[Henke]

Originally Posted by eXo

So again - it's not an accurate represenation of the entire consumer base.

But I believe that game publishers are mostly interested in what type of computers gamers have.

[eXo]

we are talking about viviendi here....

if they gave a rats ass about gamers they wouldn't have put out those piss poor "collections".

Those were meant to cash in on:

a: ignorant consumers
b: rabids fans who must own all sierra stuff

I was guilty of being both of those when i preordered all 4 collections from amazon 2 years before they were released.

It never occured to me that the sets would be cheap cash-ins.

Besdies - those collections sold very poorly. It's going to take ample consumption of the waters of Lethe to make the suits at vivendi forget enough of that fiasco to try again with another set.

For the record:

The previous compilations were:

1. outsourced
2. a hidge podge of versions
3. lacking original versions of ega games
4. lacking voice
5. forced to run very INEFFICIENTLY in dosbox 0.65 until Collector made patches
6. included paper sleeves
7. pdf 80 page manuals which the install suggests you print out
8. mismatched manuals with game versions (forget using the manual to get through the lsl2 copy protection)
9. completely missing games (like lsl7)
10. seriously - the list goes on.

now ask yourself - is this a company that is mostly interested in computer gamers?

[Henke]

You have to play them in Dosbox? The requierements I've read plainly said "Win 98SE/ME/2000/XP"?

[eXo]

it does a quiet install of dosbox then creates shortcuts that automatically launches dosbox with the game.

Thats why no windows versions of the games were released (like kq6 win - which was much better looking) and why lsl7 wasn't included 9there never was a dos version)

Average user has no idea it's being used as an emulator.

[Henke]

That sounds pretty bad, but the games do work okay, or?

[eXo]

depends on the collection.

For example, they left fatal bugs in kq7 by putting version 1.1 on the disk instead of 2.0. This means a firecracker timing bug in the land of oogie boogie will cause you to always blow up. Some people get around it by taking 1 or 2 steps before they die, continuing, taking 2 more steps, etc.. until reaching the goal. But seriously - going through all that is crap.

Collector (not a vivendi employee) created a patch which knocks the game up to version 2, eliminates the bug, and optimizes performance in dosbox.

All the original ega versions (kq1, sq1, lsl1, and pq1) were left out and exchanged with the later vga remakes.

basically, the games have all inherent bugs they had at their first release.

No code was changed at all.

There was also significant slowdown and timer issues when using the dosbox 0.65 out of the box with the collections on a few games - again, collectors patches and installation of dosbox 0.70 fixes these.

Not having printed documentation makes it hell to get through games like kq3, where constant reference is needed (or kq6 for that matter).

Point being - these were horrible releases meant to be quick cash-ins. Any fan is better of going out and hunting down a copy of the late 90's collections. These had printed documentation, extra videos, demos, games (like lsl pinball, kq cards, etc), and interviews.

[akane_t]

Originally Posted by Henke

That sounds pretty bad, but the games do work okay, or?

Games work fine. I have personally tried SQ, KQ, and LSL collection on Win XP and all of the included games run without significant issues. DOSBox is installed and the games do run in DosBox but because of the interface built in the collection, the game runs as if you are installing/running a windows game.

I understand where eXo's coming from but if you haven't played some or all of the games in the collections and want to try them out, the collections are an absolute no-brainer. They are cheap and the DOSBox interface has been wonderfully implemented. For those who missed out on some of the games in the collection and want to experience them without spending a ton of money and bothering with figuring out how to install and run DOSBox on your own, the collections are a wonderful bargain.

[eXo]

you can get original copies on ebay for $3.

6 kq games at approx. 3 bucks a pop = $18

Thats still cheaper than this mess.

It's even cheaper with the 4 pq games.

Yes, I know that shipping costs extra if the same seller doesnt have them all, but even the previous compilations range around 20 (except for the lsl pleasure pack).

Anyways - these are not bad for casual gamers who have no attachment at all the the series. Although - thats a fairly small portion of the gaming population isn't it?

a: has to be an advanture fan
b: has to be willing to play old parsar based games
c: has to have interest in sierra games

Now, subtract all the people who are already adventure gamers that are fans of sierra games and have either played them before or already own previous compilations... and hell, your not left with much of a sales base.

[Gonchi]

Originally Posted by eXo

it does a quiet install of dosbox then creates shortcuts that automatically launches dosbox with the game.

Thats why no windows versions of the games were released (like kq6 win - which was much better looking) and why lsl7 wasn't included (there never was a dos version)

Average user has no idea it's being used as an emulator.

Are you sure? I'm fairly certain LSL7 gave me the option to install the Windows or DOS version.

[eXo]

your right, there was a dos version.... so now they have absolutely no excuse for not including it beyond having to burn a second cd.

[QFG]

I'm sure whatever department put these together knew that people buying these collections had absolutely no clout of any kind, and that they could get away with anything.

Asses.

[akane_t]

I don't get it. I thought people would be more receptive to Vivendy issuing the collections. They do have flaws but at least, the AGs in the Sierra collection are getting some exposure and if you ask me, that's a good thing. I loved getting the SQ collection because the only SQ game that I have played previously was SQ5.

Didn't the Lucas Arts Archive series also lack any extras or printed manuals? It did have a nice box but if I'm remembering correctly, they were barebone collection as well. I've never played any LA AGs before the LA Archive collection with S&M, DOTT, IJatFoA came out. I got the collection as soon as it came out and rushed to play the games that I have heard so much about. I didn't care that it was barebone at all. I absolutely loved it. And that was when the AGs still had some muscle.

I thought the Sierra collection would receive similar response. I guess I was wrong.

[eXo]

Actually the lucas arts archives had full printed manuals - one for each game. I still have all mine.

As far as them getting more exposure.... again, I'll say it one more time - the people who bought these were either

A: HUEG FANS

B: clueless consumers who really didn't know what they were buying, and probably turned it off/resold it as soon as they saw the graphics.

I'm not denying that one or two fans may have joined the fold due to these, but had their main target been the actual fans of the series they would have sold tons more, while STILL potentially bringing in new gamers.

I would have galdley paid 40, maybe even 50, if they had full printed manuals/replicas, every version of every game (ie: a TRUE collection), proper disc storage (not these piece of crap paper sleeves).

After all - anyone who has been an ag fan since the original days knows that part of the fun was opening the box and seeing what was inside. Sometimes maps, gameboards (like conquests of the longbow), mini-novels, manuals, storybooks, all sorts of fun things.

Opening a box to find a disc in a paper sleeve... well, that really sucks.

As far as the people, like yourself, who never played any of the games in the series. Iheard the same response from every one of them.

"Screw this - Im not paying 20 bucks for a dosbox game with copy protection and no viable manual. 'm just gonna go download the game instead"

They DROVE people to abandonware sites.

[CaptainDread]

Originally Posted by eXo

"Screw this - Im not paying 20 bucks for a dosbox game with copy protection and no viable manual. 'm just gonna go download the game instead"

They DROVE people to abandonware sites.

Or drove people to eBay looking for the old collections, such as me. I've never been a big fan of Sierra, but that's changing now. I'm playing through all of their games for the first time. But due to the complaints that I've heard I decided to not buy the new Vivendi Universal collections. I've picked up Roberta Williams Anthology, Collection Series: Space Quest, and Collection Series: Police Quest.

[eXo]

great selections. If you ever see a copy at a reasonable price I also highly recommend the Leisure Suit Larry Pleasure Pack. Its the only pack with all 6 games (ie, lsl1, 2, 3, 5, 6, and 7).

Did your PQ Collection that you found have all 4 PQ games and Swat 1? I seem to remember a collection like that at one point.

[akane_t]

These sets weren't supposed to be a comprehensive collectible for fans. We knew months in advance, because they were listed in Amazon for a long time at $19.99 each, that they were going to be cheap sets designed to expose them to as many gamers as possible (and of course make as much money as possible for Vivendy).

Your average gamers will not pay 40, 50 bucks for a set of old games just because they have a nice box, printed manuals, and some extra collectibles. She might give it a look if the set is cheap enough. The same goes for AG fans who only tried LA or Legend games and would like to give the Sierra games that they have heard so much about a try. These people are once again not going to pay 50 bucks on a set just because it has nice extras.

I thought that for a cheaply produced collections of old games, they sold relatively well initially. At least, I remember getting somewhat encouraged by the sales rank at Amazon.

I fully understand why some fans of AGs were disappointed with the collections as they were as barebone as they can get but I still wanted them to sell well. As a long-time fan of AGs, I thought at the time that the collection of venerable AGs doing well can only help me in the long term. I still think the same today.

[akane_t]

Originally Posted by CaptainDread

Or drove people to eBay looking for the old collections, such as me. I've never been a big fan of Sierra, but that's changing now. I'm playing through all of their games for the first time. But due to the complaints that I've heard I decided to not buy the new Vivendi Universal collections. I've picked up Roberta Williams Anthology, Collection Series: Space Quest, and Collection Series: Police Quest.

The cheapest Roberta Williams Anthology listed at eBay currently is $49.95 plus shipping and you only get CDs in jewel case nothing else. No box, no manuals. Nothing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Roberta-Will...QQcmdZViewItem

For a complete set with all the nice extras, you have to pay more than $100. On top of paying that much, you still have to worry about setting up DOSBox yourself to get the games to run.

Unless you are a dedicated fan, you are not going to pay that much and go through the hassle of trying to have the games run on your own. For someone who just want to play the game, the newer collection makes much better sense.

I sometimes wish that AG fans would support the genre more. I thought that the new collections doing well might cause more capital infusion into the genre in long term which means more and better AGs for me to play. I bought the KQ collection even though I played all of the games collected in the set just for that reason. Kinf od silly, I know, since one more set of KQ collection would hardly make any difference but I guess I'm a sort of a romantic that way.

[eXo]

He said he already picked it up. Besides, he could have easily chose to get the kings quest collection which is much cheaper than the roberta williams collection. It commonly goes for under 20 and has extra material on the discs.

As far as supporting these to help the genre - that is laughable.

You want potential new customers to think that actual genre fans support a piece of crap rushed out the door, buggy, lackluster collection? They'll never touch an ag again if they think we actually support that kind of consumer raping.

The capital made by those games would NOT go to new games... seriously - d you want leisure suit larry magna cum laude 2?

Wake up and realize that vivendi does not care about you. They do not care about ag's, their fans, or the legacy of the games they now have rights too.

All they care about is, "If we release a game for 20 bucks, how cheap can we produce it to make the most money possible."

Any money made by those games is now going to be invested in yet another cheap crash bandicoot cash in (yet another legacy they ruined) or the recently announced remake of Butcher Bay.

[CaptainDread]

Originally Posted by akane_t

I sometimes wish that AG fans would support the genre more. I thought that the new collections doing well might cause more capital infusion into the genre in long term which means more and better AGs for me to play. I bought the KQ collection even though I played all of the games collected in the set just for that reason. Kinf od silly, I know, since one more set of KQ collection would hardly make any difference but I guess I'm a sort of a romantic that way.

The biggest problem I have with Vivendi Universal's new collections is that sometimes the manuals on the PDF files on the disc come from a completely different version of the game.

I probably would have picked the collections up if they were done properly, but when you're dealing with games from the copy-protection within the game era, erroneous manuals are a definite turnoff.

[CaptainDread]

Originally Posted by eXo

great selections. If you ever see a copy at a reasonable price I also highly recommend the Leisure Suit Larry Pleasure Pack. Its the only pack with all 6 games (ie, lsl1, 2, 3, 5, 6, and 7).

I'm thinking about picking up Collection Series: Leisure Suit Larry as it's got the first six games and a 300 page book.

Originally Posted by eXo

Did your PQ Collection that you found have all 4 PQ games and Swat 1? I seem to remember a collection like that at one point.

Yeah. That's the one I have. It's the one here: http://www.mobygames.com/game/police...lection-series