[insane_cobra]

Here, watch Gamespot's video review of Metroid Prime, it might clear up the things a little.

[Putrid Moldyman]

Nintendo also held an after-hours conference, which featured a trailer for the next Smash Brothers game, which includes....


...get this...




SOLID SNAKE as a playable character.

http://revolution.ign.com/articles/707/707504p1.html

Miyamoto even hints that there's the possibility that other 3rd party characters could make the cut.

I would say Nintendo's presentation was a success. As proof, two polls on GameFAQs showed that 50+% of those who voted felt that Nintendo's was the best presentation, and nearly 45% voted that they must have a Wii NOW.

I had personally lost my enthusiasm for Nintendo, feeling that they hadn't supported the Gamecube as well as they should have, and I'd vowed that I wouldn't buy the next Nintendo console. Of course, after seeing the press conference, I'm going to pre-order the Wii as soon as I can.

I'll admit that perhaps not every game shown excited me, but the philosophy Nintendo was pitching really agreed with me.

[MoriartyL]

Originally Posted by Flux

Echoes was already a remake of Prime, so this change is good.

A remake. Uh huh. I suppose Riven's a remake of Myst, since the controls are the same. But why limit this inane perspective to exploration games?: Monkey Island 2's a remake of SoMI, because other than the story and the puzzles it's the same gameplay! Aether is nothing like Tallon IV, and I wouldn't want any future Metroids to be like either. But this...

You know what, you won't understand what I'm saying so let me put my frustration into terms you can probably relate to. Say there were only one series of adventure games left in the world. Now say the creators of this series plan to make the next iteration into a pure action game. That's what this is like. Innovation is one thing- innovation is great! I'm all for new types of platforming, new types of action, etc. I liked the ammo system in Echoes, I liked the 3D screw attack, I liked the light world/dark world theme. Those are innovations. This is turning it into a completely different kind of game, a kind of game I have no interest in whatsoever. And I can't tolerate that from the series which is the only exploration series left.

[Karmillo]

Call me crazy here but wouldn't multible worlds lead to MORE exploration?
Change isnt always good but its not always bad either, you should wait till theres a playable demo or something before you start with the cataclysmic Woe


And snake in the next Smash Brothers!? AWESOME! and the textures on marios denim overalls is amazing

[MoriartyL]

Originally Posted by Karmillo

Call me crazy here but wouldn't multible worlds lead to MORE exploration?

Multiple worlds means it's split into levels instead of being a cohesive whole. It means there are no connections between areas, no more shortcuts to learn. This is a huge step backwards, and the only reason they might do it is if they no longer care as much about exploration. In the past, Nintendo has always called Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2: Echoes "First-Person Adventures"; this they're repeatedly calling a "first-person shooter". I seem to recall that when I said this would happen I was laughed down. "Metroid Prime: Hunters is just a spin-off!", I was told. "Of course this isn't the new long-term direction for the series!" But that doesn't really matter now; What matters is, exploration is dead. God, I hate the game industry.

[Karmillo]

And I'm sure the industry hates you too

but "Travel between the huge areas on multiple worlds will be undertaken in Samus' new gunship" doesnt give the the impression that multiple worlds is standing for split into levels but instead of exploring on one huge world yourll instead be exploring on multiple very big worlds that you will travel to and fro on your ship

[MoriartyL]

Originally Posted by Karmillo

And I'm sure the industry hates you too

but "Travel between the huge areas on multiple worlds will be undertaken in Samus' new gunship" doesnt give the the impression that multiple worlds is standing for split into levels but instead of exploring on one huge world yourll instead be exploring on multiple very big worlds that you will travel to and fro on your ship

I'm sorry- do you actually believe that this game is going to be roughly three times the size of other Metroid games? Because I don't. And that's saying there are only three planets! Besides, I don't think such size is necessarily a good thing, since the smaller picture would easily be lost by the world designers. How will this work in practice? The game will be roughly the same size as previous games, but instead of having all areas connected by multiple points (which gives a fair amount of depth), they won't be connected at all. How could they be?- they're different planets! Planets and areas are functionally exactly the same thing. The only difference is that planets can't be connected. Which means the game will be less cohesive. Yay, progress!

[bysmitty]

I'm sorry I can't watch the video review at the moment since I'm at work so can you please explain what you mean by 'exploration'? I'm familiar with the word but it just doesn't seam to fit in with your usage.

...bysmitty

[Karmillo]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

I'm sorry- do you actually believe that this game is going to be roughly three times the size of other Metroid games? Because I don't. And that's saying there are only three planets! Besides, I don't think such size is necessarily a good thing, since the smaller picture would easily be lost by the world designers. How will this work in practice? The game will be roughly the same size as previous games, but instead of having all areas connected by multiple points (which gives a fair amount of depth), they won't be connected at all. How could they be?- they're different planets! Planets and areas are functionally exactly the same thing. The only difference is that planets can't be connected. Which means the game will be less cohesive. Yay, progress!

OH MY GOD PLEASE SHUT UP!

Nothing personal or all, but for some reason I just feel like bitch slapping you! Maybe its the heat or something but the whole cynical sarcasm thing just makes me want to headbut a truck!

Ahhh sweet tranquility

[MoriartyL]

Metroid Prime (and its wonderful sequel which as a matter of fact I've just finished replaying again) does have action. (A little too much for my tastes, but I can put up with it.) But it is not the focus of the experience any more than the focus of Myst is puzzles. The focus of the game is the world design. The majority of the game consists of walking around the world design, learning its topography, its backstory, its hidden secrets. This is what I call "exploration". The action is more streamlined than in FPSs, so that it should not distract from the world design. And the world design is gorgeous. Torvus Bog from Metroid Prime 2 is tied for my favorite world design ever with Myst IV's Spire. Every single room (except for corridors) is wholly unique. The layout is always complex but never contrived. With every power-up you get, you can reach new areas in previous locations. So you might get one power-up, remember some place you've been to (in a different area) hours ago that you can use it at, and take a shortcut to get there. It's basically a (guided, if you use hints) tour of great world design, with action thrown in to keep you on your toes.

[Putrid Moldyman]

One can't explain it any better than that.

[bysmitty]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

Metroid Prime (and its wonderful sequel which as a matter of fact I've just finished replaying again) does have action. (A little too much for my tastes, but I can put up with it.) But it is not the focus of the experience any more than the focus of Myst is puzzles. The focus of the game is the world design. The majority of the game consists of walking around the world design, learning its topography, its backstory, its hidden secrets. This is what I call "exploration". The action is more streamlined than in FPSs, so that it should not distract from the world design. And the world design is gorgeous. Torvus Bog from Metroid Prime 2 is tied for my favorite world design ever with Myst IV's Spire. Every single room (except for corridors) is wholly unique. The layout is always complex but never contrived. With every power-up you get, you can reach new areas in previous locations. So you might get one power-up, remember some place you've been to (in a different area) hours ago that you can use it at, and take a shortcut to get there. It's basically a (guided, if you use hints) tour of great world design, with action thrown in to keep you on your toes.

Thank you for elaborating. I now understand your point much better. If that was how the previous games were designed then I would have to agree that more traditional halo-esq FPS gameplay would be much less appealing to me. Also, I think I need to pick up the previous games now; they sound great from your description.

...bysmitty

[Starflux]

Moriarty, you're being a bit condescending but obviously this means a great deal to you so I'll just gloss over that. I've played 99% of Metroid Prime (I could never defeat the final version of the endboss) and seen my fair share of Echoes. I agree that there are many new features in echoes, even some you might call innovations (though light/dark worlds are pretty standard fare; awesome, but standard). But it was still a remake. Yes, it's because it uses much the same gameplay, the same course plotted throughout, the same structure and atmosphere, etc. That doesn't mean it can't be expertly designed or awesome or 100% loveable... it just means it's a remake.

You're saying you want more of the same. There's really nothing wrong with that. But I like it in a game if it dares to be different from its last incarnation. Also, you're being VERY conservative in your approach to it. No one has seen or heard anything from the game, let alone knows what it will be like, yet you hear one detail and immediately scream (yes, you literally screamed in those posts) that they've murdered this and that and shout hollow phrases like 'exploration is dead'.

If you liked the Metroid Primes so much, the least you could do is have a little faith in its creators, no?

[Lucien21]

http://media.revolution.ign.com/arti...05/vids_1.html

A bit about the virtual console

[bysmitty]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Here, watch Gamespot's video review of Metroid Prime, it might clear up the things a little.

I just got done watching the whole 16minute movie. Dang, that looks awesome. Now I can't wait even more for my Wii since I don't have a gamecube to play it on. Thanks for the link.

...bysmitty

[tabacco]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

You know what, you won't understand what I'm saying so let me put my frustration into terms you can probably relate to.

Let's keep it civil, please.

[MoriartyL]

Okay, I'm sorry. Yes, I take walkies personally and I don't take the threat of exploration deprivation very well. And yes, I know I was shouting. But.... Rats, never a good but around when you need it.

Mory

[Spiwak]

What is this vague term "exploration" you say is dying? There are plenty of still games that are all about exploration. Shadow of the Colossus last year. BioShock next year promises to focus on the exploration.

Are we not thinking of the same thing?

[Karmillo]

a small gripe but im kinda annoyed that they are having the wire for the wii gamepad come out of the bottom, it feels kinda awkward with the wire slightly weighng down the bottom instead of the top but I guess youll get used to it eventualy

[MoriartyL]

Originally Posted by Spiwak

What is this vague term "exploration" you say is dying? There are plenty of still games that are all about exploration. Shadow of the Colossus last year. BioShock next year promises to focus on the exploration.

Are we not thinking of the same thing?

I don't have a PS2, and I've never even heard of "BioShock", so I don't know- you could be right. What I mean is exploration in the Myst/Metroid mold, with excellent world design.