[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by pinkgothic

I beg to differ, it should make a difference. We feel empathy for the people we know - or rather, in this case, we think we know (yay for mass media) - because we want to (subconsciously) know if a person 'deserves' our emotions; in this case, our support. There's nothing hypocritical about it. Feeling empathy for the many, many people that died today - whom we didn't know - would border destructive stupidity. Hypocrisy? I'd be fairly freaked out if people cared for my death whom I'd never met or knew had seen me.

I'll admit it may be hard to feel empathy towards someone you know nothing about, but it's not impossible. You read about people dying in an earthquake and you can feel bad about them, even though they're all total strangers. But this is a celebrity figure and we feel for them more easily. It's natural, but it's not fair. On the other hand, maybe it's a good thing more people aren't overcome by Weltschmerz.

There's another hypocritical thing about the whole phenomenon of mourning (famous) people. How many of us ever gave a single thought about this guy's personal life while he was still among us? About his and his family's problems? But now that he's dead, suddenly everyone seems to care. The fact is that most people never gave the slightest ƒuck about him and they'll probably forget about his death in a day or two, if not in a couple of minutes. We just need to show off how compassionate and humane we are because that's what's expected from us and that's what makes us feel good inside. Frankly, I don't like that at all.

[pinkgothic]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

I'll admit it may be hard to feel empathy towards someone you know nothing about, but it's not impossible. You read about people dying in an earthquake and you can feel bad about them, even though they're all total strangers.

I don't, nor do I feel it's healthy to do so. I don't know these people. For all I know, they might've been jerks.

Nonetheless, I feel I ought to point out that you seem to have a vastly different concept of "hypocrisy" than I do - for you, it seems to be synonymous with "unfair"/"favouritism". Clearly you're not saying people are expecting the world to mourn their death, which is why calling it hypocritical implies to me (and probably to a bunch of other people reading your post).

Nevermind that I don't find it the slightest bit unfair, either.

What I do find a bit suboptimal is that we only "knew" Steve Irwin - meaning, we (probably) never saw him in the flesh, just over the TV screen, repeatedly. That is the only thing I find can be criticised here - that we believe we emotionally know someone because of seeing someone on TV a few times. Not and never in that we are selective about who we care about.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

There's another hypocritical thing about the whole phenomenon of mourning (famous) people. How many of us ever gave a single thought about this guy's personal life while he was still among us? About his and his family's problems?

That's because we didn't really know him. Or did you know about this guy's personal life and his family's problems? No? Well, hey! How can you care about something you don't know about? How can anyone honestly expect you to care about problems you don't know exist?

There is no hypocrisy here, insane_cobra. Ignorance, yes, but that's the whole side-effect of mass media. Please stop demonising human nature.

Personally, I'm glad we can care about what we do see of people, such as Steve Irwin's antics, and associate it with that person, be that association good or bad. It may not be the whole picture, but in the end, you should honestly ask yourself how often you care about the people here, on this forum and their real life problems. People you can say you 'know' a lot more than Steve Irwin. People you "should" care about a helluva lot more.

Mind you, I don't think you should. You can only act on what you know or suspect. But to call that selective acting as by knowledge or suspicion hypocrisy? I don't get it.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

But now that he's dead, suddenly everyone seems to care. The fact is that most people never gave the slightest ƒuck about him and they'll probably forget about his death in a day or two, if not in a couple of minutes.

I can't speak for everyone in this thread, but for the reasons mentioned, I'm quite in shock. I doubt that will fade anytime today - it certainly hasn't faded in the past hours. Again, I don't understand why you want to measure hypocrisy - or unfairness - on this. I'd rather I could forget it more or less instantly because I know that I barely knew him. Forgetting it more or less instantly is the sane thing that should happen here.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

We just need to show off how compassionate and humane we are because that's what's expected from us and that's what makes us feel good inside. Frankly, I don't like that at all.

*grr* Well, thanks for your input, but frankly, I don't feel good inside at all right now, nor did I post because I thought it would show how "compassionate" and "humane" I am - because frankly, I'm not, nor do I want to be seen as such. I don't do that altruism, loving/caring for everyone crap. Thanks for stuffing me in that bag. I'll remember and avoid posting in threads that might make me look like what I'm clearly not. */grr*

Going by what you said, people either have the option of being unfairly heartless (people who don't care about the total strangers that died today)... heartless (people who don't care about total strangers or Steve Irwin [and his personal life])... or heartless and not admitting it (people who say they care about Steve Irwin). Do you ever assume sincerity?

Edit: Bwahaha @ link. Thanks. Good stuff.

Edit II: Apologies for those of you who saw a long post here, then saw a notice, and now see the long post again and are confused. I was afraid I'd offended insane_cobra after his response, so I wanted to be clear on that in PM - I didn't think it would be appropriate to keep a post up that was offending him, especially without a response, as that's very "last wordy" in a nasty way. Apparently, t'is okay, so it's back.

[insane_cobra]

Oh Christ, I don't feel like responding to all that, you win.

[Jazhara7]

insane, I never was one to talk bad about people. I search for the good things in people, even if I don't really like them. Even if I dislike them, I won't treat them badly - Personal dislike is no fair reason to deserve a different treatment than anyone else. Steve Irwin gets the same size slice of cake as my best friends, the one student from my class that got on everyone's nerves including mine by being such a spoiled brat, my sister, anyone else, and I. I always try to tell people the truth, because I think it is often better than faking that everything is alright. I tell people what I think, and I tell it clearly. But that does not mean I am rude in doing so. I can take a long time on thinking what to say, and if I can't find a way to say it, I remain silent, either forever, or until I find a way. I don't tell people lies if I can avoid it (which I usually can), not only because I am not a very convincing liar.

When I say I am saddened at Steve Irwin's Death, I am being honest. I am also being honest that he wasn't my most favourite person. I would not show up at his funeral, because I didn't know him well enough to do that, and if I were to do so, I would not be honest.

But that does not change anything. He gets the same size slice of cake.



- _ _ _ _ _ _ _

[Jelena]

Originally Posted by pinkgothic

I beg to differ, it should make a difference. We feel empathy for the people we know - or rather, in this case, we think we know (yay for mass media) - because we want to (subconsciously) know if a person 'deserves' our emotions; in this case, our support. There's nothing hypocritical about it. Feeling empathy for the many, many people that died today - whom we didn't know - would border destructive stupidity. Hypocrisy? I'd be fairly freaked out if people cared for my death whom I'd never met or knew had seen me.

Agree!
If I was to feel the pain of the whole world I would go mad in no time.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

There's another hypocritical thing about the whole phenomenon of mourning (famous) people. How many of us ever gave a single thought about this guy's personal life while he was still among us? About his and his family's problems? But now that he's dead, suddenly everyone seems to care.

Perhaps it reminds us of our own mortality and vulnerability. All we know is what we have right now. There isn't a promise of a tomorrow. Personanlly I'm more afraid that my children and husband will die before me than I fear my own death.

[SoccerDude28]

So sad. I really liked the crocodile hunter.

[Maquisard]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Oh well... It's terrible, of course, but he's just one of thousands of people who died today, I'm not any more sorry for him than for some poor nobody who died who knows where from who knows what. The fact that we all knew what he looked like and what he did for living shouldn't make any difference, but I guess that's the hypocritical nature of human empathy.

And now, I shall quote Stalin to make an illustration about what it means to be humane (or human) : "one death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic." It's sad that thousands of people died today, but without being intimately familiar with the circumstances around each of their deaths, there's really no point mourning for them. There's a reason why the media doesn't give you just statistics when wanting to inspire sympathy for a suffering group of people: they tell individual stories. Knowing the circumstances around Steve Irwin's death, there are several reasons to be sad about his passing:
1) the death was untimely
2) it was (possibly) painful
3) he had a wife & children
4) and (a somewhat selfish reason) he was an entertainer, who will produce no more merrymaking for the masses.

[EvoG]

Well Muzzy and:

5) He was a genuinely 'good' person

...you can't fake that. You can tell when someone is truly kind and thats what makes this really sad for me. You love the guy for his enthusiasm and complete lack of ego. He loved the environment (spent his money on buying land for conservation) and loved his animals. THATS the part that makes this difficult to wrap your head around and all the more sad.

As Pink rather eloquently in her first post, you actually DID know Steve Irwin and saw his face and watched his documentaries (including personal features). You dont need to shake the mans hand to feel warmth towards him as good person, which this world is in great need for more.

To call this outpouring, "hypocrisy" is ludicrous...


Cheers

[Maquisard]

Indeed, there are no hippos in power here.

edit: just to be clear, EvoG originally spelled "hypocrisy" as "hipocracy".

[Melanie68]

^Nice catch and LOL*!!!





*forgive me for laughing in a mourning thread...

[EvoG]

Gah! One typo and my post is drawn moot...fixed. Forget the other 239 posts where I had no typos or grammatical errors. (that was funny though Muzzy...ya bum)

[bulldog]

Our thoughts and prayer are with his wife and children and the rest of his family in their time of need.

[SakSquash]

Oh what, you guys didn't see this coming?

[InlineChick]

I miss Steve Irwin very much and it doesn't seem 5 minutes since he was
speaking his wise words,"Crikey,what a beauty!" to us all.
I would like you guys to leave some last messages for him.
Like one of his close friends said,"He would never pass away in his sleep."
You have been an inspiration to all of us as not many people would have
a job like yours and you showed us that you really were the one and the only
Crocodile Hunter.

Steven Robert Irwin 1962-2006 RIP.

[Squinky]

I feel rather indifferent about this, actually.

But maybe it's because I know that there are fates much, much worse than death.

[RLacey]

You mean like being me?

[Giligan]

No, by saying that there are worse things than death, she obviously means being captured by the Vietnamese or being forced at gunpoint to look at a picture of the old rolling stones without bursting into hilarious laughter.

[Squinky]

All of the above and then some, actually.

[pinkgothic]

Originally Posted by Giligan

[...] or being forced at gunpoint to look at a picture of the old rolling stones without bursting into hilarious laughter.

Harsh!

@Squinky: I agree, there are worse things, but who are we going to make fun of now? ...heh.

[Jatsie]

We can still make fun of him now he's dead - until we forget about him that is.

Stingraaaaay, Stingray, da-na-na na-na!


Stingraaaaay, Stingray, da-na-na na-na