[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

What we all really need is a sequel to Rise of the Triad.

Sorry for sounding dumb but what is Rise of the Triad?

[undeaf]

It was a 3d shooter using an enhanced wolfenstein 3d engine which had some very unorthrodox multiplayer game modes, like this one where this big heavily armoured blue triangle zooms through the level and you had to blow it up.

[EvoG]

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

There's a difference between being a great programmer and a great game designer.

Perhaps read all my posts above?

Originally Posted by EvoG

... No one said Carmack was a great game designer (he doesn't even try)...

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

And please refrain from using condescending language when you address anyone here.

...and who are you? Oh yea you're one of the Sony defenders looking for a little jab at was otherwise a terrible harmless post. Nice try. Oooh, sorry, was that condescending?

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by EvoG

Perhaps read all my posts above?

...and who are you? Oh yea you're one of the Sony defenders looking for a little jab at was otherwise a terrible harmless post. Nice try. Oooh, sorry, was that condescending?

It's not about defending Sony or Microsoft. It's about your tone of voice. You want to be a tough guy, be a tough guy in someone's face. Not behind a computer monitor. That is cowardly.

[Jackal]

Originally Posted by EvoG

Now are you kidding me? All my posts on this forum have points and I'd like to think I particpate grealy in intelligent conversations, so with all due respect, I think you popping in out of the blue to play traffic cop is a bit premature. As it were, Crimson and I (including others) have had a few back and forths in this thread, so this is status quo.

If the status quo you've helped establish makes insulting personal remarks acceptable, then changing that status quo is long overdue, not premature. Yes, most of your posts make intelligent points. That doesn't entitle you to a few freebie insults.

And I think it goes without saying the the directive applies to the whole playing field. EVERYONE can and from now on WILL make their points without being condescending.

...and who are you? Oh yea you're one of the Sony defenders looking for a little jab at was otherwise a terrible harmless post. Nice try. Oooh, sorry, was that condescending?

Yes it was. Stop escalating problems.

[EvoG]

Tough guy? Yea alright, I'm being a "tough guy" by using the word myopia to describe someones lack of perspective.

Listen, you really have no reason to say anything to me honestly. You've disagreed with anything and anyone talking bad about Sony, which includes me, so to say you're not trying to attack me personally without bias is a bit hard to swallow. I'm am perhaps the LEAST outwardly offensive person on this forum without provocation; in other words I dont just 'stir shit up' for the sake of it...I dont aribitrarily resort to profanity, I dont use derogatory comments about peoples mothers and I dont just pick fights. So any attempts to now vilify me for pretty much nothing is ridiculous, and is really only convenient for you as an attack on me for my talk against Sony, and no I'm not being facetious.

[EvoG]

Originally Posted by Jackal

If the status quo you've helped establish makes insulting personal remarks acceptable, then changing that status quo is long overdue, not premature. Yes, most of your posts make intelligent points. That doesn't entitle you to a few freebie insults.

And I think it goes without saying the the directive applies to the whole playing field. EVERYONE can and from now on WILL make their points without being condescending.



Yes it was. Stop escalating problems.

I'm am honestly BAFFLED by this response. Perhaps someone enlighten me to EXACTLY what you feel is so wrong with my post? Myopia is a terribly insulting personal remark? For as long as I've been here, I have never seen people THIS thin skinned?

[Jackal]

This thread has been filled with nastiness, trolling, and otherwise-unacceptable behaviour all along (as these idiotic console war threads always seem to do). Others have been warned and even banned through its regrettable lifespan, so no one's singling you out. It's simply time to stop instigating new cycles of insults.

Something doesn't need to be "terribly insulting" to be trolling. If it was meant to be insulting, and serves no other purpose, then it's inappropriate. And since this one was entirely unprovoked, something was said. It's pretty simple. And believe me, we are honestly BAFFLED at your unwillingness to accept the gentlest of moderation.

[insane_cobra]

EvoG, it's not about something you've said, it's just that your last few posts have been filled with yelling and verbal aggression. Let's all calm down, people. Here, a llama kiss for you.

[akane_t]

Llamas are dangerous so if you see one, make sure you shout:

look out, there are llamas!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzEMTm4-xzw


I won't be buying one of the newer consoles for another year or two. I will wait until the water clears up a bit and all of the consoles have enough time to build up a library of games. I will pick one then. Debating which one's better now is ultimately pointless although it might be fun thing to do to kill some time.

[EvoG]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

EvoG, it's not about something you've said, it's just that your last few posts have been filled with yelling and verbal aggression. Let's all calm down, people. Here, a llama kiss for you.

Thanks Cobsie

[Eureka]

Originally Posted by Litrick

Considering everything you have said about anything ps3 related amounts to "its lame" im not sure i will take that comment as a credible source

True, but I actually did hear that on a gaming podcast.

[Fop]

I was at a zoo once and there was a llama there who would wave back with its ears if you waved you hand at it.

[CrimsonBlue]

Originally Posted by EvoG

No one said Carmack was a great game designer (he doesn't even try), but his coding ability is UNDISPUTED.

I assumed you meant he was a great game designer, since you felt it was a loss for Sony. Why would it be a loss for Sony if he just isn't a very good game designer? Games need to be good and fun to play, not "well coded".

You're not going to buy a game based on how well programmed it is.

Also, wouldn't say undisputed. There are plenty of extremely good game programmers out there. And they actually make good games too

(I did enjoy Doom 3 for a couple of minutes. But then I don't like FPSs at all. So I won't miss him the slightest )

[Eureka]

Morrowind probably wasn't considered "well coded," but it was still a fantastic game.

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by CrimsonBlue

I assumed you meant he was a great game designer, since you felt it was a loss for Sony. Why would it be a loss for Sony if he just isn't a very good game designer? Games need to be good and fun to play, not "well coded".

They need to be both, actually. It would be a big loss because his opinion is held in high regard among the industry professionals and because id's engines usually power many different games (only several games use the Doom 3 engine, but all Quake engines have been extremely popular).

Also, wouldn't say undisputed. There are plenty of extremely good game programmers out there.

Which doesn't make him any less of a coding legend.

And they actually make good games too

The old guard of game developers, yes, but programmers rarely design games nowadays (unless we're talking small, bedroom coding teams).

(I did enjoy Doom 3 for a couple of minutes. But then I don't like FPSs at all. So I won't miss him the slightest )

Nice to know your opinion, but why should anyone really care whether you'd miss him personally? He would be missed by the general gaming population.

That said, id still supports PS3, they just greatly prefer Xbox 360. That's all. Give it a rest.

[EvoG]

Actually my comment had nothing to do with Sony at all. Simply that yes, in an industry full of talented programmers, he's one of the best. Using his last game though as a measure of his ability to program is a bit much, as no matter how you look at it, he's really only responsible for the engine. But no my defense of his skill was unrelated to his comments about the PS3.

Now, whats interesting is that while I wouldn't buy a game solely on its optimized and heavily commented code, I would avoid games that looked wonderful but performed like ass. So in few cases, I do take note of engines made by developers I expect more from such as Epic, Crytek and Id, looking for them to spearhead the latest technology, which so far has been the case. Honestly Carmack didn't do as much as I'd hoped for Doom3 in light of Farcry and HL2 at the time, but I honestly believe that was circumstantial and not any lacking of ability on his part. They were making another Doom and that I see was the problem with his choice in which technologies to develop.

For what its worth, he did come up with Carmacks Reverse during Doom3 dev, to fix stencil shadow issues with the camera penetrating the shadow volume, but now that we've moved on to rather sophisticated shadowmap algorithms, I guess that point is moot.

[EvoG]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Which doesn't make him any less of a coding legend.

Thats pretty much the bottom line. Its like the throngs of people giving Peter Molyneux a rough time just because he promised more than the Xbox could deliver with Fable, and they didnt' like Black and White. All of a sudden he's a terrible designer and a liar and, well you get the idea. Its ludicrous to think his entire body of work is meaningless because his last few games were less than stellar (not in my opinion mind you, as I loved Fable despite being disappointed in not getting Project Ego, and I thought Black and White was an amazing piece of tech, if a tad light on meaningful gameplay)

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by EvoG

Thats pretty much the bottom line. Its like the throngs of people giving Peter Molyneux a rough time just because he promised more than the Xbox could deliver with Fable, and they didnt' like Black and White.

Well, he always over-promises (EDIT: at least since Dungeon Keeper ), but regardless of that, he's still one of the gaming's greatest visionaries.

[EvoG]

Well no doubt, but he doesn't over promise(well he doesn't actually promise anything to my recollection, he just talks about features) to deceive his fans, unlike Sony has been (sorry couldn't resist), but rather he, being an avid gamer, sincerely believes what he talks about with his designs, but reality hits, technology can't match the vision or there isn't enough time and stuff gets nixed. So at best, he's guilty of thinking too big and then telling us! Of course we're gonna get excited! But when it comes down to it, his intent wasn't to lie, he just dreams big.