[Erwin_Br]

Here's a thread about the review on the AGS forums: http://www.agsforums.com/yabb/index....;threadid=9095

--Erwin

[Nellie]

I think Socko created a good game - espcially for a one man team. But I can buy Syberia or No One Lives Forever II for 15 bucks right now, and if you stack those up against Fatman, then there is just no competition.

But you're comparing Syberia's budget price with Fatman's full price. That's not fair - in the same amount of time it took Syberia to drop in price, you might find Fatman has dropped to a fiver or something.

The comparison should be - is Fatman worth buying at full price as much as Syberia was worth buying at full price? ie - is this new game which costs me half as much as Syberia did when it was new, at least half as good as Syberia?

[Erwin_Br]

Originally Posted by Nellie

But you're comparing Syberia's budget price with Fatman's full price. That's not fair - in the same amount of time it took Syberia to drop in price, you might find Fatman has dropped to a fiver or something.

The comparison should be - is Fatman worth buying at full price as much as Syberia was worth buying at full price? ie - is this new game which costs me half as much as Syberia did when it was new, at least half as good as Syberia?

I don't think the price should be measured in a review, It's not relevant to the quality of the game. The same goes for how big the development team is. (Or in this case, how small)

I mean, I don't think a reviewer would give Grim Fandango a higher score because their development team was bigger than Tony Tough's. Same goes for price.

--Erwin

[Hiro Protagonist]

Just so people know, Mike of SOCKO! is currently considering a few options regarding Fatman. He may drop the price to $9.99 (still with free shipping) or he might offer the base game for free with a slight charge for the speech pack (which is a big reason the game is so large).

I think it would be a great idea to charge for the speech pack and offer the game for free since, as remixor put it, that seems to be the thing that most people love or hate about the game.

This will probably be my last post on the subject - naaah - but here's the bottom line. I wasn't trying to play 'beat on the amateur' with this review, and frankly I don't see many areas where it was all that harsh. I didn't like the voice support so I suggested turning it off. I liked the Fatman character graphic but I thought the rest looked like programmer art. The puzzles were good but there was some pixel hunting that would have been unthinkable in a commercial game. And as far as the story, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That's it. It didn't get two stars because I'm a meany. It got two stars because it doesn't stack up against other commercial releases - which like it or not, it is. Hell, I only gave Sanitarium 3 stars, and it's practically a legend.

I'm glad you guys are so willing to discuss this, and I'm glad that Mike is looking at other options. He has put out one of the best games using the AGS engine that I have seen, and I can't wait to see what he does next.

And as the human torch says, 'Flame On'...

[Stinger]

Let me make this totally clear: the price of Fatman is a big part of the review, as well it should be. Lack of a price is why we don't review amateur adventures with stars. If Fatman cost, say, $3, I think a slightly higher score would be justified. If it cost $40, it would definitely deserve 1 or 1.5 stars because it's laughably below that level of quality. Developers set their own bar when they set the original price of that game.

I spoke a lot about our review system in another topic, and am not eager to go through it all again. But we always welcome constructive criticism of our review index, and we're always trying to get a little better.

For what it's worth, I originally was going to review Fatman and passed it on to Robert because of time issues. I played through about half of it before sending it to him. I think that, if anything, Robert was very diplomatic in his review. Fatman would have been amateur game of the year. It's just a very good commercial game. And none of this should be taken as a personal offense towards Mike Doak, who is an exceptionally nice guy, and I have no doubt he will use the constructive criticism to make his future games better.

- Evan

[Erwin_Br]

Originally Posted by Stinger

Let me make this totally clear: the price of Fatman is a big part of the review, as well it should be.

Does this mean your review of Tony Tough was also influenced by it's relatively low pricetag?

Offtopic: You can buy Tony Tough for only $12,99 right now.

--Erwin

[Hiro Protagonist]

Hey guys,

Just a quick note...
I noticed in the AGS forums that there was some concern that my comparison of Fatman's graphics to the RON series was meant as an insult. Just for the record, I am a huge fan of the series, and the graphical comparison was meant as just that - a comparison - and not as an insult.

[DaveGilbert]

Ha! You asnwered my questions just as I was writing it. The RON thing was the only part that bothered me, since you make a point of reviewing it as a commercial product, comparing it to an amateur game seemed out of place. Plus the RON graphics are so inconsistant (they vary from jaw-droppingly gorgeous to eye-gougingly horrible) it is difficult to understand exactly what you meant.

[Stinger]

Originally Posted by Erwin_Br

Does this mean your review of Tony Tough was also influenced by it's relatively low pricetag?

No, because its "relatively low pricetag" didn't exist. It was $30 when it was released, which is pretty much exactly average for a commercial adventure game.

- Evan

[Erwin_Br]

Originally Posted by Stinger

No, because its "relatively low pricetag" didn't exist. It was $30 when it was released, which is pretty much exactly average for a commercial adventure game.

- Evan

Oops, don't remember it's initial price. My bad.

--Erwin

[remixor]

Just so people are aware, SOCKO! Entertainment is closing its doors at the end of the year due to tax reasons, so if you want to order your copy of Fatman, you'd better do it soon. After SOCKO! is gone, Fatman will be declared abandonware; Mike Doak is not planning on supporting or hosting Fatman, and will be moving on to other things. Personally, despite the AG review, I think it's worth at least considering. He has dropped the price to $9.99 (still with free shipping) and it's hard to beat this deal. You could easily spend more than that on lunch.

Website is http://socko-entertainment.com/

[Tom_K]

Originally Posted by remixor

Just so people are aware, SOCKO! Entertainment is closing its doors at the end of the year due to tax reasons, so if you want to order your copy of Fatman, you'd better do it soon. After SOCKO! is gone, Fatman will be declared abandonware; Mike Doak is not planning on supporting or hosting Fatman, and will be moving on to other things. Personally, despite the AG review, I think it's worth at least considering. He has dropped the price to $9.99 (still with free shipping) and it's hard to beat this deal. You could easily spend more than that on lunch.

Website is http://socko-entertainment.com/

Putting my order in this weekend. Hate to hear that he's had to close, that's a true shame.

[Zygomaticus]

Originally Posted by remixor

SOCKO! Entertainment is closing its doors at the end of the year due to tax reasons

[jannar85]

Originally Posted by Marek

We have a very simple editorial guideline. If a game is being sold commercially, and isn't available as freeware anywhere, it should be reviewed on the same level as every other game we've reviewed. We don't throw stars around randomly--these games have to earn them just as much as other games. Examples: Fatman, Sydney Mystery and Dark Fall.

The developer has actually announced it to be abandonware.


The url:
http://www.agsforums.com/yabb/index....tart=msg112268