[Lucien21]

Originally Posted by Jeysie

I missed that little tidbit.

Shodan's "don't trust people" and "expect the worst" bit is exactly the way I operate. If you always prepare for the worst you'll be set if it does happen, and pleasantly surprised if it doesn't.

Peace & Luv, Liz

If you always expect the worst or go looking for it. That's exactly what you'll find.

I'm always a believer that you get out what you put into a relationship or any given situation.

Example

When I went on holiday to Florida recently it was with my best friend, who I have been friends with since nappies, His sister and her husband.

Now his sister and husband kinda did there own thing most of the time which was fine (we had days together and went out for some meals) which left me and my friend to do what we wanted.

Now the holiday was all his idea. he phoned me up last year all excited (or about excited as he gets) about wanting to go to Florida and everytime we spoke he was all about the holiday and how he was looking forward to it..

Until the day of the flight, he said he didn't want to go. I kinda laughed it off as it's typical behavior (he's a bit on the odd side at times). However it became clear when we got there that he wasn't interested in doing anything and was only interested in sitting in the hotel room watching TV.

Now I hadn't flown 3000 miles to sit in the hotel so I kinda dragged him round most of the touristy places for the first week (although I always asked what he wanted to do). I was determined to have a great time (and I did), but at the back of my mind i knew he wasn't enjoying it and only doing it out of duty.

So come the 2nd week I would ask what he wanted to do and he would say "nothing" so i would go off by myself and have a great time, by the end of the second week we were even having dinner separately, spoke very rarely and the only time we saw each other was in the room at night.

My point is that my friend obviously went on holiday thinking he wasn't going to have fun and was like a lead balloon the entire fortnight whereas I went expecting to have a blast and had an excellent holiday.

Maybe 8 time out of 10 you always get what you expect. I don't agree with the expect nothing and you'll be pleasently surprised notion. Sure it might leave you more exposed emotionally if it goes wrong, but "no pain no gain" as they say.

Life's always better with a little risk.

P.s Haven't spoken to my friend since I came back so not sure if we are still friends.

[Melanie68]

I'll quote myself from earlier:

Originally Posted by Mel

I try to find the best in people even when they aren't at their best. I know I'm not always at my best but I'm still an OK person.

I believe in the inherent goodness of people..

Sometimes when people aren't there for you, it isn't necessarily because they aren't good people but at other times, there may be something going on in their life that is preventing them from being fully there for you. The best you can do is reach out and see if they respond. Maybe these people are constantly looking for the worst in people and they may open up when they find you aren't that kind of person. Sadly, it doesn't work this way all the time and that is when you need to let them work out things for themselves or let someone else try.

@Lucien: You obviously did your best to get him out of whatever funk he was in. Hopefully whatever was bothering him will get resolved or he'll get a hold of you.

[Jeysie]

Well, all I can say is... I personally learn rather like a computer. I take in life experience, analyze the cause and effect and frequency of various occurances, and base my future actions on the results.

I spent my childhood being bullied extensively. On the rare occasions someone was nice to me or promised me something it was inevitably an attempt to hurt me by stringing me along until they finally pulled the rug out from under me. So I eventually learned not to trust anyone trying to be nice to me.

Eventually people stopped bullying me so much and started being nice to me. But, honestly, this only caused more problems... now I would sometimes run into people who didn't like me but were nice to me anyway because they wanted to be polite. It's a heck of a lot harder to tell when someone's stringing you along out of niceness than it is to tell when someone's stringing you along to be mean. As a result I tend to trust criticism a lot more than I trust praise.

Furthermore, I had to learn how to socialize with people, as opposed to my learned behavior of avoiding everybody. I'd like to think I've made some progress, but I find it impossible not to still hold myself back a lot.

And even if someone genuinely does like you, promises sometimes are broken through no fault of their own. I find the only way I can ever get any of my plans to work at all is if I do as much as possible myself and assume other involved people will fall through somehow. If the other people actually do come through, then great, life is good. If they don't come through I'm not left holding the bag and having wasted my time and effort.

So, yeah, it's a sad way to live. But even at my young age I've already spent too many occasions having someone let me down or even outright betray me. Once bitten, twice shy and all that. I just don't feel like being hurt any more. (shrug)

Don't see what's wrong with looking at what's actually happened to you in life and basing opinions off that. Don't they say that insanity is "doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results"?

Peace & Luv, Liz

[Melanie68]

This is an interesting article from Shambhala Sun -

Three Methods for Working with Uncertainty

We continually find ourselves in that squeeze. It's a place where we look for alternatives to just being there. It's an uncomfortable, embarrassing place, and it's often the place where people like ourselves give up. We liked meditation and the teachings when we felt inspired and in touch with ourselves and on the right path. But what about when it begins to feel like a burden, like we made the wrong choice and it's not living up to our expectations at all? The people we are meeting are not all that sane. In fact, they seem pretty confused. The way the place is run is not up to par. Even the teacher is questionable.

This place of the squeeze is the very point in our meditation and in our lives where we can really learn something. The point where we are not able to take it or leave it, where we are caught between a rock and a hard place, caught with both the upliftedness of our ideas and the rawness of what's happening in front of our eyes—that is indeed a very fruitful place.

When we feel squeezed, there's a tendency for mind to become small. We feel miserable, like a victim, like a pathetic, hopeless case. Yet believe it or not, at that moment of hassle or bewilderment or embarrassment, our minds could become bigger. Instead of taking what's occurred as a statement of personal weakness or someone else's power, instead of feeling we are stupid or someone else is unkind, we could drop all the complaints about ourselves and others. We could be there, feeling off guard, not knowing what to do, just hanging out there with the raw and tender energy of the moment. This is the place where we begin to learn the meaning behind the concepts and the words.

We're so used to running from discomfort, and we're so predictable. If we don't like it, we strike out at someone or beat up on ourselves. We want to have security and certainty of some kind when actually we have no ground to stand on at all.

The next time there's no ground to stand on, don't consider it an obstacle. Consider it a remarkable stroke of luck. We have no ground to stand on, and at the same time it could soften us and inspire us. Finally, after all these years, we could truly grow up. As Trungpa Rinpoche once said, the best mantra is "OM—grow up—svaha."

We are given changes all the time. We can either cling to security, or we can let ourselves feel exposed, as if we had just been born, as if we had just popped out into the brightness of life and were completely naked.

Maybe that sounds too uncomfortable or frightening, but on the other hand, it's our chance to realize that this mundane world is all there is, and we could see it with new eyes and at long last wake up from our ancient sleep of preconceptions.

Finally, couldn't we just relax and lighten up? When we wake up in the morning, we can dedicate our day to learning how to do this. We can cultivate a sense of humor and practice giving ourselves a break. Every time we sit down to meditate, we can think of it as training to lighten up, to have a sense of humor, to relax. As one student said, "Lower your standards and relax as it is."

1. No more struggle: "Whatever arises, train again and again in seeing it for what it is. The innermost essence of mind is without bias. Things arise and things dissolve forever and ever. Whatever happens, we can look at it with a nonjudgmental attitude. This is the primary method for working with painful situations."

2. Using poison as medicine: "When suffering arises, we breathe it in for everybody. This poison is not just our personal misfortune. It's our kinship with all living things, the seed of compassion and openness. Instead of pushing it away or running from it, we breathe in and connect with it fully. We do this with the wish that all of us could be free of suffering."

3. Regarding whatever arises as awakened energy: "This reverses our habitual pattern of trying to avoid conflict, trying to smooth things out, trying to prove that pain is a mistake that would not exist in our lives if only we did the right things. This view encourages us to look at the charnel ground of our lives as the working basis for attaining enlightenment."

The only control we have in this world is over ourselves and how you react to the world around you. This has a great impact on the people you meet in life. At some point I finally realized this and have tried being more positive with people (even those who are pains in the rear ) I'm not always successful but it's always a work in progress and the more you do it, the better it gets.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

You learn the most about yourself during the worst of times. But even more importantly, it's what you do with that precious knowledge that determines the quality of your life from then on.

When we feel squeezed, there's a tendency for mind to become small. We feel miserable, like a victim, like a pathetic, hopeless case. Yet believe it or not, at that moment of hassle or bewilderment or embarrassment, our minds could become bigger. Instead of taking what's occurred as a statement of personal weakness or someone else's power, instead of feeling we are stupid or someone else is unkind, we could drop all the complaints about ourselves and others. We could be there, feeling off guard, not knowing what to do, just hanging out there with the raw and tender energy of the moment. This is the place where we begin to learn the meaning behind the concepts and the words.

Goddamn, this sounds eerily like the wisdom of a book I read years ago by Buddhist monk Pema Chodron, When Things Fall Apart: Heart Advice For Difficult Times. Excellent reading....

Pema Chodron is a spiritual teacher for anyone, whether they have a spiritual path or not. Here she explains that there is a fundamental opportunity for happiness right within our reach, yet we usually miss it - ironically, while we are caught up in attempts to escape pain and suffering. Pema suggests powerful ways out of this conundrum, teaching us to use painful emotions to cultivate wisdom, compassion and courage. She also gives us practices for reversing our negative habitual patterns and working with chaotic situations. Most importantly, she offers ways to cultivate compassionate, energetic social action without adding to the sum of aggression and condemnation already present in our world.

I think not trusting anyone and planning for the worst are also forms of avoiding pain and suffering.

EDIT: OMFG!!! It IS Pema Chodron!!! Melanie, I just clicked your link! HAHAHAHA!!

hey y'all, it's been a while.... let the pseudo (i like that word) stream-of-consciousness roll!

i guess i've always just tried to be myself, but lately it's been driving me insane. the more i think about who or what i am, i realise it's really difficult for me to just shed my 'social mask' and just be me (and i realise this is really something only the truly enlightened can achieve.... but i can try)... i try to disguise these 'masks' by never really fully connecting with most people that i meet so they never realise what i'm really like (not that i'm a monster or anything... just inhibited, i guess).

i try to be a good person, but that's all relative isn't it?... live and let live i say. you do your bit and i'll do mine. and i like to help people when i can, and/or make at least one person laugh everyday if possible... i'm happiest when others around me are happy.... i know i need to work on this since ultimately everyone is responsible for their own happiness.... but that's part of what i like to try and do - spread the happiness!

how did it come to this? i spent a good portion of my life over-analysing things.... situations, people's remarks, body language, etc... it drove me nuts because i'd be getting depressed over assumptions i had made about people; what they might be thinking of me.... in some cases my judgement turned out to be accurate, but most of the time i was only making myself feel ill. i'd stare at the ceiling for loooong periods of time, replaying these 'films' in my head..... not fun. i was sick of feeling ill... so at one point i figured "f*** it, i'm going to be happy!", and show others that being happy is good (i had been hanging around with a bunch of prententious-goth-wannabe types during this period)... it doesn't always work, but i do try...

so yes, expect nothing and nothing can dissapoint you (i suspect a few of the previous posts were trying to say) and spread the happiness are my mottos!

-peace

.......

[Ninth]

Originally Posted by Lucien21

If you always expect the worst or go looking for it. That's exactly what you'll find.

I'm always a believer that you get out what you put into a relationship or any given situation.

I tend to think that way too.
Of course, I tend to test the waters before I give someone too much.
Confident, cocky, lazy, dead... (obscure reference )

[Lucien21]

It's classic risk vs reward.

You have to give a little of yourself to get something in return. It's a two way street.

The rewards are you get a lot (friendship/love) in return and have a genuine connection with another human being.

The risks are that the person abuses the trust, takes advantage or just doesn't give anything in return.

Too me the rewards far outweigh the risks.

The only other option is to just stop trying at all, build a fortress around yourself and become a hermit, grow a shaggy beard, live in a cave on the edge of town and growl at passers by.

I understand that people are hesitant or unwilling to risk because of past events in their lives and that is their choice. I'm in no way judging them or their way of life. I went through that at school and University, it was hard for me to trust people and let down the barriers. It is hard work and occassionally you do get hurt and have to start again.

I just hope that they find someone who they can trust implicitly and who will return that trust with loads of reward.

[Melanie68]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

You learn the most about yourself during the worst of times. But even more importantly, it's what you do with that precious knowledge that determines the quality of your life from then on.

Goddamn, this sounds eerily like the wisdom of a book I read years ago by Buddhist monk Pema Chodron, When Things Fall Apart: Heart Advice For Difficult Times. Excellent reading....

I think not trusting anyone and planning for the worst are also forms of avoiding pain and suffering.

EDIT: OMFG!!! It IS Pema Chodron!!! Melanie, I just clicked your link! HAHAHAHA!!

Hee hee. I was reading and I was going to respond, 'It is Pema Chodron' and then you found out!

Edit:

Originally Posted by Lucien

It's classic risk vs reward.

You have to give a little of yourself to get something in return. It's a two way street.

The rewards are you get a lot (friendship/love) in return and have a genuine connection with another human being.

The risks are that the person abuses the trust, takes advantage or just doesn't give anything in return.

Too me the rewards far outweigh the risks.

If you ever read any Leo Buscaglia, that is his sentiment exactly. Love can give you pain but your life is always better if you take the risk/

[RLacey]

Originally Posted by Lucien21

The only other option is to just stop trying at all, build a fortress around yourself and become a hermit, grow a shaggy beard, live in a cave on the edge of town and growl at passers by.

Sounds good. Where do I sign ?

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Melanie68

If you ever read any Leo Buscaglia, that is his sentiment exactly. Love can give you pain but your life is always better if you take the risk/

"Go out on a limb! That's where all the fruit is!" - Mark Twain

[Avinash_Tyagi]

My personal Philosophy:

Don't worry about the afterlife or history when living your life. If every action you perform is with the intent to make a positive difference in this world for everyone then everything else will fall into place.

[em-deecee]

It's all been done before.
Men are pigs; women are bitches,
And in the end, we all die alone.

[Sage]

^ Quite the little ray of sunshine, isn't he?

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Well, he does make sense to me. I'd rather suck on pork than eat dog.

[Sage]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Well, he does make sense to me. I'd rather suck on pork than eat dog.

LOL!
Fair enough. When you put it that way, I have to agree.

[Lucien21]

So what you are saying Scott is your motto is:

I dig the Pig
I love to dine on Swine
Put some Pork on my fork
I've got an aik'in for some bacon

[Lucien21]

To Quote Malcolm X

"I don't Eat Pork"

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Not your religion, eh. Oh, that's right, you must worship women.

[Sage]

Originally Posted by Lucien21

So what you are saying Scott is your motto is:

I dig the Pig
I love to dine on Swine
Put some Pork on my fork
I've got an aik'in for some bacon

Well...yes, in a manner of speaking.
(I really tried to come up with a witty retort, but I was laughing too hard to think clearly.)