Adventures of FatMan review

Erwin_Br · 10-17-2003, 05:13 AM

Some people think it was too harsh, considering it is the work of one person.

Personally I disagree on a few points and I would have given this game 2 and a half stars, or maybe 3. One thing I'm happy about: It's being judged as a commercial game, not as 'amateur'. I think it raises the bar for independent developers to develop better games which may even match the big companies.

--Erwin

Zygomaticus · 10-17-2003, 05:29 AM

Perhaps this isn't really a big league game. While it certainly isn't completely an "amateur game" because of it being commercialized, I still wouldn't think it a big league game. More of a little league game

And so, I too think it was a little harsh...

***Marek*** · 10-17-2003, 05:43 AM

We have a very simple editorial guideline. If a game is being sold commercially, and isn't available as freeware anywhere, it should be reviewed on the same level as every other game we've reviewed. We don't throw stars around randomly--these games have to earn them just as much as other games. Examples: Fatman, Sydney Mystery and Dark Fall.

If a game is freeware, we'll review it as part of AG Underground, sans score. We believe that a score would in many cases be unfair to the author. A lot of games from the amateur scene are 'experimental', or some developers are in the middle of a learning curve. We can pick the best ones out as recommendations to our readers, but we're not going to hand out stars to those games.

RemiO · 10-17-2003, 05:46 AM

Yeah, I don't really care if it's the work of one person or an entire team - if I have to pay for the game I want quality stuff.

Zygomaticus · 10-17-2003, 05:52 AM

It still costs much less than a real, professionally published game would...But I see what you're saying.

***Marek*** · 10-17-2003, 05:58 AM

We know that the price is much lower than usual, so that's why we included the closing line:

Quote:

The Adventures of Fatman can be purchased at the Socko Entertainment website for $14.95 with free shipping

I don't think we'd ever do that for a game by The Adventure Company or LucasArts, since those games are readily available in stores worldwide.

Hiro Protagonist · 10-17-2003, 08:01 AM

I agree that the review may have been a little harsh, and I talked at length with the AG guys while I was writing it about how to judge this against other commercial games out there.

I think Socko created a good game - espcially for a one man team. But I can buy Syberia or No One Lives Forever II for 15 bucks right now, and if you stack those up against Fatman, then there is just no competition. It was essentially the same thing as pitting Mall Tycoon IV against Sim City IV - nice try but it's just not all there.

Do I think the game is worth playing? I absolutely do - with the voices turned off. Do I think the game is worth 15 bucks? Not at all - especially when I can go and download 5 Days a Stranger for free.

I'm glad to see that the review elicited such a response. It's nice to see a forum where the readers are actually thinking about what they're reading and not just looking for flamebait.

For what it's worth, I stand by what I said. This could have been a great amateur release or a mediocre commerical release. I commend the guts that Socko had to put it out in the commercial realm and take a chance, and I think that we are going to be astounded by these guys in the future.

Ariel Type · 10-17-2003, 09:15 AM

Hmm, you can download Kings Quest 2 VGA for free, and the game by itself can compete with many commercial games. KQ2 is the game that is worth your money. If it was for sale. But Adventures of Fatman... The Demo didn't make me want to by the game.

Erwin_Br · 10-17-2003, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiro Protagonist

Do I think the game is worth playing? I absolutely do - with the voices turned off. Do I think the game is worth 15 bucks? Not at all - especially when I can go and download 5 Days a Stranger for free.

You didn't mention the lenght of the game, so I'm wondering (if you finished it) how lenghty this game is. I mean, is it finishable within 30 minutes or does it take you days? I'm very curious.

--Erwin

remixor · 10-17-2003, 11:08 AM

Definitely not 30 minutes. It's a game of fairly solid length.

It seems the voice acting in this game polarizes people. I'm one of those who thought it was great. Not every voice was great, mind you, but on the whole I really enjoyed it, in no small part due to the narrator, who I thought did an absolutely brilliant job. It was intended to be a ridiculous accent, and was essentially parodying the typical deep narrator voice, and I thought it came off extremeley well.

Erwin_Br · 10-17-2003, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by remixor

Definitely not 30 minutes. It's a game of fairly solid length.

It seems the voice acting in this game polarizes people. I'm one of those who thought it was great. Not every voice was great, mind you, but on the whole I really enjoyed it, in no small part due to the narrator, who I thought did an absolutely brilliant job. It was intended by a ridiculous accent, and was essentially parodying the typical deep narrator voice, and I thought it came off extremeley well.

Hehe, I have the exact opposite opinion about the narrator. I think he'd better fit in a Dracula parody, not Batman. IMHO he should've had an American 'showmaster' accent. His overacting was great, just not the right accent.

The other voices ranged from mediocre to quite good, I'd say. ToxicMan blowed too much in his mic, though. Cracks and hisses aren't too pleasant on the ear. I found the voice of Fatman himself pretty good!

--Erwin

remixor · 10-17-2003, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erwin_Br

Hehe, I have the exact opposite opinion about the narrator. I think he'd better fit in a Dracula parody, not Batman.

I think this is partly the reason I liked it so much

The absurdity was just so striking, and the game never really alluded to it or overdid it. It was just sort of there for essentially no reason and made me laugh out loud multiple times.

Hiro Protagonist · 10-17-2003, 11:35 AM

Quote:

You didn't mention the lenght of the game, so I'm wondering (if you finished it) how lenghty this game is. I mean, is it finishable within 30 minutes or does it take you days? I'm very curious.

I finished the game in about 8-9 hours playing off and on over a few days. It's definately got a good length to it...

Skinny Minnie · 10-17-2003, 01:10 PM

Hiro! Is that the same Hiro Protagonist that I knew back from the early days of Four Fat Chicks? If it's you, long time no gab, buddy (er, but I thought you hailed from Canada unless my brain is melting down, which is entirely possible). And if it's not the same you, well, hello you person who has the same online handle as an old friend of mine!

In either case, your reviews are well-written and informative...

Hiro Protagonist · 10-17-2003, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Hiro! Is that the same Hiro Protagonist that I knew back from the early days of Four Fat Chicks?

Nope, different guy - I'm down in Texas. The name comes from the Neal Stephenson book Snow Crash. It seems to be a popular name among the computer geek crowd.

alastor66 · 10-17-2003, 08:19 PM

Well, no matter if an adventure is indie or not, no matter if it has cutting edge graphics or not, if ones has good time playing it, I think it deserves full credits. Admittedly, Fatman has some glitches, but it's a very enjoyable game. Reviews like that are not healthy for indipendent developers....

Alastor

DomStLeger · 10-17-2003, 11:50 PM

I think Ags line is right on this; for an ameatur adventure it would be very good but as if you're going to charge for the game then you have to accept it is judged along with other commerical releases. It does look good though, and I might check it out. But I'm saving up for big name commercial releases at the moment so it might not be for some time.

remixor · 10-17-2003, 11:54 PM

Just so people know, Mike of SOCKO! is currently considering a few options regarding Fatman. He may drop the price to $9.99 (still with free shipping) or he might offer the base game for free with a slight charge for the speech pack (which is a big reason the game is so large).

***Marek*** · 10-18-2003, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alastor66

Reviews like that are not healthy for indipendent developers....

I'm sorry but that sounds an awful lot like the people who were against criticizing full-priced commercial adventure games not so long ago because it would 'hurt sales' or somehow discourage developers. Their idea was that if we gave lots of games 4.5 and 5 stars, this would somehow be good for the genre.

Critique is actually more healthy than anything. Giving Fatman preferential treatment is not.

remixor · 10-18-2003, 12:28 AM

Agreed, Marek. If anything, reviews like this send a signal to other amateur developers that will perhaps cause them to think "Hmmm... well, if Fatman got that kind of review, perhaps we'd better make sure our game is pretty damned good before we decide to tack on a price tag..." There's nothing wrong with that. And Mike's reaction to AG's review was not one of bitterness; his response was "Hey, I'm surprised I didn't get more like this." He clearly took it in the spirit in which it was intended.

I still think the review was perhaps a bit harsh, but this is independant of the thoughts I've expressed in the above paragraph.

10-17-2003, 05:13 AM	#1
Erwin_Br Under pressure. Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands Posts: 3,773	Adventures of FatMan review Some people think it was too harsh, considering it is the work of one person. Personally I disagree on a few points and I would have given this game 2 and a half stars, or maybe 3. One thing I'm happy about: It's being judged as a commercial game, not as 'amateur'. I think it raises the bar for independent developers to develop better games which may even match the big companies. --Erwin Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ > Learn more about my forthcoming point & click adventure: Bad Timing! > Or... Visit Adventure Developers: Everything about developing adventure games.

10-17-2003, 05:29 AM	#2
Zygomaticus Liver of Life Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,317	Perhaps this isn't really a big league game. While it certainly isn't completely an "amateur game" because of it being commercialized, I still wouldn't think it a big league game. More of a little league game And so, I too think it was a little harsh... Share Share this post on Twitter

10-17-2003, 05:43 AM	#3
*Marek* Puts the 'e' in Mark Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,138	We have a very simple editorial guideline. If a game is being sold commercially, and isn't available as freeware anywhere, it should be reviewed on the same level as every other game we've reviewed. We don't throw stars around randomly--these games have to earn them just as much as other games. Examples: Fatman, Sydney Mystery and Dark Fall. If a game is freeware, we'll review it as part of AG Underground, sans score. We believe that a score would in many cases be unfair to the author. A lot of games from the amateur scene are 'experimental', or some developers are in the middle of a learning curve. We can pick the best ones out as recommendations to our readers, but we're not going to hand out stars to those games. Share Share this post on Twitter

10-17-2003, 05:46 AM	#4
RemiO Antibacterial Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 327	Yeah, I don't really care if it's the work of one person or an entire team - if I have to pay for the game I want quality stuff. Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ Remi O Best site ever... ever!

10-17-2003, 05:52 AM	#5
Zygomaticus Liver of Life Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,317	It still costs much less than a real, professionally published game would...But I see what you're saying. Share Share this post on Twitter Last edited by Zygomaticus; 10-17-2003 at 09:15 AM.

10-17-2003, 08:01 AM	#7
Hiro Protagonist Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 117	I agree that the review may have been a little harsh, and I talked at length with the AG guys while I was writing it about how to judge this against other commercial games out there. I think Socko created a good game - espcially for a one man team. But I can buy Syberia or No One Lives Forever II for 15 bucks right now, and if you stack those up against Fatman, then there is just no competition. It was essentially the same thing as pitting Mall Tycoon IV against Sim City IV - nice try but it's just not all there. Do I think the game is worth playing? I absolutely do - with the voices turned off. Do I think the game is worth 15 bucks? Not at all - especially when I can go and download 5 Days a Stranger for free. I'm glad to see that the review elicited such a response. It's nice to see a forum where the readers are actually thinking about what they're reading and not just looking for flamebait. For what it's worth, I stand by what I said. This could have been a great amateur release or a mediocre commerical release. I commend the guts that Socko had to put it out in the commercial realm and take a chance, and I think that we are going to be astounded by these guys in the future. Share Share this post on Twitter

10-17-2003, 09:15 AM	#8
Ariel Type LA-S-LE Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Snow Country Posts: 549	Hmm, you can download Kings Quest 2 VGA for free, and the game by itself can compete with many commercial games. KQ2 is the game that is worth your money. If it was for sale. But Adventures of Fatman... The Demo didn't make me want to by the game. Share Share this post on Twitter

10-17-2003, 11:08 AM	#10
remixor A search for a crazy man! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 3,987	Definitely not 30 minutes. It's a game of fairly solid length. It seems the voice acting in this game polarizes people. I'm one of those who thought it was great. Not every voice was great, mind you, but on the whole I really enjoyed it, in no small part due to the narrator, who I thought did an absolutely brilliant job. It was intended to be a ridiculous accent, and was essentially parodying the typical deep narrator voice, and I thought it came off extremeley well. Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ Chris "News Editor" Remo Some sort of Writer or Editor or Something, Idle Thumbs "Some comparisons are a little less obvious. I always think of Grim Fandango as Casablanca on acid." - Will Wright Last edited by remixor; 10-17-2003 at 11:23 AM.

10-17-2003, 01:10 PM	#14
Skinny Minnie I'm really Cookin' Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: New England, USA Posts: 269	Hiro! Is that the same Hiro Protagonist that I knew back from the early days of Four Fat Chicks? If it's you, long time no gab, buddy (er, but I thought you hailed from Canada unless my brain is melting down, which is entirely possible). And if it's not the same you, well, hello you person who has the same online handle as an old friend of mine! In either case, your reviews are well-written and informative... Share Share this post on Twitter Last edited by Skinny Minnie; 10-17-2003 at 01:23 PM.

10-17-2003, 08:19 PM	#16
alastor66 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 4	Well, no matter if an adventure is indie or not, no matter if it has cutting edge graphics or not, if ones has good time playing it, I think it deserves full credits. Admittedly, Fatman has some glitches, but it's a very enjoyable game. Reviews like that are not healthy for indipendent developers.... Alastor Share Share this post on Twitter

10-17-2003, 11:50 PM	#17
DomStLeger Whinging Pom Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: London, England, UK Posts: 1,032	I think Ags line is right on this; for an ameatur adventure it would be very good but as if you're going to charge for the game then you have to accept it is judged along with other commerical releases. It does look good though, and I might check it out. But I'm saving up for big name commercial releases at the moment so it might not be for some time. Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ Dom Currently Playing Tex Murphey - Under a Killing Moon (YAY GOG.com!) Recently Completed Broken Sword Director's Cut Still Get Mozilla Firefox! Forget that Chrome and IE rubbish!

10-17-2003, 11:54 PM	#18
remixor A search for a crazy man! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 3,987	Just so people know, Mike of SOCKO! is currently considering a few options regarding Fatman. He may drop the price to $9.99 (still with free shipping) or he might offer the base game for free with a slight charge for the speech pack (which is a big reason the game is so large). Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ Chris "News Editor" Remo Some sort of Writer or Editor or Something, Idle Thumbs "Some comparisons are a little less obvious. I always think of Grim Fandango as Casablanca on acid." - Will Wright

10-18-2003, 12:28 AM	#20
remixor A search for a crazy man! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 3,987	Agreed, Marek. If anything, reviews like this send a signal to other amateur developers that will perhaps cause them to think "Hmmm... well, if Fatman got that kind of review, perhaps we'd better make sure our game is pretty damned good before we decide to tack on a price tag..." There's nothing wrong with that. And Mike's reaction to AG's review was not one of bitterness; his response was "Hey, I'm surprised I didn't get more like this." He clearly took it in the spirit in which it was intended. I still think the review was perhaps a bit harsh, but this is independant of the thoughts I've expressed in the above paragraph. Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ Chris "News Editor" Remo Some sort of Writer or Editor or Something, Idle Thumbs "Some comparisons are a little less obvious. I always think of Grim Fandango as Casablanca on acid." - Will Wright

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