[MoriartyL]

Therefore, I will try to solve the problem on my own, as always. But thank you all.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

You're welcome.

I will try to solve the problem on my own, as always.

As always? Which means you never listen to the wisdom of others who have been where you are? Pity. A waste of an otherwise good thread.

[Jeysie]

Originally Posted by Trep

Moriarty, I'm gonna give you two words in response to your building walls against all this incredible advice you've been given by PEOPLE WHO HAVE LIVED MORE PASSIONATELY, MORE DEEPLY than you could ever dream you could.

Heh. Unfortunately I can't take credit for belonging into that sentiment, Trep, because up until now I haven't lived life at all.

Moriarty and I aren't exactly the same, it seems (I find people extremely fascinating, and I'm motivated and unmotivated by different things), but still, there's enough that it feels like deja vu, almost.

I know exactly what it's like to want to stay isolated in a world of games and personal fantasies. I know that the more I see of the real world, the more I want to just stay in those fantasies and not deal with it. I know what it's like to feel like an outsider and feel like you don't belong. I know what it's like to think that you know yourself perfectly and everyone else trying to give you advice is off their rocker.

And, now that I'm almost 26, I know that all of that is damaging and keeping me from having a life where I feel happy and fulfilled. I know that I have to learn to deal with the real world, and that I wish I had snapped myself out of it years ago when I was a teen, because it would have been much, much easier to do it all then than it will be now. But I can't hop into a time machine and tell my younger self to get her act together, so I guess I'm telling you.

The reason why we're telling you to go on a trip is *because* you need to "run away from yourself". Spending time alone will do nothing but let you cocoon yourself further into isolation. You need to put yourself in lenghty situations where you have to deal with people without being able to withdraw from them.

Yes, it's unpleasant, but when it's over you'll be a lot better off for it. Maturity is achieved when you realize that drinking the nasty, bitter medicine will make you feel healthier later.

As for how it'll help you make games... ask any creative artist, and I think they'll likely tell you that the more life experiences you have, the richer your work. How can you do something original and innovative unless you know what's already been done before and why it does or doesn't work?

And even if you argue that you can study games without leaving the house, inspiration and new ways of thinking can, and often does, come from almost anywhere. The more life experiences you have, the more ideas you will have to think about. Hint: There's only so many ideas you can have staring at four bedroom walls and a computer monitor.

Not to mention the fact that games... and indeed, all of the creative arts, cannot be taken in isolation. Staring at paintings, listening to music, watching dance, admiring sculptures, and most importantly, studying people and what all of those arts forms mean to them will help you be a better creative artist.

You seem like a very intelligent man, Moriarty, and like some of the intelligent people I've met, you seem to be falling into the trap of thinking you know all the answers already, and that if you can't see the reason for something, that automatically makes it wrong.

And while I hate to sound patronizing, that comes with youth as well. I remember dropping out of school because I thought I knew everything I needed to and I didn't think it had anything else to offer me... heh, I look back at my younger self now and realize I didn't know shit. But I thought I did.

Unfortunately this is one of those situations where you have to be willing to trust those older than you, since the realization that you didn't know shit doesn't really come until you spend enough time out in the world to see all the shit you didn't know. By which time it is, of course, usually too late to get your ass in gear.

Peace & Luv, Liz

[MoriartyL]

Jeysie, I have to hand it to you- that was very inspirational. Not once while reading it did I ask myself how to shoot it down. Now that I'm replying, on the other hand, it is apparent that I have no lack of good arguments with which to do so:

• It is always possible to withdraw further, so your picture of a situation "where you have to deal with people without being able to withdraw from them" is unrealistic.
• The unhappiness I had a few days ago about my upcoming birthday was quite mild and in fact has already passed. On the other hand, my previous life experiences make it indisputable that this type of trip would push me into full-fledged depression. The part of that three-day trip I neglected to mention was the part where I was banging my head repeatedly as hard as I could just to see if anything would happen.
• I have no idea where to start such a journey, nor where to go from there.
• I have no desire to be "mature". I see so many adults suffering under tedious jobs and lifestyles, and so used to it that they've forgotten what happiness ever was. The thought that I may someday be one of them is the sort of thing that keeps me up at night.

...but I won't use them. Because I believe you. I think you may be right about me, and I may be wrong. I believe you because you have acknowledged the truth that I would not enjoy this experience, given me an intellectually satisfying explanation for it, and because, well, I imagine that if I were to speak to myself from the future, I'd be using the exact same tone of voice I've just heard.

But I still won't do it. If you were here physically to force me into it, and could whisper in my ear lies of "It's only..." and "This isn't like those other..." and "Don't miss...", I would jump at the opportunity, because I'm the sort of gullible fool who would do that. When the people in my grade at school said I should come, I came. If you were here physically, I'd throw all the lessons I've learned to the wind and follow you on this senseless quest. And...


With your permission, I'm going to stop myself there. I'm sorry, very sorry. This is just the way- Oh god, I'm stupid. Putting on this act, instead of... Should I edit? No, of course I'm not going to edit. I'm not rational- that's the point! But it's juvenile and spoiled and it's the truth. I'm not going on anything like this, and that's not open for discussion. Maybe if it were something simpler, something where I have a floor to stand on. I'm sorry. I'm...



I'd really better wrap up this post before I make a fool of myself. Oh, wait, I already have. Well, thank you. Thank you all.





Oh, and by the way, call me Mory, okay?

[MoriartyL]

I'm really very sorry. I tried to explain: I am an outsider. That's who I am. If I'm forced to go along with other people, I run. The harder it is to run while maintaining the pretense of rationality we all love so much, the less I care about pretending to be rational. This is, as I said, one of the most basic fundamentals of my identity. Any potential change has to come from me. I understand the very rational arguments you are all giving about how I should take advice, but that's not the way I am. People have tried to change me- friends, enemies, family, therapists, etc. It always ends up with me rejecting their "help" as I just did.

I have nothing against any of you. You all seem like very nice, caring people. And for what it's worth, I'm sorry I brought you into this. And I must thank you all, once again, for trying to help, even if you didn't understand that there was absolutely nothing you could do for me. Outside "help" can only lead me to self-destruction, while internal change is gradual but I think it may lead somewhere. I have to believe it will lead somewhere.

But here's the part I don't understand: Why did I start this thread? Why did I go on that trip? If there were someone here for me to go with, why would I do it again? Maybe you can help me answer that, because it's a purely intellectual question, and I see rationality as a fairly trivial kind of game. I don't understand why I keep doing this, though I know it can't be good for me, and I certainly know it can't be good for the people who have to tolerate me. How can I prevent myself from this in the future? How can I permanently learn the lesson that I am an outsider, and not look for opportunities to ignore it?

[Fairygdmther]

Perhaps, Mory, even though you see yourself as an outsider, you still have a need to be recognized and in some way accepted. We are a caring group, and you must have felt comfortable enough to share with us. Even if you can't/won't try what we suggested, do remember that without even knowing you, we cared enough to offer support.

Lynsie

[MoriartyL]

I suppose I should, but it's small comfort. It's certainly not going to help me sleep tonight. (It's 2:23 AM here.) I feel terrible about the whole thing. The thing is, I don't know how else I could have responded to Jeysie- she's right, and I have nowhere to turn! But now I've alienated all of you, and I am left with the same question I'm always left with, the same seeming incapability to stop myself from going through with this whole cycle.

[Jeysie]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

I have no desire to be "mature". I see so many adults suffering under tedious jobs and lifestyles, and so used to it that they've forgotten what happiness ever was. The thought that I may someday be one of them is the sort of thing that keeps me up at night.

Heh, I have to admit that this is what worries me the most. I admittedly don't know what the working world is like in Israel, but I know that here in the US if you don't get a college degree and enough work/life experience under your belt then it's hard to find any jobs that *aren't* tedious and boring. There just ends up being a lot of doors closed to you.

I mean, I was always a bright student who got good grades, and I'm stuck doing retail and file clerk jobs now because I don't have the qualifications for much else. You *can* eventually accrue enough work experience to gain more job freedom, but it's a lot faster to just get the training while you're young, honestly.

But I am sorry if I pushed too much with agreeing with the trip idea. I personally just think it would be a good idea if you socialized regularly in any form, even something less drastic, but if it's really a repulsive idea right now then waiting is.

Even if you feel you don't want to follow our advice at all and don't think it would help, you still didn't alienate us. We're here when you need help, and we're here when you just want to hang out. We're not insulted or upset if you ever decide you disagree with us, especially since you're so nice about it.

We're not going to force you to go along with anything... just take us sometimes and leave us sometimes as you feel comfortable with. One of the perks of the Internet is that you don't have to feel forced into being anywhere in cyberspace you don't want to be... you can come and go as you wish Maybe that's why it's easier to open up here? You can belong when it feels comfortable to do so, and be an outsider when you start feeling too trapped/scared/different/<insert applicable emotion here>.

Peace & Luv, Liz

[MoriartyL]

Originally Posted by Jeysie

We're not going to force you to go along with anything... just take us sometimes and leave us sometimes as you feel comfortable with. One of the perks of the Internet is that you don't have to feel forced into being anywhere in cyberspace you don't want to be... you can come and go as you wish Maybe that's why it's easier to open up here? You can belong when it feels comfortable to do so, and be an outsider when you start feeling too trapped/scared/different/<insert applicable emotion here>.

If I had explained, back at the beginning of this thread when people were trying to change me to fix my problem (the irony is that that problem didn't even really exist, since it was just a fear about a number), "I don't want you to try and change me, and nothing good will come of it," I would have just woken up from a good sleep, instead of being completely depressed or even depressed at all for that matter! So you're right that I should always remember that I have the right to be an outsider, though I think that wasn't quite what you were getting at.

But why should I have brought the topic here at all? You couldn't possibly have helped, and by not starting this thread I would have been saved from having this miniscule problem escalated to such a degree. I don't blame any of you- you obviously had no idea what I'd go through. But the fact is that halfway through writing a reply to Jeysie, I went from being completely happy to being completely depressed, as I realized that I no longer had any way out. Still, I'm thankful to all of you, because it gives me one more opportunity to learn the lesson I should have internalized long ago: I should never have gotten involved.

[Jelena]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

But now I've alienated all of you,

Mory, I don´t think you have alienated anyone. Life is very much about communicating with others. Sometimes you agree, sometimes you don´t. A few harsh words doesn´t mean we´ll stop caring. /Lena