[Starflux]

Okay, I'm fine with this. I'm not that much of a basher as is said here. My actions were based on things I had already read; on the Elder Scrolls forums I already read that this was happening, and there it was put immediately that it was because of the 360's incapability of handling the shadows. This triggered my outrage immediately because I thought the following was happening:

1. They already had the system in place.
2. They were taking it out because someone didn't want the PC version to outclass the 360 version.

Now it seems this is not the case, but back then it was just as plausible an explication as any other. Does anyone really think I would not have an appreciation for how difficult it is for Bethesda? Hell, guys. And I already said the shadows themselves weren't my issue at all.

[insane_cobra]

I see. Well, it does kinda suck taking such a big eye candy feature out so late in the development process, but what can you do. It's not that important.

[squarejawhero]

Last I heard they were removing the monkeys... every single one of them... including the howlers and spider monkeys. That may change the fundamentals of the game... for shame!

[insane_cobra]

However, does this mean what I think it does?

Originally Posted by Saruno Nuras

I know how amazing this game is going to be, and it's so redundant to hear idiots make "checklists" of Bethsoft going downhill by removing levitation and spears and now "ALL SHADOWS EVERYWERE OMGOMG"
It's pathetic.

No levitation?
The Elder Scrolls game without levitation... That just doesn't feel right.

[Starflux]

Hmm, when we're talking about the fundamentals of the game; Levitation IS kind of a huge thing. I'm guess the whole design will have adapted to this. So no more getting to places where you actually can't go. But erm, I'm not saying anything anymore

[squarejawhero]

Levitation was fun for entering the wizards place, but I didn't spend my entire time in Morrowind floating about. As long as I can steal crap I don't care!

[insane_cobra]

I played a fighter character in Morrowind so I didn't use it much either, but in Daggerfall it was my most used spell by far (well, that and spell reflection/spell absorption combo). It's not like I'm not going to play Oblivion because of that, far from it, but it does sadden me a little. Feels like losing an old friend.

[artwking4]

I wanted to steal a monkey and then levitate and throw it into the shadow of a pile of books. I guess that's never going to happen now. The game is ruined!

[insane_cobra]

You forgot to say you wanted to tie it to a spear first.

[Karmillo]

there will still be jumping right? maybe they will still put in that super jumping spell for us to reach unreachable places

[42yoMan]

I bet it has to do with the fact that you have to PAY for mods now and Bethesda wants to make some extra cash.

I bet a week after it's released they'll say "Hey! Good news! We've put the shadows back in the game... It'll only cost you another $20!"

Another week later: "Hey! Good news! We've put levitation and mounted combat back in the game... It'll only cost you another $30!"

Another month later: "Hey! Good news! We've added environmental damage to the game... Now you can burn down the eight miles of forest with a fireball!!! It'll only cost you another $50!"

[Ninth]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

They're not psychic, so how could they predict unforseeable problems with getting that feature to run effortlessly combined with ALL the other GPU and CPU demanding features simultaneously on most current systems?

They're not psychic, but they're programmers, and in SJH's quotes they make it seem like it obviously couldn't work.

I can't help thinking that they added a lot of "fake" effect to floor people and get them talking about their game. Not that I really care about shadow, myself, as I usually play old games, and find all the screenshots marvelous already.

[RLacey]

Now this I still don't understand. To go with the official quotation:

The shadows being changed isn't the X360 was to slow or vice-versa, it was because neither platform could run the shadows well.

So it is a hardware issue, and, not just that, it's a hardware issue almost certain to be redundant for PC users within the next couple of years if upgrades continue apace. So why not include the shadows - which we've all seen exist - as an option? This is still smacking to me of not wanting to include an option in the PC version that can't feature on Xbox360, no matter how they may choose to word it. We've all already said, after all, that Morrowind struggled when it was new, and yet they were happy to put it out like that. And now it runs fine - hell, I can actually use third-party hacks to increase the draw distance way beyond what was ever intended.

Removing it outright - unless they intend to add it back in with the obligatory expansion pack - seems entirely unnecessary...

[SakSquash]

I don't really care too much, and i'll get the game anyway, but it just feels like when you're at McDonalds and you see on the board a picture of a huge kickass fresh sandwhich, and then you get it, and it looks like someone took a shat on your bun and added lettuce.

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by RLacey

So why not include the shadows - which we've all seen exist - as an option?

Because they've taken the old system out entirely and implemented a new one. The old system didn't work well on neither platform and they probably couldn't afford working on two different implementations simultaneously, especially when there's no guarantee that the old one would ever fly.

Also, no game is sold on grounds of features it might offer one day, when hardware is up to it. It's not economically feasible.

[CrimsonBlue]

Let's be sensible here. They're releasing the game in what, two months? I believe adding shadows to their new system would take a lot of work, and there's playtesting the potentially finished product too. Will you wait three more months just so you can add shadows in three years time? Besides, both the Xbox 360 and current PCs are able to do it, it's just that they haven't been able to optimize the game so it runs fluidly WITH it. We all know Bethesda games aren't exactly the most optimized games in the world. And who knows, maybe they'll add shadows later on, as both the Xbox 360 and PC versions are patchable.

And for the convenience, maybe they concentrate on making one single version and then port it to the other, without having to remove or remake certain features of the game.

[squarejawhero]

Two seperate shadow systems appears to be this issue, not hardware. Programming issues can really bog a game down for YEARS... as its a bottleneck software side.

@temps - best analogy ever.

[RLacey]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Because they've taken the old system out entirely and implemented a new one.

I'm not sure where it says that, but I appear to have missed it. Oh well.

[squarejawhero]

You must read up before posting. That way you won't appear dumb, stupid, idiotic, retarded, numbskully, wankerish and pratfaced. Not that you are, I'm just trying to get into the spirit of the other threads we linked to. Er... you big tit.

[squarejawhero]

@Crimson - the hardware is radically different on the 360 to the PC, so porting isn't as easy as that. For one thing, 3 processors. Another, a dedicated simulation chip. Then the GPU is made purely for that machine and runs off a seperate DX system (if it's even that).