[tsa]

You know what? All your points are valid (well almost all your points), and still... I absolutely loved the game.

[Shoal]

Originally Posted by noknowncure

I despised Dreamfall.

Yeah, the fighting and sneaking were terrible and the puzzles could be argued as overly simple. And yeah, Kian seems to change his mind awfully fast and the "love" between Zoë and "the Irish chap" seemed contrived. And yeah, Arcadia is your standard, cliché fantasy world. And yeah, the "science vs. magic" thing really doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you really sit back and think about it (and is also rather cliché). And yeah, it would be ridiculously easy for the game to be used as feminist propaganda (trust me, make an honest side-by-side comparison of the males in the game with all the females). And yeah, the ending was a total bummer.

But here's what the game did extremely well, and what made me absolutely love it to death (in no particular order):

1) The whole game feels... warm. I can't really explain it. You know that feeling you get when you're camping, and the night air is chilly and then you shuffle up next to a warm, inviting fire? That's what I feel whenever I play Dreamfall. I know this is a very vague statement, but I can't really explain it.
2) Except in Chapter 3: 201 (and even not much there), there's absolutely no uncomfortable intensity in the game. Dreamfall is, to put it bluntly, totally non-threatening. Even in its fighting and sneaking I feel a sense of calm serenity.
3) Clever humor abounds in every area of the game and in most characters. The humor only adds to the "warmth" of the game and it's sense of calm serenity. If you allow it to, it can also make it very easy to forget how cliché Arcadia really is.
4) All the character interaction (outside of development) was fabulous and backed up by absolutely top-notch voice acting. Sure, the character development may have been a bit weird, but for me the quality of the actual conversations and the verbosity of their presentation made it easy to forget the plot oddities and just enjoy the characters in the moment.
5) Also helping one forget the cliché that is Arcadia itself is the overall story of the Balance. As far as I know, that's not a plot device which shows up very often.
6) The bright, vibrant colors also really helped my enjoyment of the game. You just don't see many games with bright, vibrant colors anymore.
7) Chapter 11: Faith and Chapter 13: The Longest Journey. 'Nuff said, in my opinion.
8) Dreamfall is short and easy. I know most people despise short and easy, but I love me my short and easy -- especially when it's combined with all this other stuff!

A summary would be:
- the warmth
- the serenity
- the humor
- the character interaction
- the overall originality
- the color palette
- the events of a few end-game chapters
- the length and difficulty

To like Dreamfall is to have the ability to compromise. Granted, it's much easier to compromise when you're bargaining for incredibly rare things... and Dreamfall, for me, was full of stuff like that. Just look at the above list and give me a list of games released since 2000 which carry some of these as features, let alone all of them.

Lastly, an argument could be made that the storyline was, in fact, tied up. Look at what got Zoë up and running in the beginning: finding Reza, discovering the identity of April and then saving her, and determining the identity of the little girl. All those plot threads -- the threads that began the game and served as Zoë's core motivations throughout, were in fact resolved. An extra thread was resolved as well: the discovery of the Static's source and its ceasing.

What the game ended on what your classic cliffhanger. Personally, I don't think the cliffhanger was any larger in Dreamfall than in most other stories setup for a sequel. And what are these plot holes of which you speak? There may indeed be some, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

[carlotta von uberwald]

Dreamfall:

Spoiler:

I loved dreamfall beautiful graphics but the little girl saying save April Ryan was pointless in the end she dies no matter what u do! how can that be saving her???

Runaway 2 Dream of the turtle - the end was spirit crushing well no end actually it was like NOOOOOOOOO! To be Continued???? do they not realise a game needs and ending!

[Shoal]

Originally Posted by carlotta von uberwald

Dreamfall:

Spoiler:

I loved dreamfall beautiful graphics but the little girl saying save April Ryan was pointless in the end she dies no matter what u do! how can that be saving her???

Spoiler:

She was already dead; it's as simple as that. As a ghost she was in pain. By convincing her to die fully, as is only natural, you ended her pain and misery by allowing her to move on to a better place. Death isn't the end.

[Hysteria]

I think carlotta von uberwald was talking about April Ryan, right?

[cwapitm]

Originally Posted by Shoal

Spoiler:

She was already dead; it's as simple as that. As a ghost she was in pain. By convincing her to die fully, as is only natural, you ended her pain and misery by allowing her to move on to a better place. Death isn't the end.

Spoiler:

There's still a chance that April could be alive.

[Shoal]

Spoiler:

Aah, wait, yeah, I mistook the message on April and thought it was about Faith. D'oh. Sorry.

[Hysteria]

Yeah..Wait, haha, that's not spoiler.

Spoiler:

If that girl who haunted Zoe told that April is alive, then she is. And remeber the first part when she actually had something that alow her to breath under the water.

[noknowncure]

It's great you enjoy it, I just get cross about it. I'll try to explain my points - but politely, as you were good enough to be extremely polite about what is, essentially, my nasty little explosion of bitterness. I’m not trying to change your mind, I just feel I should explain my position.

Anyhow...

Originally Posted by Shoal

1) The whole game feels... warm. I can't really explain it. You know that feeling you get when you're camping, and the night air is chilly and then you shuffle up next to a warm, inviting fire? That's what I feel whenever I play Dreamfall. I know this is a very vague statement, but I can't really explain it.

At the start, I felt like that too. As I mentioned, I really enjoyed The Longest Journey, and as a result had been looking forward to Dreamfall. When the game started and the characters started to get introduced, I relished the fact that a whole new story lay before me.

Originally Posted by Shoal

2) Except in Chapter 3: 201 (and even not much there), there's absolutely no uncomfortable intensity in the game. Dreamfall is, to put it bluntly, totally non-threatening. Even in its fighting and sneaking I feel a sense of calm serenity.

I've not played the game since its release, but if chapter 3 was the return to the derelict Guest House; That part was genuinely interesting, sinister and unnerving.

Originally Posted by Shoal

3) Clever humor abounds in every area of the game and in most characters. The humor only adds to the "warmth" of the game and it's sense of calm serenity. If you allow it to, it can also make it very easy to forget how cliché Arcadia really is

Having enjoyed the previous game, my gripe wasn't with Arcadia as an idea, more the fact that many of the elements of the game as a whole, were derivative. There were hefty portions of such films as The Lord of the Rings - the things in the cavern are just Cave Trolls aren't they - Ring, A.I, and the Matrix. People tend to say things like; "But Ragnar admits he's a creative magpie. He acknowledges his influences." But that's no excuse. If I punched a someone in the face and then admitted I'd done it, I'd still be in the wrong.

Originally Posted by Shoal

4) All the character interaction (outside of development) was fabulous and backed up by absolutely top-notch voice acting. Sure, the character development may have been a bit weird, but for me the quality of the actual conversations and the verbosity of their presentation made it easy to forget the plot oddities and just enjoy the characters in the moment.

I thought the voice acting was so-so, providing you wanted 90% of the characters to be inexplicably Irish. The leads were, on the whole, good, but some of the supporting cast were a bit ropey. The acting wasn’t a main flaw though.

Originally Posted by Shoal

5) Also helping one forget the cliché that is Arcadia itself is the overall story of the Balance. As far as I know, that's not a plot device which shows up very often.

Well, balance was a continuation of the main theme from The Longest Journey. I’d say that Dreamfall’s central theme was Faith. Kian follows his faith blindly, eventually learning - rather quicker than seems plausible - the flaws that this can cause. At the opposite end of the spectrum is April, who has lost her faith and finally, somewhere in between the other two Zoë, who is trying to find faith - literally. It was the heavy handedness of the Faith storyline that annoyed me. It reeked of arrogance; but my thoughts on that are documented elsewhere on this site.

The character development really annoyed me. When we first meet Kian - for example - his entire plot arc is told to us almost immediately. The bizarrely Scottish trainer chap says something along the lines of: “You follow your beliefs unquestioningly, but over the course of this computer game you’ll see the error of your ways.”

Sorry, I’m tired now. Must sleep. I’ll carry on moaning if I can remember.

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

Originally Posted by tsa

You know what? All your points are valid (well almost all your points), and still... I absolutely loved the game [Dreamfall].

Me too.

[Shoal]

Originally Posted by noknowncure

It's great you enjoy it, I just get cross about it. I'll try to explain my points - but politely, as you were good enough to be extremely polite about what is, essentially, my nasty little explosion of bitterness. I’m not trying to change your mind, I just feel I should explain my position.

Well, as has been said, you make valid points. I guess they just didn't bother me as much as they bothered you. I thought the whole "everyone is Irish" thing was kinda funny.

As for faith, well... I can understand why you might consider that whole theme to be arrogant. But just because I understand doesn't mean I agree. I'm extremely happy whenever a mainstream film, TV show or game has a central theme focusing on the importance of faith. It doesn't happen very often, so I always consider it a time for celebration when it occurs.

But in the end I guess it's all a matter of expectations. No one game can please everyone. I'm just happy that every once in a great long while a game comes along that pleases me for once, instead of other people.

[vivasawadee]

I agree with Shoal, despite its many faults Dreamfall is a great game that won me over with its wonderful style and faultless presentation (didn't even need a patch!)

It also helps to play the game on a widescreen LCD with surround sound speakers and a PS2 gamepad whilst sitting in a nice big comfy La-Z-boy recliner and a big mug of hot cocoa with big chunks of marshmallows

[Shoal]

Originally Posted by vivasawadee

It also helps to play [Dreamfall with] a PS2 gamepad...

I totally agree. I can't imagine playing Dreamfall without a gamepad. I used a Nyko AirFlow EX.

[sand maester]

Hmmm.... the only game that I can really think of that flopped (somewhat) to me was Escape from Monkey Island. This series had SO MUCH potential... than they sort of just... threw it away almost with this game. I mean the controls... it was like a bad version of Grim Fandango's, even though that game managed to pull it off perfectly. And the graphics were well done but I think if they had of stayed with the same 2D type of CMI it would of been so much better. Plus the script (only some of it). It seemed LucasArts was milking this games jokes for all they were worth... like they tried too hard to make you laugh. Besides all of that, the game was a good one. It was Monkey Island, so its forgiven.

Why does everyone say Indigo Prophecy was a bad game? I loved it. It was so unique and fun. Yes, I know, it sort of sucked towards the ending, but it was such a good game.

[Shoal]

Originally Posted by sand maester

Why does everyone say Indigo Prophecy was a bad game? I loved it. It was so unique and fun. Yes, I know, it sort of sucked towards the ending, but it was such a good game.

I don't know about everyone else, but I never said Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy was a bad game. Like you, I just claimed it "sort of sucked towards the ending..."

[rodin]

I never finished Myst 4, what was it called again? There is this puzzle where you have to trap a tigerlike creature by turning a set of three wheels!! I have no problem with mouse activity but this was terrible! you have to turn those wheels in the direct order and in a specific timeframe. I just lost it...i got to a point where I just had to smash my keyboard. Stupid ofcourse. Let's see...there also is Broken sword 4. What a turnoff that turned out to be. I LOVED part 3, but this went nowhere. Absolutely no pace in the game, I missed Nico, puzzle mayhem, the controlls and camera movement where horrific and the humor ( unlike BS 3 ) more than absent.

A tip btw for people who didnt finish Myst. Try the enhanced version Real Myst! This one is much more enjoyable than the original one.

R

[Risingson]

Originally Posted by Shoal

I don't know about everyone else, but I never said Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy was a bad game. Like you, I just claimed it "sort of sucked towards the ending..."

Well... is it a game? It's somewhat fun, but... a game?

[Shoal]

Originally Posted by Risingson

Well... is it a game? It's somewhat fun, but... a game?

Uh, I'm feeling a bit stupid here, but I don't quite follow you. Yes... it's a game. Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy is indeed a game. I'm totally confused as to what you're getting at.

[Risingson]

I feel no challenge with "Farenheit", that's what I'm referring to. It is a game as "Dragon's Lair" was a game.

[Heleo]

Return to Mysterious Island is a game that I absolutely adored when I played the demo. I loved the idea of starting off on a deserted island, uncovering a mystery there whilst doing your best to survive off the land. I loved that there were so many different things you could do with the objects you picked up and a variety of ways in which you could get the food you needed to survive. I wanted to build a shelter, I wanted more of the survival aspects of the game. I wanted to live off of the land like the Swiss Family Robinson. I didn't want

Spoiler:

giant flying robots with laser beams which I had to shoot

. I really, really didn't want them. They ruined the game for me. They just didn't make sense. The ending was pretty pathetic too.