[AFGNCAAP]

Originally Posted by Hammerite

Why do so many hate BS3??

Er, who does? If anything, it was treated like the second coming of Christ or something when I registered to the Forum. The excitement has cooled off since and now it's (usually) judged for what it is, an honestly fun game with too many misguided attempts at innovation/getting broader appeal (so in contrast to that hype back then, it may look like people bash it). I think this thread shows that hardly anyone hates it here.

Originally Posted by Ariel Type

Are you serious? Those 2 or 3 deaths can hardly be called "annoying".

Seconded. If I remember correctly, there were but two opportunities to die in BS1, and not a single one in BS2.

[AeroDMC]

^ Correction... When you play as Nico, she can be shot dead in BS2.

Also you can die when you annoy Karzak's Bodyguard if you hang around when he comes outside (at the Docks).

Therefore, two death possiblities to take note of in BS2.

For me, Broken Sword 3 was good and I enjoyed it. But this is coming from a Broken Sword fanatic... and I do agree that it's story was nowhere near as good as the first two... Also, the final "slay of the dragon" bit and the ending was absolutely HORRIBLE.

[Aj_]

Originally Posted by AFGNCAAP

Seconded. If I remember correctly, there were but two opportunities to die in BS1, and not a single one in BS2.

Having played BS1 many times, you can die if you walk out of the hotel after being warned not to, on the cliff at gun point, and on the top of the train if go the wrong way. There might be 1 or 2 more, but I never checked if I could make George die for those. The first one is anoying because the solution is to chuck a fragile ancient manuscript down a couple of floors into an alley. The second one is anoying because it is timed (I've got the PS1 version for kicks, and using a controller this is nearly impossible). The third is really your own fault though.

Been a lot of these threads recently. I think BS1 is one of the most tight, funny, and compelling adventures made. I think BS2 is very similar gameplay wise, but its content and structure is not as good by far. BS3, loses the gameplay but introduces some awful new gameplay, loses the "tightness" camera, movement, graphics problems, and I didn't like the style, the content, or the structure of the story.

[AFGNCAAP]

You're right, guys, there have been more death scenes than I thought, but not even close to BS3 (and never preceeded by long unskippable cutscenes).

Incidentally, I loved the way to save George from "on the cliff at gun point" situation. One of my favourite scenes in Shadow of the Templairs...

[bigjko]

I hope there's not going to be a trend of threads reminding us why recent adventure games are getting worse...

[Iguana]

I really enjoyed BS3 (crate puzzles aside). However I had no idea it even existed untill joing this forum, so I was ecstatic to discover my favourite game of all time had not only a sequel but 2 (I had only ever known the original as its north american name Circle of Blood) I personally found the 3rd better than the 2nd as I felt it fit better with the atmosphere of BS1. Admittedly the 1st will always in my mind be the best, but I certainly did not hate the 3rd and quite honestly rate it quite high on the list of games i've played recently.

[Boneho Chane]

Originally Posted by samIamsad

Phew, it's been a while (years, in fact) since I played the first one, admittedly. But I've finished playing BS2 a couple of weeks ago (my third run, I think), and there wasn't anything that seemed particularly noteworthy. Sure, the .. argh.. "puzzles" like the one I mentioned above aren't as completely bonkers as some super contrived roadblocks in some other games, but I haven't found anything super hot, either.

edit: In fact, if I remember correctly, BS1 got criticized because it didn't have that much stuff to interact with, errr.. I mean.. PUZZLES, PUZZLES, and , oh PUZZLES (by-the-numbers, please). Only talking, not enough "gameplay". And Revolution tried to address that in the sequel...

Never heard any of those complaints for BS1, except for the talking. In fact, I've heard a lot of complients BS1's interaction and puzzles. Personally, I thought they were both excellently well done. BS1 has some of the best puzzles I've seen in adventure gaming, basically because their extremely sensible and realistic. But the talking, yes, there was a lot of it according to critics, but I thought it was completely nessecary to get the story across.

I do agree with you on BS2, though. I played the game on PS1, so a lot of the puzzles were practically impossible. Most of the time the puzzle involved clicking on some sort of object unseen due to the PS1's graphics. And there a TON of them.

And the BS1 death sequences not mentioned already include: When you're in the underground cave for the first time, and the rock door comes slaming down on you. You have to jump out of the way just in time. When you're in the train at the end of the game, there was a moment when you had to pull a lever to crash an object on a criminal, and if you didn't do it in time, you'd die. Another one was when you sneak into the muesume. If the criminals spotted you, they would shoot you.

Man, this is bringing back so memories. I really need to get a hold of this game sometime soon.

[AFGNCAAP]

Thanks, Boneho. I'd never spotted sam's edit were it not for your post.

Originally Posted by samIamsad

edit: In fact, if I remember correctly, BS1 got criticized because it didn't have that much stuff to interact with, errr.. I mean.. PUZZLES, PUZZLES, and , oh PUZZLES (by-the-numbers, please). Only talking, not enough "gameplay". And Revolution tried to address that in the sequel...

The first game was strongly focused on dialogues, yes, but the critics complaining about not enough stuff to interact with must've been drunk (keeping in mind that the interaction usually was conversation-based, too). Neither of the sequels improved on that aspect. Neither gave you the option to ask each character about each object in your possession and get funny responses. How I missed that... It's interaction density at its finest!

And, personally, while the puzzles (in the first instalment) weren't super-challenging, I really, really liked them (and don't see how they are "by-the-numbers").

[samIamsad]

Originally Posted by AFGNCAAP

The first game was strongly focused on dialogues, yes, but the critics complaining about not enough stuff to interact with must've been drunk (keeping in mind that the interaction usually was conversation-based, too). Neither of the sequels improved on that aspect. Neither gave you the option to ask each character about each object in your possession and get funny responses. How I missed that... It's interaction density at its finest!

Oh. Never mind. I was a little bit scared to use the scary p-word. (Errr...)
I remember having shown Nico's panties to pretty much anyone in the sequel (and wasn't there some sort of electronic shock device involved in the first game? Hehe.). But, yes, nothing spectacular, but it allowed for some funny lines. Here's a translated quote from the BS2 review in the German mag I used to read waaaaaay back then:

When Revolution Software introduced the graphic adventure Baphomets Fluch (Broken Sword) in 1996, it wasn't hard to impress editors....Lovely visuals, exciting story and refreshing dubbing... But there had also been suggestions for refinment: In Broken Sword there's much talking, but no firework of traditional puzzles. Lead designer Charles Cecil promised improvement: "We have cut the amount of dialogues down to half and at the same time added more classic puzzles."

Doesn't really matter. I only wanted to say that I hardly remember that many super clever and certainly no difficult challenges (that's why I don't understand the criticism). Except....





And that's fine, because Broken Sword is a fine game as it is. Better than the third and much better than the second one.

And, personally, while the puzzles (in the first instalment) weren't super-challenging, I really, really liked them (and don't see how they are "by-the-numbers").

He. That was just a small rant and not directed at any BS game in particular.

[AFGNCAAP]

Originally Posted by samIamsad

Ugh. Please don't remind me.

And that's fine, because Broken Sword is a fine game as it is. Better than the third and much better than the second one.

So sometimes we do agree ...

[Melanie68]

This pertains to BS1 (as I played it this weekend):

1. Deaths: Only 2? I see your 2 and give you 5 (maybe 6)!!

Spoiler:

When you leave the Hotel Ubu with the manuscript - Flap and Guido kill you and dump you in the river

If you interrupt the templars meeting in the catacombs under the Church Montfaucon

If you aren't fast enough when activating the lion's head in the well - SMUSH - the lion's head falls on you

If you walk the wrong way on top of the train, you touch the electrical thing and ZAP, you fall

If you aren't fast enough in the train car, Ecklund will shoot you after he shoots Khan

This may be a 6th - if you aren't fast enough with the buzzer on Bullshead, Khan may shoot you - I didn't get this one but it may happen

2. The goat:

Spoiler:

I felt sorry for him after George shortened his lead. Did anyone ever go back and give his lead some slack and make sure he had food and water? So he was mean, he doesn't deserve to starve.

[dazsin]

I didnt 'dislike' it, it just wasnt a work of genius like the first and possibly second game.
I understand the need for 3D (modern market etc) but the crate puzzles were too frequent, and the general feel of the game was a bit TOO dark - making George a macho hunk didnt help.
Having said this - getting Rolf Saxon back as the voice of George was a MAJOR MAJOR plus point, and a nice feel of nostalgia plus a bit of humour made the game enjoyable if not a masterpiece.

[Dobee]

lemme add one more death of George in BS 1: he can get killed by the two bastards at coming out hiding from the mummy in andre's meseum.

[RLacey]

Mel, your sixth one is indeed a way in which you can die.

[Melanie68]

With Dobee's - that makes seven! It validates my obsessive game saving.

[AFGNCAAP]

Sure, rub it in.

[Dobee]

Originally Posted by Melanie68

With Dobee's - that makes seven! It validates my obsessive game saving.

i enjoy replaying just to see the deaths , so i game save frequently too

[Karmillo]

Originally Posted by Melanie68

2. The goat:

Spoiler:

I felt sorry for him after George shortened his lead. Did anyone ever go back and give his lead some slack and make sure he had food and water? So he was mean, he doesn't deserve to starve.

If he was really that hungry then he would eat the rope

[Ariel Type]

The question wasn't about the number of deaths (if I'm not mistaken, you can also die at the end, if you will not make a final move..), but about the "annoyance" factor. Sudden deaths in, say, Kings Quest games were playing on your nerves, as they often happened without any real reason. But here.. Most of the deaths might be avoided by simple logic. The puzzle with the scroll in hotel was very logic, and if you leave hotel after entering it for the first time, you'd know that those guys are going to search you..

[Dobee]

are u saying suddden deaths are annoying factor or the other way around?