[Melanie68]

They seem puzzling...

I don't think we ever try to be (at least I don't try to be) but then sometimes men can be puzzling too (which makes them fun).

[Jeysie]

I've always been the one to "make the first move" with guys, but they always tell me they're not interested in me that way. I've never *once* had a guy (my own age, anyway) seriously flirt with me or ask me out.

As for the talking to men/women thing, however... don't see it. In my experience, the main reason folks have problems with the opposite gender is because they're expecting to need to treat them differently based on their gender, instead of just talking to them normally and treating them like an individual.

Peace & Luv, Liz

[Hammerite]

Originally Posted by Lee in Limbo

Ham, the big problem with giving you tips is that it's a case-by-case situation. All girls are different, and the only way you will ever make an impression is to simply start meeting them, talking to them, listening to them, and getting to know them. Become friends. It may not work out, but then, most things in life don't work out the way you'd intended, but you can learn an awful lot along the way.

Don't become stalkerish, but make a point of actually learning about and understanding the girls in your life, and as you get to know them, you'll start to see very clearly what it is that you need to do in order to impress them.

In my experience, most girls pretty much tell you what they're looking for. You just have to listen. They seem puzzling, but there are ways of getting them to talk to you about what they really want. The 'trick', if it can be called that, is to actually say what's on your mind; i.e. 'I never how to approach a woman I'm attracted to. I have no idea what women like, and whether they see any of that in me.' You may want to hold that little card close to your chest for a while and wait for her to say something that makes it natural to confess your uncertainty.

The point is, talk to her. Actually talk to her. And for goodness' sakes, LISTEN. What you learn from talking to and listening to girls you like is information you cannot buy for any price, so don't waste the opportunity by trying to tell her how it should be. Listen and learn. And remember, she may not fall into your arms just because you listened to her, but what you learn from talking to her will teach you things you need to know if you ever want a woman to do so.

And besides, women are a lot more fun to talk to then men, as far as I'm concerned. You have almost twice as many things to talk about, and you learn something new every time. Plus, you get things explained to you, which is never a bad thing, unless they think you're not merely an ignorant guy but a complete idiot... in which case, maybe your affections are a little misplaced, and you should move on to greener pastures.

so if i just go up to her and say "hi", what do i say afterwards?

[Melanie68]

How are you doing today?

[Catbert]

Originally Posted by bulldog

Some girls in Hams age bracket aren’t scared of rejection they are scared of how it might look. They might fell like if they make the first move then they appear cheap and easy. Ham should follow his heart and just go with the flow. Talk to a girl and see what she likes and dislikes.

Ham as long as you don’t have six arms and four legs growing out of your head then you will be fine. Most people your age feel like they aren’t attractive hell most people in my age bracket don’t feel attractive. You need to build up your self confidence and the rest will follow.

Yeah, except sometimes it backfires. Last time I got my self-confidence up for something like that, she ended up telling me she was married. Being the douchebag I am, I actually didn't care at the moment, but got second thoughts later. Check their fingers first, man.

[samIamsad]

[Jatsie]

AL BUNDY!!

o

[Lee in Limbo]

Originally Posted by Hammerite

so if i just go up to her and say "hi", what do i say afterwards?

It helps if you have something on you mind that you think she'll understand besides your genetic need to partake in mating rituals. For starters, take a look around you and see if there's something interesting and amusing you can say about the environment you find yourselves in. Try not to be critical though. You may be putting down something she happens to like. I'm fond of commenting about how fast or slow things seem to be going. You can usually suss out whether she enjoys the pace and tailor your comment to take that position into account. Always be honest though. If you think things are going too slow or fast, stick to your position, but mention that you're not sure you enjoy the pace the same way she might.

That's not an iron clad ice breaker. It's just a way I start some conversations. If something more spectacularly interesting is happening, like a really terrible DJ (careful, they may be the girl's friend) or something else irritating, like the most boring teacher in history (or math or English or whatever ), comment on that instead .

If you make it past this stage and don't get a frown (you're aiming for smile, but a look of interest will do. Boredom isn't good, and irritation is a hint that youa re not welcome and should move along), try moving on to ask her something relevant to the immediate conversation, like 'Are you taking notes?' or 'Did you understand what that one girl was talking about?' or 'Do you think the DJ takes requests?'.

See, the thing is, you have to imporvise, Ham. But working with a light but humourous comment about something that's pretty obvious (and thus common to both of you) is what you're looking for. Maybe try paying a little attention to what she is focussed on before you approach her, and get an idea if you can of whether she is enjoying the setting/situation before you go into your spiel about how much this sucks. Negativity only works if you're talking to a fellow malcontent. If she's happy, perhaps ask her if it's the teacher/DJ/arresting officer she's enjoying, or if she's just visualizing them naked.

Try to have fun. Because really, if you're not enjoying yourself in her company, what's the point?

And as Jeysie and Melanie alluded, it helps to remember that girls are not really different from you. They just have a slightly different frame of reference, and are generally used to be on the receiving end of unrequited affection, so you won't be talking precisely the same language if you start deluging her with fascinating details about your highest score in Quake II or whatever her current favourite geek hobby is (AFTER you've talked with her about the teacher/DJ/arresting officer/smell of the barnyard etc...). Maybe sound her out on what geekery she enjoys, if at all. 'Hey, I was just wondering, have you ever played World of Warcraft? No? I'm not really a fan of it either. I've just met a number of girls (mostly online, mind you) who seem to be into that these days. Do you play any video games at all? I'm a pretty big fan of them myself.' And if she only has interests other than geekery, you may have some homework to do, although I'd suggest that she's not right for you.

[Starflux]

National organisation of men against amazonian masterhood!

Hmm, I've never really gone out, so I don't often enter into a situation where I can flirt. Also, since I have no experience I feel uncomfortable flirting in any normal way. However, as soon as I feel comfortable with a girl, or maybe I should say when I consider them friends and I have nothing to fear of them, I will ocassionally just go and tease them, play with them, etc. Which I greatly enjoy. Although in all honesty, I usually only dare that with women that I don't actually fancy; I'd be too embarrassed otherwise. That may defeat the point -if you can call it flirting- but it is damn fun, and harmless.

I may go out some more in the future though, and then maybe I'll start flirting a bit. Could be good for shaping my character socially. I know I can be suave enough, if only I find the right attitude and things to talk about.

[samIamsad]

Originally Posted by Jat316sob

AL BUNDY!!

o

To behonest, I still have that shirt, although I never actually had the guts to wear it.

[Squinky]

Originally Posted by Hammerite

uh... ... how much older?
and why?

Heh, I threw that out as a tongue-in-cheek aside because, in my experience, getting positive attention from someone who's way out of your league does wonders for your self-esteem.

Originally Posted by Flux

However, as soon as I feel comfortable with a girl, or maybe I should say when I consider them friends and I have nothing to fear of them, I will ocassionally just go and tease them, play with them, etc. Which I greatly enjoy.

I found this bit really interesting, because this is the only way I'll ever flirt with anyone. Conversely, the one way I can tell whether I'm really comfortable around someone is whether I'm courageous enough to make flirtatious remarks to them. And for some extremely odd reason, it doesn't matter if they're male or female, or whether I'd ever consider having a romantic relationship with them or not; to me, flirting is not a means to get to know a person, but merely yet another way of playfully teasing someone you care about.

It's also worth saying that the only people I've ended up in romantic relationships with were among this subset of people I consider close friends and would be comfortable teasing. Because I wouldn't ever seriously consider dating anyone I couldn't be myself around. That's a no-brainer for me.

The hard part, in my case, is how to make close friends. So far, my only working answer is "it just happens"...

[Fairygdmther]

My take, FWIW - Stop trying to impress a girl. Be yourself.

Taking Lee's cue - I was in a club where a guy came up to me, to buy me a drink - I was waiting for a friend, and wasn't looking at all. The comic on stage had just said something very funny and I'd laughed out loud. This guy's comment to me was, "I've got to meet you - I love to see a girl with a good sense of humor and will laugh freely. If you haven't got a good sense of humor, you aren't worth a plug nickel." That got my attention - it wasn't one of the dumb lines you hear so often. And it was appropriate to the situation.

Another of Lee's words of wisdom - Listen! When I was young and a guy asked me what I did, if I said I was a nurse, one of two things happened - either their eyes glaze over, like 'please tell me she's not going to bore me with that crap' or they'd spout stupid lewd comments, a certain turn-off. I learned to say I was an operating room nurse (which I was). This at least caught their interest, if only for the 'eeeww' factor.

One thing, and it seems almost silly to say it, but I will anyway. While you can't generalize about all people, there are some topics you don't want to introduce in an opening conversation. For instance, unless you know a girl is a rabid football fan, don't go on and on about it. You don't want to alienate her right away. For a girl, don't go on and on about getting your nails done, no matter how great they look to you. There are many topics that both sexes share interest in - movies, TV, music, etc. Start with a 'what kind of music do you like?' or 'Seen any good movies lately?' Find out her interests, and talk about shared likes and dislikes. Again, expounding upon Lee's advice.

FGM

[bulldog]

Originally Posted by Catbert

Yeah, except sometimes it backfires. Last time I got my self-confidence up for something like that, she ended up telling me she was married. Being the douchebag I am, I actually didn't care at the moment, but got second thoughts later. Check their fingers first, man.

That is very true, sometimes it does backfire, but If Ham does go up to her and say Hi, then say something like "How are you today" I think that she will respond to that in a good way.

[Lee in Limbo]

Originally Posted by Squinky

Heh, I threw that out as a tongue-in-cheek aside because, in my experience, getting positive attention from someone who's way out of your league does wonders for your self-esteem.

*smiles and nods*

Originally Posted by Squinky

Because I wouldn't ever seriously consider dating anyone I couldn't be myself around. That's a no-brainer for me.

Me too, actually.

Originally Posted by Squinky

The hard part, in my case, is how to make close friends. So far, my only working answer is "it just happens"...

You do alright, when you want to.

Originally Posted by Fairygdmther

Again, expounding upon Lee's advice.

FGM

*nods and smiles* Thank you so very much, dear lady.

[Catbert]

About fairy's post, always and I mean ALWAYS, make sure they have a sense of humor. Girls that don't laugh become boring from the second hour on. Humor makes everything much easier to work. Unfortunately they're also rare.

[Squinky]

Everyone has a sense of humour, though. The trick is finding someone whose sense of humour aligns with your own.

[Catbert]

No, not everyone has a sense of humor. Laughing at falling people and dick jokes isn't a sense of humor, it's just being dumb.

[Lee in Limbo]

No one suggested that everyone has a good sense of humour... only that they have one. I've met a number of people in my life who were a little too stern and blocked off from seeing the humourous side of things to really let go, and I've met plenty who just don't share my sense of humour.

Regardless, what you are both saying is true, in the sense that, if your sense of humour and theirs do not mesh, you're better off walking away. You may become good friends, but on an emotional level, you'll never be satisfied with one another, because there is no joy between you. A good rapport with your partner is essential, particularly when things get weird or stupid.

[bulldog]

I agree with Lee, if your sense of humor doesn’t mesh then back away. I dated a guy one time and I sense of humor didn’t match and it was dull city.

[Catbert]

Adding a little other something to this discussion, because I'm an attention whore (don't worry Ham I'm just letting something out). For the first time in a while and the second in my life, the possibility of getting married comes to me. Now I like my woman. A lot. But this scares me to the point where I can tell you it's 6:44 where I live and I haven't slept a full hour this night. It scares me a lot, but it also feels... liberating, in a sense, I don't know why. I imagine myself being the first in my group of friends being married and everything that would represent and it feels good, but ever since I was a kid marriage scared me, I'd see so many unhappy people, and I'm only 21.

Ah crap..