[NemelChelovek]

Ethics are not defined by legality. They are defined by personal rights. Vivendi allowed Phoenix Online to progress with the project for four years without intervening; by letting them spend this much time of their lives, without any sort of benefit other than personal satisfaction, on a project that they were ultimately going to cancel, they have acted inethically. Vivendi's forsook its ethical right to the property by allowing progress to continue for so long. Imagine constructing a building on someone else's property for four years, and the owner of the property does nothing until the building is a month away from opening to the public. It would be ridiculous. Same thing here.

[AFGNCAAP]

Ridiculous - maybe. Immoral - why? Do people really miss the possibilities that:

• It was perfectly rational for Vivendi not to waste time and energy on making the project shut down before they were pretty certain it was going to be released?
• In the span of 4 years the executives could simply change their mind about letting the fangame live (heck, even the management could have changed 437 times)? Not being tied by any official agreement (unlike what folks at AGDI eventually negotiated), or any agreement for that matter, they had every right to defend their IP. We don't know whether they've really been ultimately going to cancel it since the beginning.
• Likewise, to echo what Josho touched upon earlier (and what was mostly ignored), we are not privy to what was going behind the scenes. If Vivendi had been pretty liberal about fanfiction up till now*, why assume they are inconsistent bastards? Perhaps, Phoenix guys were indeed in course of negotiations with VU legal department, and those negotiations ended negatively, hance C&D letter?

Also, just thought I'd clarify, the first of three parts was to be released this winter, so calling the game almost done is a bit of a stretch. Of course, a lot of hard work must have been put into it during those 4 years, but still.

Finally, to quote KQIX FAQ:

If, however, Sierra does request that we stop the project because of Copyright issues, we will continue the project with different but similar character and location names (for example we may use "Princess Rose" instead of Princess Rosella or the "Land of the Emerald Islands" instead of the Land of the Green Isles). However, the underlying plot will remain the same, so that veteran King's Quest players will feel "at home" despite the changes.

So, what's the problem?

PS Could one of the mods merge the two threads about KQIX, please? Almost identical points emerge in them.

*Though, were they really? I'll have to search thouroughly, but I'm pretty sure for every SQ - The Lost Chapter there was something they got canned. Of the top of my head I can only mention recent Young Gabriel Knight Chronicles renamed Gabriel King because of their intervention.

[Tobbe]

This is really sad news, I was really looking forward to this game..You could see that the guys behinf this project really had put effort in making this game..

[VoodooFX]

Merged the two threads with the same topic.

[AGA]

Originally Posted by AFGNCAAP

Of the top of my head I can only mention recent Young Gabriel Knight Chronicles renamed Gabriel King because of their intervention.

I don't think Steve McCrea was actually contacted by Sierra, I think the name change was because the whole game was more of a pastiche than a direct fan sequel (prequel...). Could be wrong though.

[Jeysie]

It was perfectly rational for Vivendi not to waste time and energy on making the project shut down before they were pretty certain it was going to be released?

In the span of 4 years the executives could simply change their mind about letting the fangame live (heck, even the management could have changed 437 times)?

Not being tied by any official agreement (unlike what folks at AGDI eventually negotiated), or any agreement for that matter, they had every right to defend their IP. We don't know whether they've really been ultimately going to cancel it since the beginning.

If I postpone doing something because I don't want to put in the effort, or because I can't decide whether I want to do it or not, and I later find myself forced to do it in a way that pisses people off more than if I commited myself earlier, well, tough bananas for me. I knew what I might have to do, I didn't do it at the optimal time, and now I have to suffer the consequences.

I'm not going to feel sorry for Vivendi, especially since they have a lot more resources and options available than the average person does.

Originally Posted by AFGNCAAP

Likewise, to echo what Josho touched upon earlier (and what was mostly ignored), we are not privy to what was going behind the scenes. If Vivendi had been pretty liberal about fanfiction up till now*, why assume they are inconsistent bastards? Perhaps, Phoenix guys were indeed in course of negotiations with VU legal department, and those negotiations ended negatively, hance C&D letter?

(shakes head) Everything I've ever heard from them on the matter was that the team was not in negotiations with Vivendi, and all of their previous attempts to contact Vivendi met with silence. They're in negotiations *now*, of course...

Also, just thought I'd clarify, the first of three parts was to be released this winter, so calling the game almost done is a bit of a stretch. Of course, a lot of hard work must have been put into it during those 4 years, but still.

The first part now may be the only part that is fully done, however, the last two parts had significant progress. The game certainly *was* "almost done".

Peace & Luv, Liz

[Filmman]

i think this is just Stupid what Vugames are doing they just shut down KQIX and they are not going to finish the game That is stupid.

[AFGNCAAP]

Originally Posted by AGA

I don't think Steve McCrea was actually contacted by Sierra, I think the name change was because the whole game was more of a pastiche than a direct fan sequel (prequel...). Could be wrong though.

This is what I based my facts on. Only now do I see that I had misinterpreted the sentence: "You play a young Gabby King, who changed his name to avoid a cease-and-desist letter from Sierra’s lawyers." Thanks, AGA.

Anyway, I actually gave this topic some more thought and I can't point any other examples of this, so Jeysie may be right here. If so, I stand corrected.

Originally Posted by Jeysie

If I postpone doing something because I don't want to put in the effort, or because I can't decide whether I want to do it or not, and I later find myself forced to do it in a way that pisses people off more than if I commited myself earlier, well, tough bananas for me. I knew what I might have to do, I didn't do it at the optimal time, and now I have to suffer the consequences.

I'm not going to feel sorry for Vivendi, especially since they have a lot more resources and options available than the average person does.

I'm not sure what to say. I don't want to convince you to be sorry for VU, nor do I feel sorry for them. Moreover, I don't see them as being particularly suffering at the moment, so why should anybody feel this way?

(shakes head) Everything I've ever heard from them on the matter was that the team was not in negotiations with Vivendi, and all of their previous attempts to contact Vivendi met with silence. They're in negotiations *now*, of course...

Yeah, I've also *heard* that Bad Brain secured the rights to Freelance Police. And, anyway, note that I'm merely offering possible explanations that don't boil down to Vivendi simply being total jerks.

[Kirk]

Originally Posted by RLacey

Nobody has an ethical right to infringe copyright. Sorry, I know that you're disappointed (as we all are), but that doesn't make Vivendi ethically wrong to close the project.

Make sure to point out that ethics and legality are two often quite different and separate (I am being redundant for effect) beasts.

Kirk

[Kirk]

Originally Posted by rtrooney

The point I was trying to make is that Vivendi had every right to do what it did in order to protect its Brand. Whether anyone likes what they did is immaterial.

I agree. And I may have done the same thing in their shoes. I, however, have gotten to know a few people and understand a few relationships in association with Vivendi and I see their decision as biting.

The decision is clear. The copyright protection laws are also clear. As far as I am concerned, however, I might as well copyright protect my arse and then shut down recent company projects for crafting 3D tushies like mine.

(This is a joke, and only intended to be slightly off-topic and humorous. If you see it as an uneducated stab into the realm of copyright law then you've gone too far. If you see it as the on-line equivalent of giving someone the raspberry and then high-tailing it out of the joint, then you're spot on.)

Kirk

[Filmman]

Vugames Shut down the King Quest IX and now Space quest 3 Vga Version so what is next for Vugames shut down.

[Erpy]

We actually have reason to believe the SQ3VGA shutdown was a hoax. Likely motive; being able to quit without being looked down upon for not finishing what was started.

[koko]

Hey guys! Us fans have finally organized! We're getting together a petition. Find the information here:

http://www.kqix.com/forum/index.php?...2641#msg122641

[ClémentXVII]

Originally Posted by Erpy

We actually have reason to believe the SQ3VGA shutdown was a hoax. Likely motive; being able to quit without being looked down upon for not finishing what was started.

It would not surprise me (all in all sq7.org still lives) if what you say is true, but would want a little more detail, how come you think this is a hoax?

And why would they have put up their artworks for a few days and deleted the whole site afterwards?

[Erpy]

It would not surprise me (all in all sq7.org still lives) if what you say is true, but would want a little more detail, how come you think this is a hoax?

And why would they have put up their artworks for a few days and deleted the whole site afterwards?

Well, first of all, SQ3Remake was in no means close to completion. In fact, the founder had less and less time to be even online as of late. Unlike KQ9, the project didn't announce a release date, wasn't on the edge of release and wasn't even in the public spotlight. VU's legal department aren't adventure gamers and would have severe trouble locating that project at this point. Even if they did, they would have come across several bigger fish who'd get priority over that remake. It makes absolutely no sense that VU would contact them at this point and not anybody else, safe KQ9 who got the real deal.

Second of all, the website was changed without any of the other team members even being informed about it. One moment, everything was still going. The other moment, the webmaster claims to have received word from the director that a c&d was in the mail and that the project was gone. The webmaster says he doesn't have the c&d-letter and that only the director had it. No word from the director during the whole situation. It was already known he was making himself scarce online before. (as he stated at SQ.net)

When one of the SQ3VGA-moderators started accusing the webmaster of making this up, the webmaster took the entire site down and told him to bring proof of fraud or move on with his life.

It's overly convenient that this whole thing happens right after the news of KQ9's demise. Rumor has it the c&d was just an excuse to drop the project without being seen as failure. Since everybody's psyched up about KQ9, most people wouldn't question the claim that a shutdown had occurred.

The whole discussion took place on AGDI's forums. (the Off-topic forum, more accurately)

[ClémentXVII]

Thanks Erpy, it's quite an interesting read

As you said, it's far easier for them to put the blame on VUGames, but rumours spread soo fast on the net

[Filmman]

Originally Posted by ClémentXVII

Thanks Erpy, it's quite an interesting read

As you said, it's far easier for them to put the blame on VUGames, but rumours spread soo fast on the net

That True Rumours does Spread fast on the Net

[splat44]

I'll say the following:

Let's get gaming authorities involved in here!

Gee!

[Alias90]

This is Alias, I thought ti would be better to cry ''VU'' rather than saying we don't have enough energy to finish this project. MY deepest apolozies.

[Ninth]

I was bored this afternoon, and so I browsed around to read about this SQ3, the SQN thing, etc...

My conclusion : Space Quest fans are all mad.

"Seriously", this would make a rich TV series, with plenty of broken vows, betrayed friendships, repentment, etc...