[Dasilva]

Pop music is noise.
Teckie music is noise.
Barking is noise.
Farting is noise.
Having sex is noise.
Making noise is noise.

Its a bit stupid having someone saying a certain sound/music is noise and not a sound/music itself. So saying you think Rock is noise is just your personal opinion about it, its a music genre not a noise.

[RLacey]

Originally Posted by Dasilva

Pop music is noise.
Teckie music is noise.
Barking is noise.
Farting is noise.
Having sex is noise.
Making noise is noise.

Its a bit stupid having someone saying a certain sound/music is noise and not a sound/music itself. So saying you think Rock is noise is just your personal opinion about it, its a music genre not a noise.

You seriously equte farting with music? I'm worried now .

[Dasilva]

Originally Posted by RLacey

You seriously equte farting with music? I'm worried now .

So you think sex is music then?

[Melanie68]

Originally Posted by RLacey

You seriously equte farting with music? I'm worried now .

Just watch the Farting Elves*.








* yes, I am 37 and shouldn't find that funny but I did.

[RLacey]

That was - vaguely - amusing. Not as good as their other videos, though.

[Melanie68]

Originally Posted by RLacey

That was - vaguely - amusing. Not as good as their other videos, though.

True. Their political videos are the best. I should stop lowering the tone of this thread.

[Dasilva]

Lets see, we have mentioned farts, politics and sex. I don't think it gets lower than this.

[Jeysie]

Originally Posted by Aj_

How about the vocals are unintelligible, and the music is just dissonant sounds to you.

Seeing as how in every post I've made on the matter I've said that it is my personal experience, and that yours or someone else's opinion may differ, and that I'm OK with that, you're pretty much telling me something I already know, thanks. In fact, I more or less said this myself already when I said that it was possible I may just lack the ability to hear/understand the musical elements of metal music.

(Though for what it's worth, my roommate with far better hearing and musical abilities than I feels more or less the exact same way I do about heavy metal.)

Originally Posted by Aj_

I feel like I'm arguing what the colour of something is with a colour blind person. I can't see how you can apply a word like specific noise(unwanted, or random sound) to a music genre.

(shrug) As I already said (my, this phrase is getting a LOT of use, isn't it), to *me* it does sound like "unwanted" or "random" sound, and I find the label of "music" dubious.

And, as I already said, your mileage obviously varies. Seeing as how I've been more or less saying the same things over and over again, I find this rather pointless and I'm not going to reply further. (again, shrug)

Peace & Luv, Liz

[Aj_]

Originally Posted by Jeysie

Seeing as how in every post I've made on the matter I've said that it is my personal experience

Well no, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you forgot about it, and that's why you didn't correct it.

...I may just lack the ability to hear/understand the musical elements of metal music.

You only know three metal bands.

Though for what it's worth, my roommate with far better hearing and musical abilities than I feels more or less the exact same way I do about heavy metal.

Right...

(shrug) As I already said (my, this phrase is getting a LOT of use, isn't it), to *me* it does sound like "unwanted" or "random" sound, and I find the label of "music" dubious.

Given that you only know three metal bands, can't understand the lyrics, can't find any pattern(even rhythm? I find it very hard to believe), and unwanted can't be applied to a music genre(unless you were the only one listening to it). While the randomness is completely about context(so was the being wanted part), as conversations can easily become noise when you're not part of them, or music, say like from a neighbour, who has the bass up far too loud(which can happen to a lot of genres).

Samples(not CD quality):
Goth Metal
Power Metal*
Industrial Metal
Heavy Metal
Thrash Metal( )
Speed Metal(The guy really can't sing but the music is quite fast, and it still has a clear pattern, but it sucks so very very much)
Progressive Metal( )

Well if you can say you can find no pattern in any of that, and you don't understand the lyrics, then I'd like to know what rap and techno you listen to

I dare anyone to not atleast like** one song.

*Nightwish aren't that good all the time, well this one is ok too
**or atleast be able to listen to it without vommiting, like I do(vommit) when listening to the last 3 on the list

[Dasilva]

You fergot Emo.

[Ninth]

Originally Posted by Jeysie

It's been a while since I listened to them, but I remember them being more or less what I said... screaming, atonal, and/or mumbled/slurred singing, and random-sounding instrument playing. If there is a pattern, I'm personally ill-equipped to hear it... and even then the vocals would be a turn off (if a song has vocals, I prefer them to at least be understandable in a "what words are they saying?" sense).

I think Weird Al's "Smells Like Nirvana" song matches my personal commentary pretty well...

Peace & Luv, Liz

You remember wrong, then. Atonal? Random-sounding?
Metallica's music, for example, is clear as glass, which very simple patterns, and a clear voice with understandable lyrics (and I'm not even english).
Nirvana's singer might slurr a bit, but I don't see how that makes it noise. Can't you listen to foreign music, for example? Understanding words is in no way a distinctive way of separating music from noise.

[Jeysie]

Ninth: They sound perfectly clear to you. If it wasn't a problem for me, I wouldn't remember it as being one. I don't "remember" it being problem for other music genres I generally don't like, after all. Furthermore, as I said, when a "metal-sounding song" has at least partially melodic singing and a discernable pattern, I generally end up liking it (or at least, not minding it).

Besides, I related the pattern (or lack thereof) to the instrumental playing. Lyrics I can't understand do not make something noise to me in and of itself... I do listen to foreign music sometimes (mostly operatic stuff). I just simply have a personal preference that, if a song has (English) lyrics, I like it better to have them be intelligible. (Otherwise, what's the point of *having* lyrics instead of just wordless vocalizing?)

Peace & Luv, Liz

[natalia]

I'm a terrible music listener. I don't know very much about music, I don't really know what qualities to look for -- I'm a very casual listener. When I have listened to what other people call "metal", I haven't liked it. Obviously that shouldn't mean much to people who like metal music, but that's not what personal preference is about.

In almost everyone one of her posts, Jeysie has said that, in her personal opinion, the metal she's heard sounds like noise. That's been my experience, too, but that certainly doesn't change the experience others have had. My hubby loves wine. I can drink it, but I definitely don't love it. We can go out to dinner and really splurge on a hundred dollar wine. He can tell me that this is is a really fine wine, with subtle complexity. And I'm sure he can taste it -- but no matter how much he describes it's qualities to me, the taste doesn't improve for me.

[Ninth]

Originally Posted by natalia

In almost everyone one of her posts, Jeysie has said that, in her personal opinion, the metal she's heard sounds like noise. That's been my experience, too

I don't see how experience enter into it. Noise hasn't got a pattern, and metal has simple patterns, especially well-known and widly broadcasted bands like Nirvana or Metallica. It has no common denominator with noise.

You don't like wine, but would you tell that in your experience, it's nitric acid?

[natalia]

Originally Posted by Ninth

I don't see how experience enter into it. Noise hasn't got a pattern, and metal has simple patterns, especially well-known and widly broadcasted bands like Nirvana or Metallica. It has no common denominator with noise.

You don't like wine, but would you tell that in your experience, it's nitric acid?

Well, seeing as how I've never tasted nitric acid, no, I can't say that's been my experience. However, I have said that one wine tasted more acidic, or more tangy to me than another one. Now, wine connoisiuers may say that the amount of acid that I find too acidic or too tangy actually lends the wine a robust structure or backbone. Hm...maybe -- but not to me and my experience of the taste. And it really is a matter of personal experience.

When I looked up noise it is described as loud, unexpected, or undesired -- and to me, that explains my experience with metal. Now if you want to say that noise actually means without pattern, and that metal music actually has a pattern, than fine, I can agree with you on that. That agreement on that point doesn't make the experience any more pleasant to me, though.

[Ninth]

Originally Posted by natalia

That agreement on that point doesn't make the experience any more pleasant to me, though.

Sure. But not liking some music and saying it's noise are two very different things.

As "loud, unexpected, or undesired", well, it's any music can be loud, unexpected and undesired, no matter how harmonic or whatever.

[Aj_]

When I looked up noise it is described as loud, unexpected, or undesired -- and to me, that explains my experience with metal. Now if you want to say that noise actually means without pattern, and that metal music actually has a pattern, than fine, I can agree with you on that. That agreement on that point doesn't make the experience any more pleasant to me, though.

but it does mean that the genre isn't noise. Metal music that you've heard, can be noise, that's contextual and doesn't include the Metal you haven't heard(check out my links, tell me if they work for everyone).

[stepurhan]

Originally Posted by Ninth

Obviously, no music is "noise" any more more than another one.

In a way, all music is noise. It all comes down to whether its a noise you like hearing or not.

We all have our likes and dislikes. The problem is when any individual or group tries to force their personal taste on others. This works both ways. Don't subject me to loud house music at all hours of the day and I won't call for it to be banned, even though I can't stand it.

I like Jon Otway and the Polyphonic Spree from time to time. Judging by the reactions they both get (the highest praise is usually "It's..... different" ) I'm in a minority but what the hey. Live and let live I say.

[natalia]

Originally Posted by Aj_

but it does mean that the genre isn't noise. Metal music that you've heard, can be noise, that's contextual and doesn't include the Metal you haven't heard(check out my links, tell me if they work for everyone).

I think we're pretty much agreeing on many points here. I'm not dismissing the entire metal genre. I've already said that I'm a casual music listener, so I'm sure I haven't heard a majority of what metal music has to offer. However, the sample I've heard wasn't pleasant to me, and definitely not enough to entice me to delve more into the genre. Life is short, we've all got different tastes.

[Orange Brat]

I mentioned Radiohead on the last page...if you want an example of one of their "experimental" tracks that could be considered "noise" then have a listen to "Treefingers". It's off Kid A and there's an extended version on the Memento soundtrack. It is in no way representative of RH's work, but I know people who find it very beautiful and melodic(and yes those are guitars that have been altered in post), but I don't particularly care for it. Kid A was a very "noisy" record, but it's still one of my favorite RH albums. Anyway, I think Rh are a good example of a band that works both sides of the fence(noise, more traditional melody, and untraditional structure starting with OK Computer and esp with Kid A onward).