Echo review

Kolorabi · 07-20-2005, 02:15 PM

Good, well-written review

Have you played Return to Mysterious Island, Emily? If so, would you say the two games are similar? I'm not a huge fan of first person adventures in general, but I really liked RtMI (despite some flaws), and will definitely buy Echo if it resembles RtMI.

Fien · 07-20-2005, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kolorabi

Good, well-written review

Have you played Return to Mysterious Island, Emily? If so, would you say the two games are similar? I'm not a huge fan of first person adventures in general, but I really liked RtMI (despite some flaws), and will definitely buy Echo if it resembles RtMI.

Emily I'm not, but I've played Echo. For me, the most important difference is that RtMI was extremely non-linear, except the end perhaps, and Echo is extremely linear. Everything hinges on doing things in the right order. So no RtMI-type of inventory in Echo either.

Intrepid Homoludens · 07-20-2005, 02:35 PM

Another well written, informative review, fov! I've no desire whatsoever to play this game (not interested, really), but it's good to know that 'traditional' adventuring is getting on well enough.

Ninth · 07-20-2005, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fienepien

Emily I'm not, but I've played Echo. For me, the most important difference is that RtMI was extremely non-linear, except the end perhaps, and Echo is extremely linear. Everything hinges on doing things in the right order. So no RtMI-type of inventory in Echo either.

But since RtMI's inventory was his nicest feature, doesn't it take a lot of interest out of the game?

***Jackal*** · 07-20-2005, 02:59 PM

I've only played partway through Echo, but I wouldn't say it's much like RTMI at all. There are a lot of surface similarities, sure, but it plays much differently. It's certainly far more (traditional) puzzle intensive from what I've played so far.

Ninth, you'll certainly miss RTMI's inventory system, but it's probably overstating to say that takes most of the interest out of the game. It's just far more traditional than RTMI was, and sinks or swims on the strength of its puzzles and setting.

***fov*** · 07-20-2005, 03:15 PM

This is actually the first Kheops game I've played, but when I met with Benoit Hozjan in March he likened Echo to The Egyptian Prophecy (similar interface, similar use of in-game documentation), and likened the upcoming Voyage to RtMI. It makes sense when you look at their production schedules... Echo was started before RtMI was finished, so they didn't know yet what features of RtMI people were going to like and dislike.

So yeah, I wouldn't buy the game just because you loved RtMI and are expecting something similar. But I would buy it if the premise intriuges you (especially if you're not a story snob like I am!) Kheops is good at what they do, and it's not as if being "not like RtMI" makes the game bad by default.

***Jackal*** · 07-20-2005, 04:58 PM

Fienepien, I don't get what you think is similar. Or at least, saying they're similar is more misleading than saying they're different. The weaknesses you mention are anything but specific to these games, so to say they're similar for that reason is to categorize many games as being alike.

My point was simply that if not for the surface similarities (not just great graphics, which I didn't mention), I couldn't really tell this game is from the same developer as RTMI. Which sort of makes sense, as this was actually a collaboration with two other developers, not exclusively Kheops.

EDIT: Note that I'm not offering any kind of personal judgement on the quality of this one, as I haven't played enough of it yet.

***Jackal*** · 07-20-2005, 05:19 PM

Wouldn't it have been easier to just answer my question?

Disagree all you like; I simply didn't understand it.

***fov*** · 07-20-2005, 05:25 PM

Well, they do use the same engine, so in addition to the graphics I'd expect stuff like the way the screen pans, the appearance of the dialogue trees, the menus, and the animated cursors are going to be something like they were in RtMI. These may be little things but they can add up to a similar experience for the player.

Kind of how some people think Syberia and Still Life are similar even though they're nothing alike, gameplay-wise. (I'm not one of those people, mind you.

But I can understand why someone would feel that way.)

***Jackal*** · 07-20-2005, 05:32 PM

Right, but that's exactly what I meant by the surface similarities.

I can tell by LOOKING at the games that they're from the same team. Just not by playing them.

Anyway, nice review, Emily.

Fien · 07-20-2005, 05:41 PM

Everything deleted. Sorry I voiced my opinion. Everything should be fine now.

***fov*** · 07-20-2005, 08:40 PM

You didn't have to do that.

Ninth · 07-21-2005, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fienepien

Everything deleted. Sorry I voiced my opinion. Everything should be fine now.

ARG! I'm trying to decide whether to buy the game, you know... This discussion could have been helpful to me.

Bad Fienepien

For some reason, I'm in no hurry to buy it. That's weird, because I really liked RtMI, and even though the similarities may be superficial, they're still here (I found the demo quite similar to RtMI, in its "nature adventure" spirit, in you know what I mean). Also, the fact that the demo crashed on my computer kind of toned down my excitement...

Kolorabi · 07-21-2005, 12:56 AM

Thanks for the replies to my initial question, too bad I didn't get to read Fienepien's replies before they were deleted. I will definitely try the demo at least (downloading now), the game still seems very interesting.

I read the Voyage preview yesterday, btw - that's one more game for my personal hype-o-meter

Fien · 07-21-2005, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninth

ARG! I'm trying to decide whether to buy the game, you know... This discussion could have been helpful to me.

Bad Fienepien

Yeah, Bad Betje, tell me about it.

Quote:

For some reason, I'm in no hurry to buy it. That's weird, because I really liked RtMI, and even though the similarities may be superficial, they're still here (I found the demo quite similar to RtMI, in its "nature adventure" spirit, in you know what I mean). Also, the fact that the demo crashed on my computer kind of toned down my excitement...

For your and Kolorabi's sake I'll summarize my deleted response: RtMI was extremely non-linear, Echo is extremely linear. As a consequence, there's no RtMI-type of inventory. For *me*, Echo was disappointing.

PS: Shit, I already said that and THAT post is still there. Oh well...

Ninth · 07-21-2005, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fienepien

Yeah, Bad Betje, tell me about it.

Ok. Bad Betje!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fienepien

For your and Kolorabi's sake I'll summarize my deleted response: RtMI was extremely non-linear, Echo is extremely linear. As a consequence, there's no RtMI-type of inventory. For *me*, Echo was disappointing.

PS: Shit, I already said that and THAT post is still there. Oh well...

Thanks anyway.
I've just realised that Emily said the story wasn't really interesting. And the premises aren't intriguing to me... And it hasn't got RtMI's fun inventory puzzles. Hm, I think I'll pass for now. I'm too busy replaying old games anyway.

***Jackal*** · 07-21-2005, 07:19 AM

Gah! This thread has gone so unnecessarily awry.

Actually, the sum total of the completely harmless and non-offensive, no-need-to-delete-posts disagreement was in how much Echo feels similar to RTMI. And that really is the important question for the many people who liked that game.

I find the gameplay experience (puzzle type, linearity, premise, mood, edutainment factor, etc.) different enough to warrant mentioning, as I wouldn't like people buying the game with false expectations. Fienepien seems to feel they're more similar, and I (and obviously others) would still like to hear that viewpoint elaborated. It's not like there's a right or wrong; it's just inevitable difference in experience.

gillyruless · 07-21-2005, 08:38 AM

Wow. This is a momentous occasion . Jack actually causing a ruckus instead of calming one down. You know what they say, there is a first time for anything.

Nice review, Emily. Too bad that reading your review actually convinced me not to play Echo.

Fien · 07-22-2005, 06:23 AM

The games *feel* similar to me. The nature atmosphere, like Ninth said. The nice graphics, like I said. And yes, many of the puzzles too. In both games you use the inventory to make tools and other useful things. You prepare food, make fires. The only real difference is that you can do it in more than one way in RtMI. For instance, in RtMI there are monkeys to get rid of, in Echo there are wolves. Same puzzle, same inventory objects, same solution. (Except that in RtMI you have the option of avoiding the monkeys.)

***fov*** · 07-22-2005, 06:37 AM

In Echo you have the option of avoiding the wolves. But not on purpose.

Spoiler:
I didn't run in to them at all. I think it's because I climbed the tree before Lharik (sp?) asked me to find his missing thingamabob.

I wouldn't exactly call that alternate gameplay, though.

It sounds to me like the puzzles in the second part of the game (once you get out of the first cave and into the valley) are more RtMI-like than the puzzles at the very beginning.

07-20-2005, 02:15 PM	#1
Kolorabi Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 900	Echo review Good, well-written review Have you played Return to Mysterious Island, Emily? If so, would you say the two games are similar? I'm not a huge fan of first person adventures in general, but I really liked RtMI (despite some flaws), and will definitely buy Echo if it resembles RtMI. Share Share this post on Twitter

07-20-2005, 02:35 PM	#3
Intrepid Homoludens merely human Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 22,309	Another well written, informative review, fov! I've no desire whatsoever to play this game (not interested, really), but it's good to know that 'traditional' adventuring is getting on well enough. Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ platform: laptop, iPhone 3Gs \| gaming: x360, PS3, psp, iPhone, wii \| blog: a space alien \| book: the moral landscape: how science can determine human values by sam harris \| games: l.a.noire, portal 2, brink, dragon age 2, heavy rain \| sites: NPR, skeptoid, gaygamer \| music: ray lamontagne, adele, washed out, james blake \| twitter: a_space_alien

07-20-2005, 02:59 PM	#5
*Jackal* Hopeful skeptic Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 7,743	I've only played partway through Echo, but I wouldn't say it's much like RTMI at all. There are a lot of surface similarities, sure, but it plays much differently. It's certainly far more (traditional) puzzle intensive from what I've played so far. Ninth, you'll certainly miss RTMI's inventory system, but it's probably overstating to say that takes most of the interest out of the game. It's just far more traditional than RTMI was, and sinks or swims on the strength of its puzzles and setting. Share Share this post on Twitter

07-20-2005, 03:15 PM	#6
*fov* Rattenmonster Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Francisco Posts: 10,404	This is actually the first Kheops game I've played, but when I met with Benoit Hozjan in March he likened Echo to The Egyptian Prophecy (similar interface, similar use of in-game documentation), and likened the upcoming Voyage to RtMI. It makes sense when you look at their production schedules... Echo was started before RtMI was finished, so they didn't know yet what features of RtMI people were going to like and dislike. So yeah, I wouldn't buy the game just because you loved RtMI and are expecting something similar. But I would buy it if the premise intriuges you (especially if you're not a story snob like I am!) Kheops is good at what they do, and it's not as if being "not like RtMI" makes the game bad by default. Share Share this post on Twitter

07-20-2005, 04:58 PM	#7
*Jackal* Hopeful skeptic Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 7,743	Fienepien, I don't get what you think is similar. Or at least, saying they're similar is more misleading than saying they're different. The weaknesses you mention are anything but specific to these games, so to say they're similar for that reason is to categorize many games as being alike. My point was simply that if not for the surface similarities (not just great graphics, which I didn't mention), I couldn't really tell this game is from the same developer as RTMI. Which sort of makes sense, as this was actually a collaboration with two other developers, not exclusively Kheops. EDIT: Note that I'm not offering any kind of personal judgement on the quality of this one, as I haven't played enough of it yet. Share Share this post on Twitter

07-20-2005, 05:19 PM	#8
*Jackal* Hopeful skeptic Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 7,743	Wouldn't it have been easier to just answer my question? Disagree all you like; I simply didn't understand it. Share Share this post on Twitter

07-20-2005, 05:25 PM	#9
*fov* Rattenmonster Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Francisco Posts: 10,404	Well, they do use the same engine, so in addition to the graphics I'd expect stuff like the way the screen pans, the appearance of the dialogue trees, the menus, and the animated cursors are going to be something like they were in RtMI. These may be little things but they can add up to a similar experience for the player. Kind of how some people think Syberia and Still Life are similar even though they're nothing alike, gameplay-wise. (I'm not one of those people, mind you. But I can understand why someone would feel that way.) Share Share this post on Twitter

07-20-2005, 05:32 PM	#10
*Jackal* Hopeful skeptic Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 7,743	Right, but that's exactly what I meant by the surface similarities. I can tell by LOOKING at the games that they're from the same team. Just not by playing them. Anyway, nice review, Emily. Share Share this post on Twitter

07-20-2005, 05:41 PM	#11
Fien Senior female member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Holland Posts: 3,706	Everything deleted. Sorry I voiced my opinion. Everything should be fine now. Share Share this post on Twitter

07-20-2005, 08:40 PM	#12
*fov* Rattenmonster Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Francisco Posts: 10,404	You didn't have to do that. Share Share this post on Twitter

07-21-2005, 12:56 AM	#14
Kolorabi Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 900	Thanks for the replies to my initial question, too bad I didn't get to read Fienepien's replies before they were deleted. I will definitely try the demo at least (downloading now), the game still seems very interesting. I read the Voyage preview yesterday, btw - that's one more game for my personal hype-o-meter Share Share this post on Twitter

07-21-2005, 07:19 AM	#17
*Jackal* Hopeful skeptic Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 7,743	Gah! This thread has gone so unnecessarily awry. Actually, the sum total of the completely harmless and non-offensive, no-need-to-delete-posts disagreement was in how much Echo feels similar to RTMI. And that really is the important question for the many people who liked that game. I find the gameplay experience (puzzle type, linearity, premise, mood, edutainment factor, etc.) different enough to warrant mentioning, as I wouldn't like people buying the game with false expectations. Fienepien seems to feel they're more similar, and I (and obviously others) would still like to hear that viewpoint elaborated. It's not like there's a right or wrong; it's just inevitable difference in experience. Share Share this post on Twitter

07-21-2005, 08:38 AM	#18
gillyruless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,022	Wow. This is a momentous occasion . Jack actually causing a ruckus instead of calming one down. You know what they say, there is a first time for anything. Nice review, Emily. Too bad that reading your review actually convinced me not to play Echo. Share Share this post on Twitter

07-22-2005, 06:23 AM	#19
Fien Senior female member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Holland Posts: 3,706	The games feel similar to me. The nature atmosphere, like Ninth said. The nice graphics, like I said. And yes, many of the puzzles too. In both games you use the inventory to make tools and other useful things. You prepare food, make fires. The only real difference is that you can do it in more than one way in RtMI. For instance, in RtMI there are monkeys to get rid of, in Echo there are wolves. Same puzzle, same inventory objects, same solution. (Except that in RtMI you have the option of avoiding the monkeys.) Share Share this post on Twitter

07-22-2005, 06:37 AM	#20
*fov* Rattenmonster Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Francisco Posts: 10,404	In Echo you have the option of avoiding the wolves. But not on purpose. Spoiler: I didn't run in to them at all. I think it's because I climbed the tree before Lharik (sp?) asked me to find his missing thingamabob. I wouldn't exactly call that alternate gameplay, though. It sounds to me like the puzzles in the second part of the game (once you get out of the first cave and into the valley) are more RtMI-like than the puzzles at the very beginning. Share Share this post on Twitter

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