[Kingzjester]

Yes, this is yet another Beyond Good & Evil thread. This one differs from all the others because, for one, it was made by me, and two I have nothing to say about the game as such... because I haven't played it yet. I haven't played it because I have this idiotic tendency to be frugal with money that I don't have.... It is a beneficial tendency, if there ever was one - as beneficial as superfluous. Well, I have a couple of general questions too:

Why didn't anybody BUY this game?

Why is quality shunned in this great capitalist cash-before-catharsis world of ours?

Why do stupid tie-ins of stupid movies sell better than new things with great reviews?

Why do I feel BAD for not buying this original, underrated game?

Why are we still here, and not on some lesser forum with the 1337 people? What is it that we want? Do we really want to urge small, inventive developers into their dooms by demanding new and original things, do we really want that? Do we really want to pretend as if we, the pretentious coffeeshop intellectuals, are a viable audience for a multimilliondollarinvestment?

Speaking of pretentious intellectuals, does the game have anything to do with Nietzsche's essay with the same name?

[Moosferatu]

Originally Posted by Kingzjester

Speaking of pretentious intellectuals, does the game have anything to do with Nietzsche's essay with the same name?

No...

Originally Posted by Ancel

The original title I gave the game was Between Good & Evil (see my first logo included) – which the marketing department didn’t like back then. For me, the meaning of this title is that you are always in the middle of an internal and external conflict, based on our conception of good and evil. In this game and in our world, propaganda thinks in our place; tells us these are our enemies and these are our friends. When you go beyond the appearances, you discover your own truth. That’s the theme of the game and marketing finally accepted this title, and just replaced the between by beyond, which fits better with the vast universe and story.

[Royal Fool]

Originally Posted by Kingzjester

Why didn't anybody BUY this game?

Why is quality shunned in this great capitalist cash-before-catharsis world of ours?

Why do stupid tie-ins of stupid movies sell better than new things with great reviews?

Electronic Arts own the market, that's why.

[Kolzig]

Originally Posted by Kingzjester

Why do stupid tie-ins of stupid movies sell better than new things with great reviews?

People buy popular mainstream games... Games that have hype around them...

Originally Posted by Kingzjester

Why do I feel BAD for not buying this original, underrated game?

I have myself thought the same, why haven't I bought this game.

[eriq]

I have just purchased the game for the PC for 19.99 with leftover Xmas money on my EB games card. I have just finished installing the game and patch and I am preparing to dive in! WISH ME LUCK EVERYONE! WOOOO! EXCITING!

[eriq]

Ooooh. What a game already. I'm only in the beginning at "Black Isle" and wow... it's such an engaging game. I've heard that this game is pretty short so I'm trying to savour every moment of it by taking pictures of everything and scanning all around, watching the birds fly by... the graphic work is stunning. But I'd have to say the most impressive feature yet is the sound and music. This game has some serious atmosphere.

Loving it so far!

[Moosferatu]

Originally Posted by eriq

But I'd have to say the most impressive feature yet is the sound and music. This game has some serious atmosphere.

Loving it so far!

Yeah, the music is awesome. Unfortunately, they aren't going to release a sound track, but I assume that you have the PC version so you are able to rip the music directly from the game. This thread will tell you everything you need to know in order to do it. I wish I could rip the music but I have the XBOX version.

[Garyos]

Originally Posted by Moosferatu

Yeah, the music is awesome. Unfortunately, they aren't going to release a sound track, but I assume that you have the PC version so you are able to rip the music directly from the game. This thread will tell you everything you need to know in order to do it. I wish I could rip the music but I have the XBOX version.

Woooo, thanks! I was just going to ask about that....

[Garyos]

Ugh, that thread was confusing....

Any BG%E players with more skillz than me care to give me step-by-step instructions in how to rip the files? I'll make you look nice in the Group Photo...

(hmmm, I should go and update the Group Photo.... )

[Moosferatu]

I think that most of it is trash, but what you want is the extractor made by one of the guys there. You can find it here. I haven't looked at it myself but he made a GUI for it so it should be pretty self explanitory.

Updated the extractor program,

for the -a and the -x options you can append -wavpcm



bfextract -x sally_clean.bf "01-Boss After Mili.wam" -wavpcm


That should extract the file + ".pcm.wav" added to the file name. It took me awhile to write this code only cuz i've not had to work with raw audio before.

if you want a listing of the files in the bf

bfextract -l sally_clean.bf

or if you wanna put it into a text file for easy viewing

bfextract -l sally_clean.bf > textfile.txt


I have already tested the files I output with LAME(mp3encoder) and it works great


ADPCM -> PCM WAV = about a 20-30% increase in size but
PCM WAV -> MP3 = about a 50% decrease in size (128-160)

so the files actually get SMALLER than the original files

You should be able to use ANY WAV file player to play these files, and any WAV->MP3 encoder (use your fav.)

VERY nice! Great little utility you've come up with. I was able to extract the music files to PCM wav and convert them to mp3 no problem. Thanks a lot, you've done the BGE community a great service.

For anyone looking for a nice free wav->mp3 converter check out CDex, a freeware/opensource CD-Ripper/wav->mp3 & vice versa converter:

http://www.cdex.n3.net/

Make sure you add a trailing "-wavpcm" argument to the command when you run bfextractor. That'll convert them to standard WAV files (search the thread for the gory details) that you can read with WinAMP or any other media player. If you don't do that, or you can't get it working for some reason, only VLC at www.videolan.org will play them. RTFT.

One thing you can do is first separate the WAM and the WAA files. To do this you'll want to make a list.

bfextractor -l sally_clean.bf *.wam > wamfiles.txt

bfextractor -l sally_clean.bf *.waa > waafiles.txt

Now you have two text files will all of the audio files.

Next you can make a batch file that automatically extracts the files listed and converts them to a RAW PCM file. I made one called expandwam.bat

for /F "eol= tokens=*" %%S in (wamfiles.txt) do (do bfextractor -x sally_clean.bf "%%S" -wavpcm)

You can make a similar one for waafiles.txt.

Run the batch file and it will extract all of the files in your list and convert them into wav files so you can edit or listen to them.

Not all of the files are the same bit rating or sampling size so you may need to edit them in some audio program.

I don't know what the GUI looks like it might take care of some of the more complicated stuff for you. I wish I could help more but since I don't have the PC edition, I can't. Maybe some else, like Erkki, could help.

[Garyos]

Originally Posted by Moosferatu

/snip

Thanks, but I figured it out on my own straight after I posted that.... There's a lot of redundant files to go through though, but I've got a lot of great stuff. If you want, I can send you your favourites somehow.

[redhotray]

Going back to the original theme of this post got me wondering what people term as 'value for money'.

Would you be wholly satisfied with a game that could potentially keep you going for hours on end, like a final fantasy, as you look for every individual secret? For me, yes, I love looking in every nook and cranny, and finding the best weapons, enabling my characters to be at the height of their power, and making battles easier. However, that just isn't for some people, and they turn their nose up at it.

Is value for money a game that you will be playing months, even years from now, and it won't just be used as a bookend on your shelf, catching dust for the rest of it's days? A game like a Half Life or a Civilization, where you can play these games online and there are mods coming out all over the place, supporting the titles, even though they are several years old! Some people really like a game that is full of depth, and a game that you can still pick up and play one rainy day, when there's nothing better to do, and they know that they can find something new in the game each time they play. However, some people may find this intimidating, and thus, leave it to one side.

How about a game with a story? Maybe it is only one story, but it's a good story. Maybe the game doesn't have a lengthy duration, but it sustains your interest from beginning to end, each and everytime you play? A game like Monkey Island or Grim Fandango are prime examples of this. Is that value for money?

The games worth getting on the market today should have AT LEAST one of these features going for them, otherwise, as far as I'm concerned, they're ultimately shallow gaming experiences and not worth time or day.

I'm playing Beyond Good and Evil through at the moment, and I, just like almost everyone else on this board, have been blown away by it. I think the game is a lot of fun, and it has a lot of things going for it. It's creative, (the use of the camera is a nice cool, new feature) and it has a good story to back it up as well! Also, if you've played the game through once, then you can have all the mini-games at your disposal, and as well, if you didn't do so before, you can collect all of the pearls that are hidden away in different parts of the World.

It seems to me that BG&E contains almost all of the above features I have already eluded too, and yet it's sold poorly, and has been forced to go to rockbottom prices! There is absolutely nothing wrong with this game, it's just been lost in the shuffle of the products that are backed up with marketing, and name value!

That sums up the gaming World of today. Gone are the days where a new game would come out every so often, and it would be on equal plains with everything else in a race for sales. Just like Hollywood has done with films, advertising has done with games! To some gamers, the only games that exist are the ones you see on television, hear about on the radio or see on posters around town! Anything else is horsesh*t and is to be avoided like a bad rash!

Unfortunately, it's only going to get worse. The moment Bill Gates tried to buy up every game publisher when the Xbox was released, sent a shiver down my spine. With companies like Sony and Microsoft now infiltrating the market, things will get worse. Nintendo are barely hanging in there anymore, with the Gameboy Advance just keeping them alive! However, it's only a matter of time before it's all engulfed by money and power, and before long, nothing will be sacred!

Beyond Good and Evil is an excellent game, it has a damn good narrative, it's created a group of characters that are a lot of fun to watch and interact with, and an exciting new World envelops before you as you play.

It's just a shame that the majority of people with the ability to play this game, will never see it for their own two eyes...

[Moosferatu]

Well said!

Originally Posted by redhotray

Unfortunately, it's only going to get worse. The moment Bill Gates tried to buy up every game publisher when the Xbox was released, sent a shiver down my spine. With companies like Sony and Microsoft now infiltrating the market, things will get worse. Nintendo are barely hanging in there anymore, with the Gameboy Advance just keeping them alive! However, it's only a matter of time before it's all engulfed by money and power, and before long, nothing will be sacred!

Let's not forget EA. IMO, they are worse than Mircosoft. Actually, I don't really have any complaints against Microsoft when it comes to the way they manage their games division. It seems to me that they are giving small developement companies a chance that they wouldn't have gotten else where. I doubt that Tim Schafer would have gotten as much slack as he has from very many other publishers. Heck, they seem to be willing to even give Tex another chance.

[Starflux]

So it's all going to hell? I read something someplace I really agree with. Let's extrapolate and say it'll be this way. The market will be flooded for years with mindless games and stupid sequels. Eventually this lack of quality will eat itself up, and the market will slowly die. Big companies will back off and leave it for dead. And that's when the cycle begins anew, because little creative companies and individuals will have a chance again to get big with small things, even quicker now over the internet. And we'll have plenty quality games, although it isn't long before the big companies will jump in again and take over everything af course.
It all goes in waves, and there will come a good current again. Someday

[redhotray]

Originally Posted by Moosferatu

Well said!



Let's not forget EA. IMO, they are worse than Mircosoft. Actually, I don't really have any complaints against Microsoft when it comes to the way they manage their games division. It seems to me that they are giving small developement companies a chance that they wouldn't have gotten else where. I doubt that Tim Schafer would have gotten as much slack as he has from very many other publishers. Heck, they seem to be willing to even give Tex another chance.

EA certainly have a foothold in the market, there's no two ways about that .

Mind you, THQ did a hell of a job of promoting 'The Sleeping Dragon'. That was the most publicity I've seen an adventure game receive in a LONG time!!

[redhotray]

Originally Posted by Flux

So it's all going to hell? I read something someplace I really agree with. Let's extrapolate and say it'll be this way. The market will be flooded for years with mindless games and stupid sequels. Eventually this lack of quality will eat itself up, and the market will slowly die. Big companies will back off and leave it for dead. And that's when the cycle begins anew, because little creative companies and individuals will have a chance again to get big with small things, even quicker now over the internet. And we'll have plenty quality games, although it isn't long before the big companies will jump in again and take over everything af course.
It all goes in waves, and there will come a good current again. Someday

By which time we'll have sprouted Gandalf like beards and be walking around with Zimmer frames. LOL.

I agree though, nothing lasts forever, not even monopolies.

[Moosferatu]

http://ragnartornquist.com/2003_08_0...tsarchive.html

Do a search for August 12, 2003. There should be an e-mail that Kingz sent Ragnar there. I found it interesting.

[eriq]

One thing I can't stand in BG&E is the camera control. I'm using the mouse and I want to be able to "invert" the camera up and down but not left and right. Is this possible?? I'm so used to inverting the camera in other games but this only let's you reverse the axis while in "look mode" which is the camera and scan mode.

[Jake]

This question might have been asked and discussed elsewhere on these forums but I missed it. Did anyone feel too constrained while playing BG&E? I mean, how for instance in the Black Isle mines towards the beginning of the game, you can be up on a ledge not too far off the ground, and see an area you were just in, but trying to jump over the ledge down to that area makes Jade bump into an invisible wall and forces her to remain up on the ledge. It annoyed me. If the game was a point and click adventure that would be tolerable, but it has a jump button! A seemingly worthless one at least as far as I am in the game (not too far as far as I can tell, just past Black Isle).

[eriq]

Originally Posted by Jake

This question might have been asked and discussed elsewhere on these forums but I missed it. Did anyone feel too constrained while playing BG&E?

help! help! where? I wonder if it's fixable? Can you, in fact, play with the camera reversed up and down but not left and right? ugh! It's so annoying. Annoying enough to really bring down the gameplay a notch. Why have the reverse axis at all? who plays with the left and right reversed? BOO!

Originally Posted by Jake

.... but it has a jump button! A seemingly worthless one at least as far as I am in the game (not too far as far as I can tell, just past Black Isle).

I agree here too. Jade's movement seems "fixed". The jump seems only integrated for aesthetics. Even in fighting, the jump seems useless. She jump "rolls" and regular jumps only in specific spots.

Those are the only two piggy tails I have with this title so far. The rest is amazing enough to just sit and absorb. Of all the titles I've played recently, this one takes the cake for really immersing you in a real world. I feel like I'm part of this little cartoon story. Just sitting in the boat with the water around and the beautiful fishes jumping around me makes me feel like I'm at Disneyland. I can't quite explain the feeling. It's just... right.