The search function sucks

doughy white · 11-03-2003, 03:05 AM

Hi guys, I'm a little enervated by the search function in this forum. Why did you choose (or is it the standard in the program) to ask for a minimum of four letters? The problem is, I was looking for something special to do with BS3 (can't enter that term, too short), then I tried Broken Sword 3 (haha, 1 lettered word). That way I can only look for Broken Sword - and forget it as I have an employer sitting in my back. Many games are known by their abbreviations: MI, TLJ etc., none of them will work.

I hope you plan to alter this or the search function is pretty useless where special requests are concerned - hasn't anybody complained about this before?

remixor · 11-03-2003, 03:11 AM

I second this request. I'm not sure what the use for such a limitation is. All I can think of is that it keeps words like "the" from counting, but it's sort of an odd solution.

***tabacco*** · 11-03-2003, 06:41 AM

Firstly, you HAVE to understand that we did NOT write this forum software. vBulletin is developed by Jelsoft, and they make fundamental design decisions like that one. The reason three letter words are excluded is that vb3 builds two search index tables. One with a row for every word over three letters long used on the forum (currently 32,775 rows) and another with a row linking each word to the thread(s) it's used in (currently 286,165 rows). Now, if we included short words like "the" and "and" in there, how many rows do you think the index table (the big one) is going to be? It would be a waste of server resources and a waste of time, given the rarity of threads containing useful three letter words.

Besides, did you try searching for "Broken Sword 3" (with quotes)?

Firefoot · 11-03-2003, 06:46 AM

And if I remember correctly the SQL server does not support such short text searches too by default... But I must admit it is irritating if you look for something short...

***tabacco*** · 11-03-2003, 07:01 AM

No, the match()/against() functions do not allow words of three or fewer characters, but that's not how vb3 (or vb2, phpbb2, etc.) does searches. If you search for "doggy" it does a select on the words table to see what ID 'doggy' is. Then it does a query on the searchindex table, which gives it a list of all the threads 'doggy' is used in. It's actually faster than using fulltext searches via match()/against() but you pay a penalty at posting time to index every word, and a huge penalty if those indexes ever need to be rebuilt.

Firefoot · 11-03-2003, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabacco

No, the match()/against() functions do not allow words of three or fewer characters, but that's not how vb3 (or vb2, phpbb2, etc.) does searches. If you search for "doggy" it does a select on the words table to see what ID 'doggy' is. Then it does a query on the searchindex table, which gives it a list of all the threads 'doggy' is used in. It's actually faster than using fulltext searches via match()/against() but you pay a penalty at posting time to index every word, and a huge penalty if those indexes ever need to be rebuilt.

Wow...! That must be a really big table by now... So when are you starting the AGers dictionary?

I guess the penalty when posting balances the searching at least... I guess it does, or else they haven't done it like that... Interesting, never knew that!

***tabacco*** · 11-03-2003, 07:11 AM

Like I posted earlier, the searchindex table has 286,165 rows right now.

doughy white · 11-03-2003, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabacco

Like I posted earlier, the searchindex table has 286,165 rows right now.

I'm not so much interested in the depths of the program, but you're right the quotation marks help, thanks. Maybe that and any other support for searchers should be visible when one presses the search button? I don't think many people know of this.

***tabacco*** · 11-03-2003, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doughy white

I'm not so much interested in the depths of the program, but you're right the quotation marks help, thanks. Maybe that and any other support for searchers should be visible when one presses the search button? I don't think many people know of this.

Again, I didn't write the forum software. Jelsoft did. Right now, it's in beta, so the search help page is incomplete. See my other post regarding forum upgrades for info on when we can get RC1 installed.

*Stinger* · 11-03-2003, 11:31 AM

Incidentally, I searched for "Doug" and "rage" and found this thread with no problems.

- Evan

11-03-2003, 03:05 AM	#1
doughy white Head up in the clouds Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Munich, Germany Posts: 207	The search function sucks Hi guys, I'm a little enervated by the search function in this forum. Why did you choose (or is it the standard in the program) to ask for a minimum of four letters? The problem is, I was looking for something special to do with BS3 (can't enter that term, too short), then I tried Broken Sword 3 (haha, 1 lettered word). That way I can only look for Broken Sword - and forget it as I have an employer sitting in my back. Many games are known by their abbreviations: MI, TLJ etc., none of them will work. I hope you plan to alter this or the search function is pretty useless where special requests are concerned - hasn't anybody complained about this before? Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ 1000 words say more than a picture. To the world you are someone, but to someone you are the world.

11-03-2003, 03:11 AM	#2
remixor A search for a crazy man! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 3,987	I second this request. I'm not sure what the use for such a limitation is. All I can think of is that it keeps words like "the" from counting, but it's sort of an odd solution. Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ Chris "News Editor" Remo Some sort of Writer or Editor or Something, Idle Thumbs "Some comparisons are a little less obvious. I always think of Grim Fandango as Casablanca on acid." - Will Wright

11-03-2003, 06:41 AM	#3
*tabacco* Friendly Server Admin Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Marin County, CA Posts: 4,087	Firstly, you HAVE to understand that we did NOT write this forum software. vBulletin is developed by Jelsoft, and they make fundamental design decisions like that one. The reason three letter words are excluded is that vb3 builds two search index tables. One with a row for every word over three letters long used on the forum (currently 32,775 rows) and another with a row linking each word to the thread(s) it's used in (currently 286,165 rows). Now, if we included short words like "the" and "and" in there, how many rows do you think the index table (the big one) is going to be? It would be a waste of server resources and a waste of time, given the rarity of threads containing useful three letter words. Besides, did you try searching for "Broken Sword 3" (with quotes)? Share Share this post on Twitter

11-03-2003, 06:46 AM	#4
Firefoot Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 495	And if I remember correctly the SQL server does not support such short text searches too by default... But I must admit it is irritating if you look for something short... Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ Boxes get lonely from time to time, people put them up the shelves so that they can have some company... No, really! - Ren Silver Emma is unbeatable, but here are My DVD's...

11-03-2003, 07:01 AM	#5
*tabacco* Friendly Server Admin Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Marin County, CA Posts: 4,087	No, the match()/against() functions do not allow words of three or fewer characters, but that's not how vb3 (or vb2, phpbb2, etc.) does searches. If you search for "doggy" it does a select on the words table to see what ID 'doggy' is. Then it does a query on the searchindex table, which gives it a list of all the threads 'doggy' is used in. It's actually faster than using fulltext searches via match()/against() but you pay a penalty at posting time to index every word, and a huge penalty if those indexes ever need to be rebuilt. Share Share this post on Twitter

11-03-2003, 07:11 AM	#7
*tabacco* Friendly Server Admin Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Marin County, CA Posts: 4,087	Like I posted earlier, the searchindex table has 286,165 rows right now. Share Share this post on Twitter

11-03-2003, 11:31 AM	#10
Stinger Retirement is stupid Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Central Oregon, USA Posts: 960	Incidentally, I searched for "Doug" and "rage" and found this thread with no problems. - Evan Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ / Evan Dickens / Retired Editor-in-Chief "An episodic sociopathic lagomorph? The mind boggles."

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