't act as an extreme example of either paragon or renegade, up to that decision.

That system sucks. In no way do I advocate points being relevant to being able to make decisions. At most they should have some cosmetic effect for those that enjoy it (like scores in adventure games).

I shouldn't have to constantly prove to the game I'm extreme, to make an extreme decision X number of decisions into the game. ME2's system is a half step forward from ME1's and most other RPGs that have you investing points into persuasion skill(s) to be allowed to make all possible choices.

I want them to take the whole step, away from game mechanics being at all related to decisions you can make.

The points is about building archetypes rather than posing real moral challenges. Morality is rational and context based. Moral challenges require the individual to comphrehend and judge the data that can be gathered in the situation and can never be solved with generic rules or responses.

Which is just what I'm asking for.

The current ME2 system, if you have enough points you can always find the Paragon Solution, or the Renegade solution. And they're always the right solution. I'd prefer that always sticking with renegade options isn't always the smart move and likewise always sticking with paragon options.

Shepard should still get his/her paragon/renegade points for staying true to their 'bent' but those points should have nothing to do with whether or not the decision is right or wrong.

If there's a generic response to a challenge, an obvious beneficial or good action that can be taken, the challenge wasn't a real moral challenge in the first place.

Which is basically what ME2 offers you. Have enough points and every decision is the right one. Shepard just Paragons or Renegades everyone around to their view point.

I hate this. I would much rather see Paragon/Renegade as a measure of your morality but entirely divorced from your ability to make decisions. Just a measurement and not a mechanic.

[mgeorge]

Good discussion, however I'm not sure how you'd implement "true" moral decisions in any video game, at least for the time being. The medium hasn't evolved enough yet IMO, and not sure if it ever can.

I give credit where credit is due though, and it has improved somewhat. My favorite game of all time is Deus Ex, and although I absolutely love the game for it's non-linear gameplay, as far as moral decisions, you don't really get them. It gives you the illusion of them, and in a very clever way, however it doesn't really have any bearing on the story in the end.

And this is where I see games like ME1 and 2 at least have some bearing on the story although in actuality, probably very little, if any, at least so far in ME2.

Spoiler:

I've gotten to the Mordin loyalty quest, and this bothered me in the first game as well. We know the Krogan are a warlike race, and very well may try to conquer the galaxy if given the chance. We also know that they got royally screwed by the Genophage created by the Salarians. So do we praise Mordin for wanting to keep the Krogan population in check, or chastise him for it? This one had me sitting at my comp for like 5 min. trying to figure where I stood on it. So, there really are some "grey" areas as to moral choices in the game. In the end, I yelled at him for it, but I think part of that was the guilt I felt for killing Wrex in the first game haha. I'm still not sure how I feel about it.

Will my decision have any bearing on the story by the end? I highly doubt it, but it would be nice. But I believe this is one area that has improved in gaming and ME2 especially. I'm actually emotionally involved in the characters and the gameworld. No easy feat, especially for a cynical old fart like myself.