[Lucien21]

Vivendi were under no pressure to release these in the first place.

I think for £10 each for multiple games is a bargain. All be it it's not a comprehensive collection, but did you really expect them to commit huge amounts of cash to retool these games in todays market.

Buy them or don't buy them that's entirely up to yourself.

Some of you are going Waaaaaaaaaay over the top in regard to these collections which are just a cheap and easy way for people who either didn't play them origionally or just wanted to replay them for old times sake.

Hardcore fans who want the "ultimate complete collection" will probably pay he high ebuy prices or would already own the original games.

Those people are not the target audience.

[eXo]

Originally Posted by Lucien21

Those people are not the target audience.

I understand that, and I have stated that. I have also made a fairly clear point that the "target audience" is so small that it's ridiculous.

As my previous posts have stated - a non adventure gamer is very unlikely to buy these. Once you take the adventure gaming demographics and separate it into two groups - those who are sierra fans, and those who missed that boat - the demographic gets even smaller.

As a business decision, releasing cheap bargain collections of classic games, while keeping all the bugs intact, and aiming the entire release at people who aren't even waiting for it (the preorder forums on amazon for these was full of diehard fans - not casual people) IS A BAD BUSINESS DECISION.

[Henke]

Originally Posted by eXo

I understand that, and I have stated that. I have also made a fairly clear point that the "target audience" is so small that it's ridiculous.

As my previous posts have stated - a non adventure gamer is very unlikely to buy these. Once you take the adventure gaming demographics and separate it into two groups - those who are sierra fans, and those who missed that boat - the demographic gets even smaller.

As a business decision, releasing cheap bargain collections of classic games, while keeping all the bugs intact, and aiming the entire release at people who aren't even waiting for it (the preorder forums on amazon for these was full of diehard fans - not casual people) IS A BAD BUSINESS DECISION.

I don't think I agree with you there. There are many adventuregamers (just look at this forum) and many of these games are very old so I think very few have played them all.

[eXo]

this forum has less than 100 active people. Even if there were 5000 people - that is still hardly enough to jusify the release of software - it takes that many people to sign a petition just to get a company to put out a limited edition version of a game.

Compare this forum to something like say.. the guitar hero forum, the madden forum, a wrestling game forum... those are INDIVIUDAL games - not even genres, and they have 5 times as many members.

[Dara100]

I couldn't remember whether I had it or not, but just looked and...don't hate me...it's there unopened! Too bad I can't bring myself to sell any of my collection tho'.

[Henke]

Originally Posted by eXo

this forum has less than 100 active people. Even if there were 5000 people - that is still hardly enough to jusify the release of software - it takes that many people to sign a petition just to get a company to put out a limited edition version of a game.

Compare this forum to something like say.. the guitar hero forum, the madden forum, a wrestling game forum... those are INDIVIUDAL games - not even genres, and they have 5 times as many members.

Still there are many people who play adventuregames and especially these games since they are good classics. As you pointed out they just released the games with no updates so I think it's a good decision both for the company and the consumers.

[Hejsa]

Originally Posted by Henke

Still there are many people who play adventuregames and especially these games since they are good classics. As you pointed out they just released the games with no updates so I think it's a good decision both for the company and the consumers.

Yes, even though the adventure game genre is very well suited for a comunity base it still has a large crowd who only cares about playing the games. People who don't even care to have an occasional check at sites like gamespy.com... The few people I know who have very large collections of computer games are people over age 35 who buy games they don't know anything about, they just know that it's an adventure game and it doesn't contain any FPS-like voilence. A box of Gabriel Knight would probably attract people like these who perhaps haven't found out the cult value of the Gabriel Knight series and simply discovers a box of highly praised adventure games. But I still agree, this bunch isn't big enough from a commersial standpoint.

[Daventry]

I have to say I am with Henke on this one. With the state of the adventure game genre being what it is, can we really expect a large company like Vivendi, which is driven by profits just like any other large company, to spend a bunch of money repackaging and distributing collections of games that are on the bottom of their money making radar? There are a lot of people out there who have grown up in the Windows era who might never have had the chance to play these beautiful games if someone at Vivendi hadn't thought there might be a big enough market for these collections that they had a shot at making a few bucks on them. Any time they pay attention to these classics at all it's a good thing. At the very least it gets people talking about them again. I have a few friends who had never seen a Kings Quest game before. Because they saw and messed around with the collection on my PC they at least know what it is now. That's progress, even if it is slight. I was THRILLED with the collections! Was I disappointed that they came in a paper sleeve? Sure, but so what? Would I have liked a grander presentation and spiffier box art? Absolutely, but I can tell you, that will never happen if people don't show these companies that these games can sell. In the end I was happy just to be able to sit and play these games again. I don't think the notion of buying these collections to support the genre is silly. Especially since you are bound to get more than $20 worth of enjoyment out of 7 Kings quest games, 6 Space Quest games or even 4 Police Quest Games. ($5 a pop is not too much for such great games.) In todays day and age it's all about the $$$$. On an end note, I work in the video game industry and I happen to be a fan of adventure games. Last fall I spoke with some of the folks at Vivendi and asked them if we'd ever see a new installment in any of their adventure franchises. They responded by informing me that at their large annual board meeting, the issue of Kings Quest came up. They said that Vivendi believes Kings Quest to be it's strongest "Legacy Franchise" and that they would like to exercise that franchise if they could. They finished by saying "Let's see how the collection sells". When I've spoken with Lucas Arts about a new Monkey Island, they responded by asking me If I knew how well "Psychonauts" was selling. You see? It's all about profit. We are all adventure game fans here, and so I'm assuming we all want to see more adventure games made, so I I think that buying the collections to enjoy them AND to support the genre is great. If more people had the mindset of Henke we would probably have more great adventure games in development right now. Thanks, Take care. Daventry

[eXo]

but as I have stated SO MANY TIMES BEFORE, the profit of these collections does not go to supporting a bigger/better adventure game industry. Go look at sierra/viviendis upcoming release list.

And if they HAD sold extremely well, they would have turned around and churned out a few more collections - but they would not have gone back an resurrected the kq, sq, or pq series in any recognizable form - if anything it would be something more like kq8.. only MORE action.

This argument that supporting any adventure released somehow helps the genre is complete crap. That attitude just screams RAPE ME. Sell me anything adventure game related, take a dump in a box and call it an adventure - just sell it to me.

And besides, saying "Lets see how the collection sells".. that makes absolutely no sense considering THEY SET IT UP FOR FAILURE! The biggest fans of the sierra p&c series ALREADY HAVE THE GAMES. They didn't even include an extra to incentive these fans to own the games. If they really wanted to see the damned for the KQ franchise they simply need to pay attention to the large petition that erupted when the kq9 fan game was shut down, and thousands of gamers came out in support...not by examining the sales of a cheap-ass cash-in geared towards a practically non-existent audience.

SO how in the bloody hell are the sales of that collection AT ALL related to the potential of the KQ franchise? THEY AREN'T. And the mere attempt to associate them is the biggest bunch of smoke and mirrors I have ever seen outside of politics.

[Daventry]

Exo wrote:
"but as I have stated SO MANY TIMES BEFORE, the profit of these collections does not go to supporting a bigger/better adventure game industry. Go look at sierra/viviendis upcoming release list."

And if they HAD sold extremely well, they would have turned around and churned out a few more collections - but they would not have gone back an resurrected the kq, sq, or pq series in any recognizable form - if anything it would be something more like kq8.. only MORE action."

Do you work for Vivendi? How do you know this? I can guarantee you that if any of the collections had been top sellers we would have seen something develop further related to those products. It's through sales that companies like Vivendi gauge public interest.

"This argument that supporting any adventure released somehow helps the genre is complete crap. That attitude just screams RAPE ME. Sell me anything adventure game related, take a dump in a box and call it an adventure - just sell it to me."

Believe me, I know there are a lot of adventure games out there that deserve to be passed over. I am not advocating buying EVERYTHING that has the word "adventure" on it. However, in this instance it is unfortunate that you would esteem a collection of such great games to be equitable to "anything adventure game related" or worse yet "a dump in a box".

"And besides, saying "Lets see how the collection sells".. that makes absolutely no sense considering THEY SET IT UP FOR FAILURE! The biggest fans of the sierra p&c series ALREADY HAVE THE GAMES. They didn't even include an extra to incentive these fans to own the games."

You are right about the bare bones release of the product. It is obvious that Vivendi wasn't targeting the 0.01% of the population that you fall into. That is, people who have every version of every game hanging around regardless of the fact that they don't even work on any modern PC's without messing around with external fan made programs. The average gamer wants to buy the game, take it home, put it in and play it. That's it. To this end I think the collections serve their purpose well.

"If they really wanted to see the damned for the KQ franchise they simply need to pay attention to the large petition that erupted when the kq9 fan game was shut down, and thousands of gamers came out in support...not by examining the sales of a cheap-ass cash-in geared towards a practically non-existent audience."

How do you know they didn't take into account the number of sigs on that petition? Again, do you work for the company? And I think you may be underestimating the number of people who wanted to play these games again when you describe them as a "non-existent audience". Obviously there was an audience there or Vivendi wouldn't have released them in the first place. Again, they are not going to do something they feel isn't going to make them money.

"SO how in the bloody hell are the sales of that collection AT ALL related to the potential of the KQ franchise? THEY AREN'T. And the mere attempt to associate them is the biggest bunch of smoke and mirrors I have ever seen outside of politics."

Let's pretend that the collections sold like crazy. A million copies. More. Are you saying you really believe that someone at Vivendi wouldn't be saying "Hey, people want this stuff. Look at all the money we made. Maybe there's a bigger market for this sort of thing than we thought. Let's do something more with it!" If so, that shows a limited understanding of how the corporate publisher to retail industry works. It's obvious you are a big fan of these games. That's a good thing. I can understand you being hurt at Vivendi's lack of attention toward the fan when they released these collections. You've brought up some good points. However, just because something isn't good for one doesn't mean it isn't good for all. I am a huge fan as well and I happen to love the collections. I like having the games all in one place, I like the inexpensive price tag and I like their ease of use. I am encouraged that there seem to be some people out there who echo my sentiments. I hope to see bigger, better collections (with box art that isn't totally generic and cheap) in the future. Take care!

[Jadefalcon]

You know the sickener? I go to a model club and loaned someone my Gabriel Knight 1 CD version (complete with the graphic novel) and GK2, and they haven't been back for a while.

Another reason I would have liked to have got the proper GK collection is the soundtrack, I like film soundtracks, but I loved the music on GK2.

[Wormsie]

Originally Posted by eXo

First off.. I have to disagree that GK3 was a 'successful' example of a 3d adventure game. The graphics were horrid, the lighting nonexistant, and everything looked very bland. The story was great - but the game would have been much better if it hadn't been forced into that 3d mold.

Sure, it wasn't the latest and greatest Quake III engine, but it was OK and most important of all, the game took advantage of the fact that everything was in 3D - cinematography, expressions on character's faces, puzzles that used the 3D engine, etc.

Second, If you go back and read the thread you'd see that only 3 posts ago I already mentioned the 10 cd requirement.

Hey, you can't own words, daddy!

Considering that gk1 is the only game dosbox could have run, that doesn't equal much of a collection by itself now does it?

Sierra has actually ported GK1 for Windows. I don't remember if GK2 supported Windows from the beginning, but at least the Gabriel Knight Mysteries Pack I have also has GK2 for Windows. Getting those old ports to work in a modern version of Windows might be a bit difficult, though...

Actually the lucas arts archives had full printed manuals - one for each game. I still have all mine.

The LucasArts Entertainment Pack has PDF manuals only.

Somehow the discussion in this thread is very immature bickering and bitching. You in particular eXo, sound rather aggressive with your CAPITAL LETTERS, "that is laughable", "crap", "shit", and so on... cool down, OK?

It's also very strange that when Vivendi (or LucasArts or whoever) releases no adventure games, or no collections of older adventure games they made, fans complain about that. And when they do release a collection, fans still complain.

[CaptainDread]

Originally Posted by Wormsie

It's also very strange that when Vivendi (or LucasArts or whoever) releases no adventure games, or no collections of older adventure games they made, fans complain about that. And when they do release a collection, fans still complain.

If it was done properly, there would be a lot less complaining. Heck, most of us who are complaining are alright with the cheap packaging and the PDF manuals. As I've said, it's just that they've packaged the wrong manuals with some of the games.

If they were to do a repress to fix this error, I'd happily pick up the collections for the games I'm missing.

[Jadefalcon]

I've seen the collections in the shops. I no longer own Police Quest 1 or 4 and never owned the others. Will they work on Win XP?

I'd certainly be tempted by them.

[Daventry]

Yes Jade, the Police Quest Collection does indeed work on Win XP. I just recently picked up the PQ collection the other day myself, (it was the only "Quest" series I missed out on back in the day), and was happy to find out that it worked great! Good luck!

[eXo]

Originally Posted by Wormsie

The LucasArts Entertainment Pack has PDF manuals only.

I am sorry, but your wrong. I have printed manuals for full throttle, sam n max, and indiana jones even though the only way i ever bought those games was through the lucasarts archive.

On a side note, the PQ collection was probably the best of the 4. It did not have the manual errors, it only ommited the ega pq1 (which isn't a huge deal beyond nostalgia), and there were no fatal bugs in any of the games that made any of them unplayable.

[CaptainDread]

Originally Posted by Wormsie

The LucasArts Entertainment Pack has PDF manuals only.

No, Wormsie is correct. He is talking about the UK release.

I've got the Day of the Tentacle/Sam & Max 2-pack, and there are indeed only PDF manuals on the disc.

[Gonchi]

Originally Posted by CaptainDread

No, Wormsie is correct. He is talking about the UK release.

I've got the Day of the Tentacle/Sam & Max 2-pack, and there are indeed only PDF manuals on the disc.

I think everyone's talking about different things. I'll try and clear things up.

Exo was replying to Akane_t's mention of LucasArts Archives series, which generally refers to these, not having printed manuals. I own them and I can corroborate that they do come with printed manuals.

The LucasArts Classic: Entertainment Pack that Wormsie mentioned is a different compilation of LucasArts games (from the LucasArts Classic line) and is not part of the Archives series, while the two-pack you mention belongs to the LucasArts Classic line but is a different release to the Entertainment Pack (which I think it predates).

I've always considered The LucasArts Archives (Vol.1 to 4) to be comparable to the Sierra Collections (QfG Anthology, Larry's Greatest Hits and Misses, etc.), where as the LucasArts Classic line is (was?) like the SierraOriginals releases (they also didn't include manuals, not even .txt files of them).

Hope that clears things up somewhat. Carry on.

[Wormsie]

Originally Posted by eXo

I am sorry, but your wrong. I have printed manuals for full throttle, sam n max, and indiana jones even though the only way i ever bought those games was through the lucasarts archive.

Note that I said "Entertainment Pack", not "Archive". They are two different things.

As far as I know, the LucasArts Archives are no longer sold anywhere except eBay. The Entertainment Pack is the newer incarnation and it was still for sale a while ago. I have a LucasArts Entertaiment Pack right here and it has a slip of paper proclaiming that the manuals are on the CD. My point was that even though LucasArts had a good "LucasArts Archives" collection way back when adventure games were still slightly more popular and there probably were some adventure game lovers working at LEC, the new collection doesn't contain manuals. Though I must say that the games are ported to Windows very nicely (without the need for DosBox or ScummVM).

[eXo]

Well - I originally said the lucasarts archives, so whats the point of coming back and telling me that the entertainment pack doesn't have them? I didn't mention the entertainment pack, didn't even know it existed... so telling me it didn't have manuals doesn't really seem to make much sense in the context of my point.

Anyways, thanks for clearing everything up Gonchi.