[squarejawhero]

I'd love to, but the fact is Condemned is made by the same company, runs the same engine, has a lot of the same design aspects as FEAR and shares the same production designers. TECHNICALLY it's even superior to FEAR as it runs the same engine with more effects. And that's the fact. Whether it's better is opinion, and I think it is because it succeeds instilling an uncomfortable feeling in the player without resorting to copying Asian horror... badly. FEAR is one firefight after another against excellent AI, but the rest of the game is boring... and that's my opinion!

[SakSquash]

Originally Posted by squarejawhero

I'd love to, but the fact is Condemned is made by the same company, runs the same engine, has a lot of the same design aspects as FEAR and shares the same production designers. TECHNICALLY it's even superior to FEAR as it runs the same engine with more effects. And that's the fact. Whether it's better is opinion, and I think it is because it succeeds instilling an uncomfortable feeling in the player without resorting to copying Asian horror... badly. FEAR is one firefight after another against excellent AI, but the rest of the game is boring... and that's my opinion!

I've played both, and I think the two games are so different that comparing them is pointless.

[RLacey]

Originally Posted by squarejawhero

Piss and moan, piss and moan. Go play games instead of attacking a piece of equipment I spent my hard earned on and am 110% happy with.

Um... yes. You're perfectly entitled to enjoy something that you've spent your money on, but that doesn't necessarily make it great or worthwhile. Hell, I bought and enjoyed Red Faction, and I bought and enjoyed The Phantom of the Opera on DVD. People attack my choices of things all the time, but they're entitled to do that.

Mind you, I do think that the attacks levelled at the Xbox 360 are, at least to an extent, unfair, and I do think that the arguments in this thread are both annoyingly personal (from both sides) and extremely polarised.

Personally, I have no intention of getting an Xbox 360 - it's not the kind of console that I'm after. But I wish, to those who have shelled out on one, every enjoyment.

[squarejawhero]

Originally Posted by temporaryscars

I've played both, and I think the two games are so different that comparing them is pointless.

OK, OK, I'm with that. I got carried away. But the technical argument is utterly pointless seeing as it's the same engine, which is the main part of my frustration.

[squarejawhero]

Originally Posted by RLacey

Um... yes. You're perfectly entitled to enjoy something that you've spent your money on, but that doesn't necessarily make it great or worthwhile. Hell, I bought and enjoyed Red Faction, and I bought and enjoyed The Phantom of the Opera on DVD. People attack my choices of things all the time, but they're entitled to do that.

Mind you, I do think that the attacks levelled at the Xbox 360 are, at least to an extent, unfair, and I do think that the arguments in this thread are both annoyingly personal (from both sides) and extremely polarised.

Personally, I have no intention of getting an Xbox 360 - it's not the kind of console that I'm after. But I wish, to those who have shelled out on one, every enjoyment.

Well, it makes it great and worthwhile to me. You say the attacks are unfair, well, it's not fun having someone say that something you spent a fair amount of money in is utter rubbish. Maybe I'm taking it personally, hell, I'm not that affected by any thread outside of typing in it nor am I actually annoyed (I just sound that way sometimes, I guess), but... you've seen how people reacted to me complaining about Still Life based on other comments and reviews! How is this different?

[RLacey]

Originally Posted by squarejawhero

Well, it makes it great and worthwhile to me. You say the attacks are unfair, well, it's not fun having someone say that something you spent a fair amount of money in is utter rubbish. Maybe I'm taking it personally, hell, I'm not that affected by any thread outside of typing in it nor am I actually annoyed (I just sound that way sometimes, I guess), but... you've seen how people reacted to me complaining about Still Life based on other comments and reviews! How is this different?

I'm not saying that you're not entitled to get annoyed, but the implication in your original post (if I read it correctly), was that your enjoyment of the product was directly related to it being great, which isn't specifically true.

I stay out of Still Life threads, mostly on the grounds that I've still yet to play it. I personally believe that everyone is perfectly entitled to state their views on products; it's when it turns from statement or debate into argument that things begin to get problematic.

[SakSquash]

I think many of the attacks are unfair considering most of the people talking trash haven't played one to any extent.

[squarejawhero]

Originally Posted by RLacey

I'm not saying that you're not entitled to get annoyed, but the implication in your original post (if I read it correctly), was that your enjoyment of the product was directly related to it being great, which isn't specifically true.

But I specified why I thought it was great, maybe on other threads. The unified abilities of the system have proved themselves to be easy and useful to me (got my MP3 player hooked up to it now!), and the games and backwards functionality (to whatever extent) have opened me up to games I've missed out on and new ones I've yet to play. I've also got the ability to hook it up to my monitor for HD output, and the games even look better than the average Xbox title on my trusty 24" CRT!

I stay out of Still Life threads, mostly on the grounds that I've still yet to play it. I personally believe that everyone is perfectly entitled to state their views on products; it's when it turns from statement or debate into argument that things begin to get problematic.

I've actually got it now and it still doesn't impress me. A lot of the arguments towards me jabbing at Still Life were let go and continued without anyone pointing anything out, so I don't understand why this was any different now I find myself in a defendent position! Perhaps it's because it's seen as a "console war" that it's being treated another way?

[RLacey]

I'm not angry with any of your statements about the console; I don't own one, I've only played one for about ten minutes maximum, and I'm really in no position to comment as it simply doesn't interest me as a machine.

The only thing I was taking issue with was the suggestion that because you had spent a lot of money on the Xbox 360 any arguments against the console were a) rude, b) a slight against you personally and c) quite plainly wrong.

Anyway, I want to play Perfect Dark Zero one day, if only because I'm a fan of the first game. They'd better have kept co-op...

[AFGNCAAP]

Originally Posted by squarejawhero

Well, it makes it great and worthwhile to me. You say the attacks are unfair, well, it's not fun having someone say that something you spent a fair amount of money in is utter rubbish. Maybe I'm taking it personally, hell, I'm not that affected by any thread outside of typing in it nor am I actually annoyed (I just sound that way sometimes, I guess), but... you've seen how people reacted to me complaining about Still Life based on other comments and reviews! How is this different?

As far as I remember (you mean the oooold post, right?), your thoughts on Still Life were based on your personal pre-judgement and were in fact partly contradicting to what then-available "comments and reviews" said. Link me to this argument if I'm mixing something up. But nevermind that, I can't remember anybody saying back then you should go play games instead of arguing (this being the discussion forums, you know) or implying you are just envious or argumentative ("piss and moan, piss and moan").

But, everybody, cool off. To help you, I decided to lock the rival thread about 360 which is at the moment just doubling this one.

[SoccerDude28]

It's true that FEAR and Condemned are developed by the same developer, but to my knowledge, they were developed by completely different teams in Monolith. And just because two games use the same engine, does not mean they should look as good as each other.

The only edge I would give Condemned is the atmosphere. It is really creepy and scary, thanks to excellent sound effects. But the gameplay is repetitive, and it lacks the brilliant AI that makes FEAR the game it is. Hell if you take the AI away from FEAR, I agree with you, it would be your average DOOM 3 run and gun, but I have never seen enemies as intelligent as in FEAR. They flank you, they jump out of a room breaking the glass if you throw a grenade at them, they realize you are there by pointing the flashlight at you, they wait for you, they even crawl and shoot you, they take cover. If you don't use the slo-mo you will be punished and die, not because the game is unfair, but because how well the AI is implemented. That is the biggest compliment I can give a shooter, which is at the end of the day, all about shooting things.

And to RLacy, this really isn't about the 360, it's comparing two games technically and gameplay wise. Condemned is also a PC game as well.

[squarejawhero]

@AFGNCAAP - Why not just merge the two? That'd be far more productive and any good arguments made there wouldn't need to be reiterated.

As for Still Life, I never contradicted the reviews. I was prejudging based on people's views I trusted on forums AND reviews, so get the facts straight, boyo! But that's another matter. What it's got to do with this, is using third-hand information to prejudge is all. I'm not saying I was wrong or right about that, in fact I eventually caved and said I was wrong in part, but it has to be said - like Fov told me then, it doesn't make for enjoyable reading!

[squarejawhero]

Originally Posted by RLacey

The only thing I was taking issue with was the suggestion that because you had spent a lot of money on the Xbox 360 any arguments against the console were a) rude, b) a slight against you personally and c) quite plainly wrong.

I never actually stated that at all. What I meant was that I was annoyed BECAUSE of this and that SD didn't seem interested in my opinion as an owner, especially in one other thread with regards to my interest in its multifunctionality.

Merge! MERGE!

[AFGNCAAP]

Originally Posted by squarejawhero

Merge! MERGE!

I dunno. Technically, it wouldn't be a problem, but with both threads rather long, it will make a confusing read. Feel free to copy and paste anything worth reiterating.

[squarejawhero]

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

It's true that FEAR and Condemned are developed by the same developer, but to my knowledge, they were developed by completely different teams in Monolith. And just because two games use the same engine, does not mean they should look as good as each other.

I agree, but your issue on design is subjective and we'll never agree on that. My main point is you argued technical issues which are plainly moot, as Condemned running on the 360 is superior for its hi-res backdrops and numerous effects.

The only edge I would give Condemned is the atmosphere. It is really creepy and scary, thanks to excellent sound effects. But the gameplay is repetitive, and it lacks the brilliant AI that makes FEAR the game it is. Hell if you take the AI away from FEAR, I agree with you, it would be your average DOOM 3 run and gun, but I have never seen enemies as intelligent as in FEAR. They flank you, they jump out of a room breaking the glass if you throw a grenade at them, they realize you are there by pointing the flashlight at you, they wait for you, they even crawl and shoot you, they take cover. If you don't use the slo-mo you will be punished and die, not because the game is unfair, but because how well the AI is implemented. That is the biggest compliment I can give a shooter, which is at the end of the day, all about shooting things.

A lot of FEAR's AI is excellent, stuff like crawling is preprogrammed, but yeah, I agree with you completely. But due to FEAR's dull levels, anything outside of the gunfights is incredibly dull, whilst even replaying Condemned and knowing what's going to happen still puts you on edge. The AI may be dumber, but its all about the brutality. Depends what you prefer, tbh, and although I love clearing a room of FEAR's grunts, evading the disturbed denizens of Condemned has proved to be a far more memorable experience.

And to RLacy, this really isn't about the 360, it's comparing two games technically and gameplay wise. Condemned is also a PC game as well.

I'd like to see it run on the PC, but it'd take a brute of a machine to keep up with the EFX I've witnessed at play on the 360.

edit - oh, and -

Originally Posted by myself

The Xbox 360 actually has a specially made GPU that you won't find on PC's, optimised to its three processors. So, no, it's not actually a PC. The PS3, on the other hand, uses what is basically a stock 7800GTX from Nvidia and component parts.

There's a great interview in Edge with the guy from ATI that actually took part in creating the 360's graphics component and what he thinks of the PS3, and how all the graphics you're seeing now based around the PS3 are being processed in actual fact a high-end PC and not by any PS3 retail parts. Essentially you haven't even seen what the 360 is capable of by any degree, even Oblivion. Bear in mind some of the best stuff on the 360 took four years to arrive (and each game got better from Splinter Cell to Chaos Theory, which used the latest shader tech on 4 year old tech which could handle it) you can bet that the stuff you're seeing now is merely scratching the surface.

Microsoft have also unified their specifically created hardware and development tools into a really streamlined system, whilst Sony, having relied on parts from different companies, have given developers an SDK which is having to be constantly revised due to incompatabilities within its own systems different parts... so I've heard from a PS3 developer (I think on the Xbox Scene forums).

I know this'll get lost if I don't repost it here!

[Lucien21]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucien21
Hey Temp.

Is that your gamercard you link to in your sig.

You finally got an Xbox 360 then.

How you likey?

Is that pool game any good?

Geometry Wars RULE. It's so much fun.

Whoops. Sorry. Didn't see this. Yeah, I got one on the 28th of November. I had to camp out again for 12 hours, but it was worth it. I'm in love with the thing. The pool game is pretty fun, but it seems like the computer cheats when you play it. Fun to play over live. I never played the english version of pool until I got this game. And Geometry Wars does rule. Hard as hell, but fun. Did you get one?

Yup got one on Friday last week.

Loving it so far:

[SakSquash]

Originally Posted by Lucien21

Yup got one on Friday last week.

Loving it so far:

Wicked. What's your gamertag? I'll add you.

[Lucien21]

Originally Posted by temporaryscars

Wicked. What's your gamertag? I'll add you.

Lucien21.

Very original I know

Originally Posted by temporaryscars

I've played both, and I think the two games are so different that comparing them is pointless.

QFT

[Lucien21]

Originally Posted by SamNMax

QFT

Quantum Field Theory