LucasArts games - Page 2

Kingzjester · 09-16-2003, 02:22 AM

If anything you may be overcritical of LEC games, just because you have a special quality scale for LEC games.

remixor · 09-16-2003, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingzjester

If anything you may be overcritical of LEC games, just because you have a special quality scale for LEC games.

I think you're right, actually. I've noticed that in the past, but it didn't even occur to me when this thread was started.

Also, I think twif is correct in saying that this would be better on the front page. After all, we can't think you guys are that biased, or we wouldn't hang around the place so much

That being said, it might be SLIGHTLY dangerous on the front page since it could possibly draw attention towards a non-existant-but-perceived bias to people who'd never even thought of it.

twifkak · 09-16-2003, 05:12 AM

Trudat.!.!

*Jake* · 09-19-2003, 08:42 AM

I guess everyone here knows that AG hosted on LucasForums just because it was almost effortless. I just needed to click the "add forum" button and make up a fake theme from some art Marek emailed me, and we were set.

I know you act surprised at the top of this post, Marek, but I've always sort of felt that the AG staff has known its perceived as being a bit LucasArts-biased and has intentionally fought against it a bit. For instance, any self respecting LucasArts-loving site would really have given Grim a 5 out of 5.

Considering AG didn't, while giving the perfect score to Broken Sword 1, Gabriel Knight 3, and ... The Longest Journey (cough)... something's gotta be up, and I think it might be overcompensation.

remixor · 09-19-2003, 09:33 AM

...and I still don't know quite how to explain the disparity between MI 3 and 4.

(btw, Jake, I think you could have quite a valid observation there)

RemiO · 09-20-2003, 03:14 AM

Damn it, I hate agreeing with Jake.
But he makes a point.
Now go give Grim a 5 and TLJ a 3.5.

***Marek*** · 09-20-2003, 03:27 AM

I would like to re-review TLJ and give it 4.5 stars to compensate for the hype it got, but it would be unethical. The score has been quoted on TLJ boxes, the website, etc.

Maccas · 09-28-2003, 05:03 PM

I think you might have a bias towards new games whereas most of us have a bias towards old games. Runaway and Syberia both got 4.5 and I think you'd have difficulty finding people who would rank them above a lot of your 4 star games such as Discowrld Noir, The Colonel's Bequest or Blade Runner. I agree with most of your review scores and I personally love Syberia but I think you're being affected by hype just like your TLJ review, it's just my opinion so feel free to make fun of it.

DomStLeger · 09-28-2003, 09:51 PM

I entirely agree with you marek, you shouldn't do retrospective reviewing for that reason.

I sort of agree with you Macca (the Syberia score was a little igh imo, though I must admit I didn't love the game so perhaps I can't fairly judge it when the majority of people seem to have done). But having said that, I think games should partly be reviewed in comparison to contempoary games, because you can't keep looking back and judging it against something like MI, because the times were so different imo, and the genre has changed.

***Marek*** · 09-28-2003, 11:04 PM

That is very very true Dom, and it's also one of the major points in an editorial I'm writing for AG. Couldn't agree more!

twifkak · 09-29-2003, 01:58 AM

I think different reviewers have different takes on things, somewhat. (How can you not like the music????!!!) So that confuses public opinion a bit.

In any case, I'll be interested to read your thread, 'cause I'm one of those that thinks things should be compared across time, all else equal (which it isn't).

Maccas · 09-30-2003, 03:03 AM

I think its exactly the opposite, reviewers are lookig back and saying... well the graphics are better, the sound is beeter and its on a more epic scale, it must be a better game, when its really not, despite the "rose-coloured glasses" syndrome I think perhaps reviewers are overcompensating for it.

Ninth · 11-19-2003, 11:13 PM

I know it's been a long time since this thread died, but still:
as someone said, not only are you not biased, but you seem to be harsher with Lucas games, even though they're undoubtedly the best games around.
That's not bias, that's (subjective, but not entierely so) facts. I mean, at the time I played both Lucas and Sierra games, and well, Lucas were gems, whereas Sierra's where just good games.

And to say you have to give better grades to adventures just because they're newer and prettier is a nonsense. Monkey Island can be compared to Runaway, and with all it's old graphics, it's still better, on the Gameplay and Sound and story and feeling side. But Runaway gets a lot of hype because it has got prettier graphics, which I think is unfair.
Well, MI is not the best example, but to see Indy 4 and Runaway get the same grade sickens me. Indy may loose on the graphics side (I do prefer indy's graphics, but I'm being biased here), but on every other aspects it wins by a long range, and so the global grade should be a lot different. (5 for indy and 3 for runaway, I'd say)
Shouldn't it?

Erwin_Br · 11-20-2003, 01:09 AM

Well, our comunity might be somewhat biased towards LucasArts, but that doesn't much say about AG itself.

The same goes for JA, which forum community mostly consists of Sierra fans. I don't think JA itself is biased towards Sierra.

I guess the forum communities of both AG and JA are contributing a lot to their image. --Yes, we forum people are more important than you might think

--Erwin

Ninth · 11-20-2003, 02:32 AM

Hm, I have to disagree, here, at least regarding JA.
I think they are biased, seeing how Space quest 1 and 5 got an A rating, while Monkey Island got a C and Indy3 �* D.
To me, that's blatantly unfair.
Furthermore, I think it's weird that a guy who admits he doesn't like 3rd person game to review MI, or any Lucas game for that matter. Especially stating at the beginning that he knows he is voicing an unpopular opinion.
I mean, I'm fine with controversial reviews, as long as you can find another review to balance it, but here it's not the case; just an infamous C.
I'm angry. Too bad I don't know how to make the appropriate smiley.

Erwin_Br · 11-20-2003, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninth

Hm, I have to disagree, here, at least regarding JA.
I think they are biased, seeing how Space quest 1 and 5 got an A rating, while Monkey Island got a C and Indy3 �* D.
To me, that's blatantly unfair.

Yes, but DOTT got A, CMI got A, Grim Fandango got A, Full Throttle got A, Indy FOA got A, need go on?

So you disagree with two ratings and that's supposed to make JA biased?

Also note that the scores for Sierra's games are quite diverse too. They're not all getting A and B scores!

Quote:

Furthermore, I think it's weird that a guy who admits he doesn't like 3rd person game to review MI, or any Lucas game for that matter. Especially stating at the beginning that he knows he is voicing an unpopular opinion.
I mean, I'm fine with controversial reviews, as long as you can find another review to balance it, but here it's not the case; just an infamous C.

True, but that's a whole other discussion. I'd lie if I'd say I agree with Ray Ivey's MI and MI2 reviews. But that's just a personal opinion of course.

Quote:

I'm angry. Too bad I don't know how to make the appropriate smiley.

How about:

--Erwin

*Stinger* · 11-20-2003, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninth

And to say you have to give better grades to adventures just because they're newer and prettier is a nonsense. Monkey Island can be compared to Runaway, and with all it's old graphics, it's still better, on the Gameplay and Sound and story and feeling side. But Runaway gets a lot of hype because it has got prettier graphics, which I think is unfair.
Well, MI is not the best example, but to see Indy 4 and Runaway get the same grade sickens me. Indy may loose on the graphics side (I do prefer indy's graphics, but I'm being biased here), but on every other aspects it wins by a long range, and so the global grade should be a lot different. (5 for indy and 3 for runaway, I'd say)
Shouldn't it?

No. But thanks for asking.

- Evan

Ninth · 11-20-2003, 02:45 PM

Oh, ok Stinger... You don't happen to have some kind of relationship with the people who give out the grades at AG, do you? Nah, I'm sure you don't. :|

And Erwin, you're right about ratings, it's just that those I pointed out seemed so bizarre to me that I didn't really try to look them all up before I posted. My mistake.

Still, Full Throttle get more than MI? Tsk, tsk...

Oh, and how do you do smileys, generally speaking? Is there a list somewhere? Or do you have to know the shortcuts (if I may call them that)?

syntheticgerbil · 11-20-2003, 02:57 PM

I think you guys have a bias for Lucas Arts games and frankly I don't care because I have a bias for Lucas Arts games too.

I think you wouldn't convey this if you just tried to review many of the Sierra games that are absent from the site.

I still don't understand what makes THe Longest Journey so amazing...

Ninth · 11-20-2003, 03:06 PM

Er, incredible graphics, good story, interesting caracters, fun puzzles and great length is quite enough, isn't it?

View Poll Results: Is AG biased towards LucasArts?
No.	44	74.58%
No, but you might be giving that impression.	9	15.25%
Yes.	6	10.17%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

09-16-2003, 02:22 AM	#21
Kingzjester Tactlessly understated Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Niceshire Posts: 2,045	If anything you may be overcritical of LEC games, just because you have a special quality scale for LEC games. Share Share this post on Twitter

09-16-2003, 05:12 AM	#23
twifkak :P ^^^ at tamz Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Football Town, USA Posts: 1,354	Trudat.!.! Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ In the next AG crash ___\| A temporary board ____\| I am born to spam In the "Get New" list __\| Scrolling up and down \| I am born to spam through a broadband ISP \| i am back to steal your bandwidth --Spammo-head, "Windbag"

09-19-2003, 08:42 AM	#24
Jake The Dartmaster Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Rafael, California Posts: 3,084	I guess everyone here knows that AG hosted on LucasForums just because it was almost effortless. I just needed to click the "add forum" button and make up a fake theme from some art Marek emailed me, and we were set. I know you act surprised at the top of this post, Marek, but I've always sort of felt that the AG staff has known its perceived as being a bit LucasArts-biased and has intentionally fought against it a bit. For instance, any self respecting LucasArts-loving site would really have given Grim a 5 out of 5. Considering AG didn't, while giving the perfect score to Broken Sword 1, Gabriel Knight 3, and ... The Longest Journey (cough)... something's gotta be up, and I think it might be overcompensation. Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ When on the Internet, visit Idle Thumbs \| Mixnmojo \| Sam & Max.net \| Telltale Games "I was one of the original lovers." - Evan Dickens

09-19-2003, 09:33 AM	#25
remixor A search for a crazy man! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 3,987	...and I still don't know quite how to explain the disparity between MI 3 and 4. (btw, Jake, I think you could have quite a valid observation there) Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ Chris "News Editor" Remo Some sort of Writer or Editor or Something, Idle Thumbs "Some comparisons are a little less obvious. I always think of Grim Fandango as Casablanca on acid." - Will Wright

09-20-2003, 03:14 AM	#26
RemiO Antibacterial Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 327	Damn it, I hate agreeing with Jake. But he makes a point. Now go give Grim a 5 and TLJ a 3.5. Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ Remi O Best site ever... ever!

09-20-2003, 03:27 AM	#27
*Marek* Puts the 'e' in Mark Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,138	I would like to re-review TLJ and give it 4.5 stars to compensate for the hype it got, but it would be unethical. The score has been quoted on TLJ boxes, the website, etc. Share Share this post on Twitter

09-28-2003, 05:03 PM	#28
Maccas Dazed, not Confused Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 43	I think you might have a bias towards new games whereas most of us have a bias towards old games. Runaway and Syberia both got 4.5 and I think you'd have difficulty finding people who would rank them above a lot of your 4 star games such as Discowrld Noir, The Colonel's Bequest or Blade Runner. I agree with most of your review scores and I personally love Syberia but I think you're being affected by hype just like your TLJ review, it's just my opinion so feel free to make fun of it. Share Share this post on Twitter

09-28-2003, 09:51 PM	#29
DomStLeger Whinging Pom Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: London, England, UK Posts: 1,032	I entirely agree with you marek, you shouldn't do retrospective reviewing for that reason. I sort of agree with you Macca (the Syberia score was a little igh imo, though I must admit I didn't love the game so perhaps I can't fairly judge it when the majority of people seem to have done). But having said that, I think games should partly be reviewed in comparison to contempoary games, because you can't keep looking back and judging it against something like MI, because the times were so different imo, and the genre has changed. Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ Dom Currently Playing Tex Murphey - Under a Killing Moon (YAY GOG.com!) Recently Completed Broken Sword Director's Cut Still Get Mozilla Firefox! Forget that Chrome and IE rubbish!

09-28-2003, 11:04 PM	#30
*Marek* Puts the 'e' in Mark Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 3,138	That is very very true Dom, and it's also one of the major points in an editorial I'm writing for AG. Couldn't agree more! Share Share this post on Twitter

09-29-2003, 01:58 AM	#31
twifkak :P ^^^ at tamz Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Football Town, USA Posts: 1,354	I think different reviewers have different takes on things, somewhat. (How can you not like the music????!!!) So that confuses public opinion a bit. In any case, I'll be interested to read your thread, 'cause I'm one of those that thinks things should be compared across time, all else equal (which it isn't). Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ In the next AG crash ___\| A temporary board ____\| I am born to spam In the "Get New" list __\| Scrolling up and down \| I am born to spam through a broadband ISP \| i am back to steal your bandwidth --Spammo-head, "Windbag"

09-30-2003, 03:03 AM	#32
Maccas Dazed, not Confused Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 43	I think its exactly the opposite, reviewers are lookig back and saying... well the graphics are better, the sound is beeter and its on a more epic scale, it must be a better game, when its really not, despite the "rose-coloured glasses" syndrome I think perhaps reviewers are overcompensating for it. Share Share this post on Twitter

11-19-2003, 11:13 PM	#33
Ninth Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Paris, France Posts: 6,409	I know it's been a long time since this thread died, but still: as someone said, not only are you not biased, but you seem to be harsher with Lucas games, even though they're undoubtedly the best games around. That's not bias, that's (subjective, but not entierely so) facts. I mean, at the time I played both Lucas and Sierra games, and well, Lucas were gems, whereas Sierra's where just good games. And to say you have to give better grades to adventures just because they're newer and prettier is a nonsense. Monkey Island can be compared to Runaway, and with all it's old graphics, it's still better, on the Gameplay and Sound and story and feeling side. But Runaway gets a lot of hype because it has got prettier graphics, which I think is unfair. Well, MI is not the best example, but to see Indy 4 and Runaway get the same grade sickens me. Indy may loose on the graphics side (I do prefer indy's graphics, but I'm being biased here), but on every other aspects it wins by a long range, and so the global grade should be a lot different. (5 for indy and 3 for runaway, I'd say) Shouldn't it? Share Share this post on Twitter

11-20-2003, 01:09 AM	#34
Erwin_Br Under pressure. Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands Posts: 3,773	Well, our comunity might be somewhat biased towards LucasArts, but that doesn't much say about AG itself. The same goes for JA, which forum community mostly consists of Sierra fans. I don't think JA itself is biased towards Sierra. I guess the forum communities of both AG and JA are contributing a lot to their image. --Yes, we forum people are more important than you might think --Erwin Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ > Learn more about my forthcoming point & click adventure: Bad Timing! > Or... Visit Adventure Developers: Everything about developing adventure games.

11-20-2003, 02:32 AM	#35
Ninth Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Paris, France Posts: 6,409	Hm, I have to disagree, here, at least regarding JA. I think they are biased, seeing how Space quest 1 and 5 got an A rating, while Monkey Island got a C and Indy3 �* D. To me, that's blatantly unfair. Furthermore, I think it's weird that a guy who admits he doesn't like 3rd person game to review MI, or any Lucas game for that matter. Especially stating at the beginning that he knows he is voicing an unpopular opinion. I mean, I'm fine with controversial reviews, as long as you can find another review to balance it, but here it's not the case; just an infamous C. I'm angry. Too bad I don't know how to make the appropriate smiley. Share Share this post on Twitter

User Name		Remember Me?
Password

11-20-2003, 02:45 PM	#38
Ninth Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Paris, France Posts: 6,409	Oh, ok Stinger... You don't happen to have some kind of relationship with the people who give out the grades at AG, do you? Nah, I'm sure you don't. :\| And Erwin, you're right about ratings, it's just that those I pointed out seemed so bizarre to me that I didn't really try to look them all up before I posted. My mistake. Still, Full Throttle get more than MI? Tsk, tsk... Oh, and how do you do smileys, generally speaking? Is there a list somewhere? Or do you have to know the shortcuts (if I may call them that)? Share Share this post on Twitter

11-20-2003, 02:57 PM	#39
syntheticgerbil Banned User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Rubbish Posts: 535	I think you guys have a bias for Lucas Arts games and frankly I don't care because I have a bias for Lucas Arts games too. I think you wouldn't convey this if you just tried to review many of the Sierra games that are absent from the site. I still don't understand what makes THe Longest Journey so amazing... Share Share this post on Twitter

11-20-2003, 03:06 PM	#40
Ninth Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Paris, France Posts: 6,409	Er, incredible graphics, good story, interesting caracters, fun puzzles and great length is quite enough, isn't it? Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ ...It's down there somewhere. Let me have another look.