[Aj_]

Originally Posted by tabacco

Yeah, the power glove! Oh wait, that was made by Mattel.

Couldn't possibly have been anything to do with Nintendo, the Power Glove was a 3rd part peripheral*.

*That happened to be an official accessory with seal of approval

[tabacco]

Originally Posted by Aj_

Couldn't possibly have been anything to do with Nintendo, the Power Glove was a 3rd part peripheral*.

*That happened to be an official accessory with seal of approval

So what? Because Nintendo endorsed a suspect 3rd party accessory back in the 80s, all peripherals they design in-house from then on are automatically shit? Get real.

[Aj_]

Originally Posted by Thrik

And you think the concept of using gestures instead of pressing buttons is lame? What? How is shifting your fingers across to hit buttons to do stuff preferable to just waving your controller sharply to the left?

You haven't tried a Freestyle Pro I guess.

It's not stripped of buttons, either. There are five buttons to use, not including the start button; adding buttons upon buttons is not the answer, it over complicates the experience, and generally makes getting into a new game more daunting than it should be; a better designed in-game interface can easily make up for less buttons, with the buttons themselves used for actual interaction with the game; gestures could be used for less common stuff.

I can handle 10 buttons. It's preferable to have them if you want them.

I predict that a normal style controller will be available for the Revolution, hopefully at launch, but atleast in the first year of it being released.

Perhaps Nintendo no longer have the weight to make something that's been done before become a standard, or perhaps they do; as I said, we won't know until it's out. Outright saying that it'll be lame and/or suck before even trying it is just daft, though, and really kills my desire to bother taking you seriously.

It's no more daft than thinking that a SNES-like 5 button pad could be used just as successfully as a modern PS2/Xbox gamepad with tweaked software interfaces, or that gestures will be more preferable to buttons. You think that you can reinforce your positive opinion by criticizing mine for not having experience when you haven't stated you have any either?

Originally Posted by tabacco

So what? Because Nintendo endorsed a suspect 3rd party accessory back in the 80s, all peripherals they design in-house from then on are automatically shit? Get real.

Straw man... why don't you make up some more arguments that I didn't post.

[tabacco]

Originally Posted by Aj_

Straw man... why don't you make up some more arguments that I didn't post.

Mostly because your attitude makes you not really worth bothering over that much.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by tabacco

Not to mention the impact of a pointable controller on FPS games.

But here's the problem Doug. FPS'es are the peak of technology, the cutting bleeding edge in graphics advancement. Take any graphics new buzzword, and you'll find it in an FPS. The fact that Nintendo geared its console too far away from the other 2 in terms of power has isolated it from the top FPS franchises. Can you imagine Crysis running on a revolution.

And that leads me to my biggest fear with Nintendo's new console. Until more publishers sign on to do games for it, I will remain skeptical about it. Yes a lot of them said it was cool, but very few have actually went out and announced games for it (and the thing is coming out in 6 months). Most developers most probably don't even have a dev kit. Even if this is the best controller in the world, it all boils down to the games, both quantity and quality. I just hope it doesn't turn into another cube.

Until I see some actual gameplay footage, I shall reserve my care.

[Aj_]

Originally Posted by tabacco

Mostly because your attitude makes you not really worth bothering over that much.

That's why you feel the need to reply to my comments so much, with such witty *cough* comments.

[tabacco]

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

But here's the problem Doug. FPS'es are the peak of technology, the cutting bleeding edge in graphics advancement. Take any graphics new buzzword, and you'll find it in an FPS. The fact that Nintendo geared its console too far away from the other 2 in terms of power has isolated it from the topc FPS franchises. Can you imagine Crysis running on a revolution.

And that leads me to my biggest fear with Nintendo's new console. Until more publishers sign on to do games for it, I will remain skeptical about it. Yes a lot of them said it was cool, but very few have actually went out and announced games for it (and the thing is coming out in 6 months). Most developers most probably don't even have a dev kit. Even if this is the best controller in the world, it all boils down to the games, both quantity and quality. I just hope it doesn't turn into another cube.

Fair enough on the graphics, but I still think it'd be a far superior control system for them. Look at how the touch screen look system works on MPH for the ds... it's probably the most intuitive system I've ever seen in place for a game like that on any console, and I suspect directly targeting with the controll would work even better.

The good news is, the devkits are really cheap, so hopefully that will lure in the devs.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by tabacco

Fair enough on the graphics, but I still think it'd be a far superior control system for them. Look at how the touch screen look system works on MPH for the ds... it's probably the most intuitive system I've ever seen in place for a game like that on any console, and I suspect directly targeting with the controll would work even better.

The good news is, the devkits are really cheap, so hopefully that will lure in the devs.

I have no doubt the targetting is ace. I read somewhere about a small portion of metroid was remade for the rev, and you can hit enemies with pinpoint accuracy. I just hope there will be lots of love for it from the publishers, just like the DS.

[tabacco]

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

I have no doubt the targetting is ace. I read somewhere about a small portion of metroid was remade for the rev, and you can hit enemies with pinpoint accuracy. I just hope there will be lots of love for it from the publishers, just like the DS.

Yeah. If anything, the strength of the DS will (hopefully) lead to some revolution love from the industry. Plus the cheap devkits

[Thrik]

If you seriously think that developers are incapable of developing interfaces that require minimal buttons if pushed to do so, you need a reality check; I kind of find it hard to believe that you're seriously advocating the continued complication of game accessibility. Consoles are all about casual gaming, and the companies are keen to open up the market to even more people: simplifying the controller is a key step in doing this.

How are games ever going to become more accessible to new people if we're getting more and more buttons appearing on the controllers every time around? As I said before, the key is not to just slap more buttons on, it's to make better use of what we've got, and streamline if possible.

Whatever anybody may think of the Black & White series, it is a perfect example of how interfaces can be streamlined down to just a few buttons if done properly. It is by no means perfect, but it is a good prototype of how having a million buttons is not necessary, even in a game as complicated as that (especially in the sequel, where an entire city building simulation aspect was tacked on).

And, I think this is the third time that I've said this now, but I never intended that gestures would be preferable as a direct replacement but buttons; obviously, they'd have to be used for less common functions — nobody wants to be swinging a controller around constantly, for every single time that they want to jump.

But, gestures would be ideal for things which aren't so common, such as opening doors, opening inventories, priming weapons, etc; stuff that doesn't need a entire physical button continually devoted to it. As long as the Revolution doesn't require great big swings to perform gestures, which it probably won't, it could work extremely nicely.

[tabacco]

Originally Posted by Thrik

How are games ever going to become more accessible to new people if we're getting more and more buttons appearing on the controllers every time around? As I said before, the key is not to just slap more buttons on, it's to make better use of what we've got, and streamline if possible.

Hey, it's the Iwata keynote in a nutshell!

[insane_cobra]

I think many developers currently developing games for DS might also go and develop something for Revolution. It wouldn't cost them that much more and the remote could be used in the same way a stylus can. Developing for Revolution is reportedly very similar to developing for GameCube, so those few existing Cube developers can already get a lot out of it. Let's not forget that Resident Evil 4 is still one of the best looking games on any platform, Xbox 360 included, and that Twilight Princess has been proclaimed the best game of last year's E3, despite the next gen titles looming on the horizon. Revolution will be 2-3 times as powerful - good enough for me. And with less horse power than PS3 and Xbox 360, maybe we'll finally see the advent of non-photorealistic rendering. Wouldn't you like to see more games looking like Okami, Rez and Killer 7?

Also, the controller is not just the remote. It's the nunchuck controller, remember? It's perfectly suited for most today's hard core genres. FPS? Check. RTS? Check. Racing? Check. Sports? You betcha! Imagine a game like Oblivion in which you can swing your own weapon. Or a FPS in the vein of Jedi Knight, is there a better fit? If they include two controllers with every console, think of boxing games or beat 'em ups. And on top of that, there are gimicky games.

Now, I know there are many ifs in all that, but you can't say it doesn't have the potential.

[tabacco]

and let's not forget adventure games

[avatar_58]

Pfft....I knew people would be dissapointed. Word of advice - E3 is an e-penis match that companies use to trick you into buying their products. Rarely do they turn out even 50% quality of what is shown.

I also agree that the revolution will be the true one to watch. The 360 is an amazing machine, but its just the same old 'more powerful' standard console. Its about time someone gave up in the power race and tried something new. Anyone seen the gyro mouse thats being sold? There was a quake 3 video of it and it gave a nifty idea of what it would be like to play on the rev.

If I do buy a new console, it will be the revolution....but we'll have to wait and see. Seems to be quite a bit of hype without any real substance as of yet. I am one of the few who doesn't see much benefit of the stylus in the DS, so lets hope the gyro controller will be wisely used.

[insane_cobra]

[Aj_]

Originally Posted by Thrik

If you seriously think that developers are incapable of developing interfaces that require minimal buttons if pushed to do so, you need a reality check; I kind of find it hard to believe that you're seriously advocating the continued complication of game accessibility. Consoles are all about casual gaming, and the companies are keen to open up the market to even more people: simplifying the controller is a key step in doing this.

I can't believe you're advocating the degredation of gameing. I don't doubt that there are ways the developers could present more functions with fewer buttons, I'm saying that there aren't any that will be advantageous to the majority of best selling games on consoles.

How are games ever going to become more accessible to new people if we're getting more and more buttons appearing on the controllers every time around? As I said before, the key is not to just slap more buttons on, it's to make better use of what we've got, and streamline if possible.

We have got 10-12 buttons, not everyone is in constant use in every game, but 8-10 are, and obviously two analog sticks and a d-pad.

Whatever anybody may think of the Black & White series, it is a perfect example of how interfaces can be streamlined down to just a few buttons if done properly. It is by no means perfect, but it is a good prototype of how having a million buttons is not necessary, even in a game as complicated as that (especially in the sequel, where an entire city building simulation aspect was tacked on).

It's a perfect example of a game that can use mouse gestures because of its pace and style. Apply this to the top100 games sold on the current consoles. I use mouse gestures in my browser all the time, it would not work for Halo.

And, I think this is the third time that I've said this now, but I never intended that gestures would be preferable as a direct replacement but buttons; obviously, they'd have to be used for less common functions — nobody wants to be swinging a controller around constantly, for every single time that they want to jump.

But, gestures would be ideal for things which aren't so common, such as opening doors, opening inventories, priming weapons, etc; stuff that doesn't need a entire physical button continually devoted to it. As long as the Revolution doesn't require great big swings to perform gestures, which it probably won't, it could work extremely nicely.

Less common functions like switching weapons and opening doors, like in a FPS? Get real. And if you limit the ammount of motion you can use, how many gestures do you think are plausible?

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by Aj_

I can't believe you're advocating the degredation of gameing. I don't doubt that there are ways the developers could present more functions with fewer buttons, I'm saying that there aren't any that will be advantageous to the majority of best selling games on consoles.

Why degradation? Today's games are designed the way they are exactly because of current input peripherals' limitations. You don't need two separate limbs or weapons to attack and block, for instance, why do you need two separate buttons? With Revolution's controller you can do both actions without using any buttons whatsoever.

[CrimsonBlue]

I guess some people will have fun using the revolution remote as a sword, but I sure as hell wouldn't. Just because I like playing games like Oblivion or Zelda doesn't mean I'm interested in fencing with sticks with a friend of mine. I am afraid tennis games and golf games could be totally raped too the same way, and only super-nerds would enjoy them. This system will absolutely NOT make non-players be interested in playing games, it will lessen the demographic to geeky people who like geeky toys.

However, I am subject to change if it shows up my fears are completely out of sync with the reality - and only time will tell.

[insane_cobra]

Um, nerds are the ones used to doing everything by pressing buttons, not the other way around.