[Jackal]

A number of rather unfortunate trends have been apparent in Chit Chat for quite a while now, and as they seem to be getting worse, I think it's finally time to address them head on.

As its name suggests, Chit Chat is certainly intended to be a casual forum for discussing any and all areas of interest other than games. Posts aren't counted, it's lightly moderated, and it's expected to have a somewhat relaxed atmosphere. That said, it's important to remember that it is still a discussion board, and that carries with it a certain degree of inherent protocol that seems to be disappearing rapidly. Or perhaps not rapidly so much as noticeably. The spiralling out of control has been constant and gradual, but like a funneling drain, the emptier it gets, the more blatant it becomes. However it's described, the end result is a forum that's losing much of what should make it worthwhile to the wider community.

One solution would be to try ruling with an iron fist. That ain't gonna happen. It's not something we want, and would ultimately do more harm than good. We don't want to impose rules, but rather encourage positive change. It's you guys that need to make it happen, so consider this an appeal to reflect on the goals of this forum and your contributions to it.

I think the easiest way to approach the issue is to first identify what the forum is NOT. (Or currently is, but needs to stop being.)

#1 - Chit Chat is not a surrogate chat room

This is by FAR the biggest problem at the moment. There are way too many threads that quickly become nothing more than time-delayed instant messaging conversations. Whether as a group or select individuals conversing with each other, this is not appropriate. Is it okay to occasionally take a thread off topic, or branch out from the original subject with other related issues? Of course. Is it okay to treat any thread as an excuse to begin personal conversations or resume ongoing dialogues that are interesting only to you? No. As much as it may amuse a small clique of regulars, it alienates everyone else and effectively kills threads as a place for meaningful discussion.

Obviously this does not mean you can't kid around a bit or insert a random aside here and there. What it DOES mean is that the first sign of such an event is not license for everyone to immediately crowd the bandwagon and ensure a permanent derailment. When posting, ask yourself if you're writing in response to the thread topic or a subsequent related post or if you're simply addressing your post TO someone for personal enjoyment. If the latter, then use some discretion about whether you're actually making a positive contribution.

#2 - Chit Chat is not a personal blog or webspace

The idea of an isolated AG blog thread is perfectly valid, but there is no need or reason to have a variety of blog threads just to record everything you do and think about everything every day, or to respond to others doing the same (see #1). Am I exaggerating? Of course, a little. But it's getting to the point where it feels closer to the truth than not. This kind of perpetual group-navel-gazing just means yet another thread about yourselves. Needless to say, that's not the only topic worth discussing, and certainly with a very limited appeal to the wider community. What wider community, you say? Exactly! When people come to Chit Chat and can't find much of anything worthwhile being discussed without an intimate knowledge of the most vocal posters, there's very little reason to stay. For every occasional individual that joins in over time, creating the illusion that it's an inclusive group, others are leaving or avoiding the forum in equal or greater numbers. Perhaps not even in a moment of conscious decision, but simply as a result of increased indifference to the prevailing focus of the forum.

#3 - Chit Chat is not a Seinfeld episode

While a few amusing games and activities here and there are more than acceptable, its seems that new threads are appearing that take the Seinfeldian concept of being about nothing to grotesque new levels. These are quite obviously just meant to provide new avenues for #'s 1 and 2 above, and that's just silly and annoying. If you're starting a new thread, please put some thought into whether it has any value or not. If you have to stop and think about it, that's probably a pretty good indication. We may, in fact, consider locking or deleting new threads that are clearly designed to serve no community purpose at all, but hopefully that won't be necessary.

#4 - Chit Chat is not a 900-number

This actually didn't deserve a heading of its own, but since it's the most misunderstood issue of all, I figured I'd make sure it got everyone's attention. Let's be clear about one thing right away: sex is not a taboo topic at AG. What is inappopriate is continually making sexual remarks or innuendo where it doesn't belong.

Really I see this more as a byproduct of the other problems than one of its own. It's the chat room/blog atmosphere that encourages people to constantly raise the subject, either seriously or in jest. As a result, it's the context that makes it inappropriate, not the content. Aside from a few very specific instances of excess, for the most part the fact that it's sexual in nature has nothing to do with the problem. If people insisted on making blonde jokes, berating American politics, or debating interior decorating with the same frequency and disregard for the threads they disrupt, we would have the exact same problem. But of course those aren't as racy and titillating, so sex is the chosen topic to endlessly revisit. So drop the "prude" argument now if you feel inclined to raise it, because it's completely irrelevant. The issue is that constantly referring to anything is monotonous and tiresome at best. I've used the word "juvenile" before and I'll do it again. It's not that the topic of sex itself is juvenile, but thinking that any thread inherently becomes more interesting by its mere presence is what's juvenile. Please, by all means, discuss sexual issues openly if you wish. Just do it with some sense of maturity and responsibility, and in its proper place. Otherwise you're really just Beavis & Butthead still snickering that I said "tit" earlier. And if you feel the need to share every detail of your latest conquest (or failure), then consult point #2. Everyone would do well to remember the words of the comedian (I think it was Dennis Miller) who said, "Nothing interests me more than my own orgasm, and nothing interests me less than yours."

On a related note is the matter of flirting. I don't really see this as an ongoing issue, just a sporadic one, but let's at least cover it while we're at it. As should be obvious by the previous points, blatant and repetitive flirting is simply not acceptable. Again, not because of some Puritanical standard, but because it's a personal dialogue by its very nature, and personal conversations are not appropriate, period. As always, a few harmless remarks here and there are fine, but if you do so, realize that it's already become old long before you stop to wonder if it's bothering anybody. Let me reiterate the standard cliché: if you want to do it, get a room. A public discussion board is not the place for it.

[Jackal]

So that about wraps up the main themes. At this stage, if you're thinking that correcting these things will suck all the life out of the forum, then you need to understand that the lifeblood of the forum is people. Without people there is no life, and in its current form, Chit Chat appeals only to an ever-decreasing number of people. Those of you who are forum regulars may feel called out by this, but really these problems pre-dated most of you, and will probably continue after you're gone. This isn't about blame but about improvement. Blame looks backwards, improvement looks forward. If you've been involved in the matters listed above, we're not trying to shame you and drive you away from the forum. Quite the opposite. As the most vocal posters, we want your help and cooperation in leading Chit Chat back into being the kind of forum it's intended to be.

And what kind is that? Well, one that's less club, more community. One where diversity and more widespread participation is welcomed rather than the same small group dominating with the same small conversations. I suspect our current regulars are even stifling themselves. I can't believe this group isn't capable of so much more imagination and variety than what's currently clogging Chit Chat.

I know some of you have formed friendships out of Chit Chat, and think that these changes won't allow for that in future. I disagree. You'll have just as much or more chance to make friendships, but if you want to develop those friendships, then pursue that elsewhere, because the forum isn't a catch-all for social interaction. If you want to stand around the water cooler discussing your day, then by all means make use of the unofficial IRC that's already been established. If you want to simply talk with one or two individuals, then use the PM function you each have access to. That's what it's for. And, of course, there are plenty of external options available to you - email, IM, Skype, you name it. The forum isn't meant to suit all of your needs, so avail yourselves of the other avenues open to you.

Really it's up to you forumites to make this work. We can't moderate thoughtfulness, we can't dictate common sense, we can't police discretion. We can only ask that you be respectful of those outside your inner circle, and be mindful of the goals of the forum. To those who have fallen away from Chit Chat because of less desirable changes over time, now's the time for you to make contributions as well. Start a thread, post your opinion, get involved again. If we can get moving in more or less the same direction again, it'll take everyone to accomplish it.

You're welcome to weigh in on this, but please don't bother arguing specifics. Of course I'm generalizing and trying to summarize (believe it or not, this is summarized!) complex issues in simple terms, so I'm sure people can find trivial points to debate. But the basic trends are indisputable, as is the consensus among staff that a change is needed, so I'm hoping for some positive results going forward, even if we stumble a bit trying to find our way.

[UPtimist]

I have to agree with this.

I won't say that I haven't fallen for some of these, but it has all gradually indeed been going into a more and more mindless direction. I think these really lead to a better road...

Though for some reason I've seen this currently in other forums too

That's my highly valuable part-taking, I'm sure.

[Relek]

I support this 100%, compared to most forums this is a culturally and intellectually retarded forum. It's time we stop masturbating over eachothers so called "wit". I mean, come on, the World of Warcraft off topic forum is more interesting than this, sure it is infested with leet kiddies but at least all the threads don't all turn into "let's talk about eachother and be totally oblivious of the interesting events that occur in the world every day" threads.

[Giligan]

I'm with this all the way. I think the Chit-Chat section has slowly decayed, and it's time that that is changed.

[Spiwak]

Totally agreed. I don't even read chit-chat that much anymore because of how ridiculous it is nowadays.

[Lucien21]

I stop really reading chit chat weeks ago.

I tried posting a thread about it and it descended into one of the mindless drivel threads mentioned above.

[Relek]

I've tried to revitalise the forum with the spoiler thread and the interesting thread (which didn't last long) but I failed

[UPtimist]

I've thought that the "The _________ Threads" are part of the problem. They usually don't really add any real content, just random posts about random subjects...

[bulldog]

Originally Posted by UPtimist

I've thought that the "The _________ Threads" are part of the problem. They usually don't really add any real content, just random posts about random subjects...

That is what I thought as well. I am also very guilty of making random remarks about flirting and sex in the thread. I'm very sorry.

[Relek]

Originally Posted by UPtimist

I've thought that the "The _________ Threads" are part of the problem. They usually don't really add any real content, just random posts about random subjects...

Heh, yeah I never thought of that, oops

[SCRUGAtes13]

i have to agree with you on this, pinkgothic.

[pinkgothic]

In case anyone is wondering about the reference there - I removed my post, so, sorry for the confusion.

[Relek]

Informal chatting is fine, it's just that this forum has become so god damn repetitive, that's the only thing that we will be saying good bye to, not the relaxing chatter.

[Squinky]

As a perpetrator of the repetitive personal chatter, I apologise. It was a lot of fun while it lasted, sure, but I understand the need for forums to remain forums and will conduct myself accordingly from this point forward.

[Melanie68]

Thanks Jackal.

Edit: I should say the biggest thing that has been ticking me off (and I tried addressing it directly once) was the aspect of this forum becoming a personal chat room. A few silly threads I can deal with (although I rarely read them) but they have been overflowing as of late.

[Wormsie]

I apologise for starting the three-word story. I had no idea it would last so long...

This is also a brilliant opportunity to mention that you can fullfill your chitti-chatty needs on IRC, such as #adventuregamers at irc.adventuregamers.com (unofficial channel).

Or you could phone a relative or a friend.

[Melanie68]

Originally Posted by Lucien21

I tried posting a thread about it and it descended into one of the mindless drivel threads mentioned above.

I think people need to be whapped upside the head to get a point across sometimes (I know I need it at times ). They probably thought you were just joking instead of being annoyed at the silly threads.

[pinkgothic]

Whilst I appreciate the support for the mods in this (they do an awesome job), I can't say I appreciate being told that (some) of my - or anyone else even vaguely like me's - posts are mindless drivel, or other such implications by the responses here.

I shan't apologise for a word I've written, amongst other things because many of those who are apologising have nothing to apologise for. If it was a mistake, then it was an honest one, as with me. As far as I'm concerned, no one ought to be patronised here, or feel pressured into apologising.

My take: no one that has had good intentions should apologise.

[AFGNCAAP]

Originally Posted by pinkgothic

Whilst I appreciate the support for the mods in this (they do an awesome job), I can't say I appreciate being told that (some) of my - or anyone else even vaguely like me's - posts are mindless drivel, or other such implications by the responses here.

I shan't apologise for a word I've written, amongst other things because many of those who are apologising have nothing to apologise for. If it was a mistake, then it was an honest one, as with me. As far as I'm concerned, no one ought to be patronised here, or feel pressured into apologising.

My take: no one that has had good intentions should apologise.

I, in turn, don't appreciate you implying that anyone is manipulated or pressured into apologizing. Jackal's opening post(s) specifically says it's not about blame or shame. Apologies are not expected from anyone. But if some of the people, having read the guidelines, feel they are sorry, they are allowed to say so, right? And, IMO, regret doesn't necessarily equal admitting that the person had had bad intentions.