[remixor]

Originally Posted by twifkak

Well, it's better than Kingz'.

And no, it's a lot more like purchasing a CD, opening it, encoding it in mp3, resealing it in plastic, and returning it to from where you purchased it, offering to do the restocking/re-inventorying work yourself.

No, because that suggests that pirates have to do something akin to effort.


EDIT: Holy crap, I AM the king of first-posts-on-the-page

[ragnar]

Originally Posted by Marek

I think the implications are as follows:

- All multiplayer components of HL2 are now vulnerable to perfect cheats and exploits

If the only security for cheats and exploiting is that noone knows the actual source, then it is rather bad code. People have been able to write multiplayer games in open source and still they're not that vulnerable. Plus, people will find the cheats and exploits even if they don't have the actual code.

And to the larger topic: I am rather surprised at how mad people are at this. I haven't seen this kind of rage on these boards since the WTC attacks. Come on people. It's not like people have died, or that the world will end!

[Kolzig]

Hmm, isn't the code that is leaked quite useless.

I mean, about 99% of people don't have anything real use for it.

Am I right, or am I wrong?

[twifkak]

Originally Posted by ragnar

If the only security for cheats and exploiting is that noone knows the actual source, then it is rather bad code. People have been able to write multiplayer games in open source and still they're not that vulnerable. Plus, people will find the cheats and exploits even if they don't have the actual code.

But this is just a game, with a limited budget, and not an operating system, with a *duty* to be secure. Had they divvied up some of their budget to be totally secure *should* their source leak, we would've gotten subpar graphics, say. Since it's released as a binary, Valve can count on a headstart by which to release a security patch.

[Kingzjester]

Originally Posted by Titan

Good rejoinder twifkak, to the pinko comment. I have the same problem and sentiments concerning the lack of any good jazz station in the so-called 'live music capitol of the world' here where I live. I'd settle for more dead on jazz anyday.

What about 91.7? San Antonio is not so far away from Austin... They play jazz during the day and alternative at night...

[bigjko]

Originally Posted by twifkak

But this is just a game, with a limited budget, and not an operating system, with a *duty* to be secure. Had they divvied up some of their budget to be totally secure *should* their source leak, we would've gotten subpar graphics, say. Since it's released as a binary, Valve can count on a headstart by which to release a security patch.

Who said anything about Operating Systems? Open-source multiplayer games haven't had any severe issues with cheating. And besides, wasn't the purpose of Steam to update the code periodically to prevent cheats, anyway?

[twifkak]

Originally Posted by bigjko

Who said anything about Operating Systems? Open-source multiplayer games haven't had any severe issues with cheating. And besides, wasn't the purpose of Steam to update the code periodically to prevent cheats, anyway?

To repeat:
1)Open source games haven't been Half-Life 2 by a long shot. (I know there are some good ones out there, though..)
2)Games have a different set of budget priorities.

[Kingzjester]

Originally Posted by bigjko

Who said anything about Operating Systems? Open-source multiplayer games haven't had any severe issues with cheating. And besides, wasn't the purpose of Steam to update the code periodically to prevent cheats, anyway?

As far as I understand, STEAM would require from you to type in your credit cards info... that is kinda problematic, wouldn't you say?

And Trep it is hard to presuppose that you will be raped when you dandy yourself up and go out on Friday night... You really have to be paranoid to set up barriers that no one can penetrate... Bad choice of words, bad choice of words... Then again, something like this needs to happen for developers to rethink working in the open, that is to say, working on machines that are connected to the internet. It seems to me common sense to have the network closed off, but then again, common sense is all too often fallible. It is not possible to have a whole alternate network for internet related endeavors when you have 60 people on staff - assuming in the first place that internet is necessary ex officio.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Kingzjester

As far as I understand, STEAM would require from you to type in your credit cards info... that is kinda problematic, wouldn't you say

This is precisely why I prefer not to do Steam or subscribe to any online gaming.

Then again, something like this needs to happen for developers to rethink working in the open, that is to say, working on machines that are connected to the internet. It seems to me common sense to have the network closed off, but then again, common sense is all too often fallible. It is not possible to have a whole alternate network for internet related endeavors when you have 60 people on staff - assuming in the first place that internet is necessary ex officio.

I agree. But then you'd think companies like Valve, who have been so smart to keep such a hot property as HL2 so well under radar for the past 4 years, would maintain a high level of security up to the very release date of the game, and that includes drafting some kind of preventative system. Is the games industry learning? I fecking hope so.

[bigjko]

Yeah, you'd have thought someone would've gotten information about HL2 being in production long before the announcement, considering how easily the hackers seem to be able to hack into their servers.

[theneb]

[aea]

Nice

http://gamecache.net/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=152&

[Jake]

how'd they miss that guy? man. he got past the laser beams and everything.

[jack of spades]

Hopefully the valve gets their shit straight and produces more secure and better game.

[Marek]

Originally Posted by Jake

how'd they miss that guy? man. he got past the laser beams and everything.

Yes, and who leaked that picture of the security monitors?

[DomStLeger]

So it was Tom Cruise was it! I always thought he had that shifty hacker look about him. I suppose the FBI are raiding his home(s) at this very moment.

[ragnar]

Originally Posted by twifkak

To repeat:
1)Open source games haven't been Half-Life 2 by a long shot. (I know there are some good ones out there, though..)
2)Games have a different set of budget priorities.

1) Precisely. Even with the limited recources of most open source game developers they can make games that are secure with very little cheating. It doesn't make sense that Valve with their huge budget shouldn't be able to do that.

2) A multiplayer games first priority is always to make sure it is secure against cheating. No one will play it, no matter how good the graphics and gameplay are otherwise, if there are serious issues with cheating.

[twifkak]

Well, I'm going to ignore 1, for obvious reasons, but 2 is a valid point. So what would you like to take out of Half-Life in place of security? The jawdropping graphics? The amazing AI? The ability of the engine to accomode open levels and giant car-crushing striders? The physics engine? I'll give you the choice.

[DomStLeger]

Heres something I was wondering; could the open source community legally look at the illegal code and rewrite it with equivalent code, to make an open source version of the engine; thus allowing open source games to make a huge leap forward? Or would any code derived from the illegal source code in itself also be illegal code?

(Edit: and another thing, Valve have effectively lost a lead over their competitors right? There is nothing they can do with the old code to regain that lead. So would it make sense to make their part of the HL2 code open source; thus ensuring the competition; while able to use the code legaly; effectively end up having to compete with lots of valve derived games, loosing their own leads and completely changing the shape of the market?)

[Marek]

Ragnar: you have to consider that the people who write cheats or exploits always go for the biggest audience. They love reverse engineering a game that has hundreds of thousands of players because, of all those players, it's *them* who figured it out. That's why there's Half-Life clans devoted to cheating. There's little challenge (or fame) to get from writing cheats for relatively obscure open-source games.

This is also why nearly all viruses are written for Windows, not MacOS or Linux.