[cardician]

Sorry for the long post, but I was wondering if anyone has played this yet? I got it Friday night and started playing it Saturday, and I have to say, its perhaps one of the worst examples of a buggy flawed game that I've seen in a long time. It's too bad too, because if it weren't for the issues, it would be a pretty good game. I was just curious if anyone else has played it and experienced any of the issues.

First, the pathfinding in the game is utterly horrific. Numerous times I'll arrive at a screen, click to have Goren go somewhere, and he'll walk in the wrong direction and get stuck. In fact, one time it was an almost open room. I clicked down and he walked up to the top of the screen and continued in the walking animation. No matter where I click he will not stop or walk in the correct direction. The absolute only way to get him to go where I need him to go is by re-entering the screen using the map. I would do this dozens of times until finally he'd go where I clicked. Then I finally tried first clicking in the direction he went, which was the wrong direction, and that seemed to cure him of his ridiculous terrible pathfinding loop he was stuck on.

Second, everytime you click somewhere there is a very noticeable pause before Goren moves, and a number of times I've actually seen a flash where he sticks his arms completely straight out forming a T. Having done some 3d modeling, I know this is the starting position for human models, and I find it disgusting that somehow the game reverts to putting him in this position quickly before having him move.

Also, the save system is just plain stupid. You can't delete saves, and it doesn't save over pre-existing saves with the same name. So as it is, I currently have 30 saves called 'ASDF'. Fortunately they're in chronological order and they use a picture of the scene you were at when you saved it. So I always just load the last save. But I have to scroll through five pages of saves in order to get there. What purpose does that serve? Seriously, they have some really boneheaded programmers there.

Then I have to say, one of the key things they hyped about this game I find to be one of the biggest disappointments and most pointless aspects to it. When conversing with someone, you are presented with a list of topics and after selecting one you receive three different moods that you can ask the question in. Confrontational, deceptive, flattering, straightforward, empathatic, etc. But in the end, it serves no purpose at all other than making you ask the same question at most three times until you find the one the person will respond to. They say its supposed to be logical which one to use, but really it doesn't play out that way at all. Once I asked a person straightforward if she still had a receipt. She said no she didn't. Then I asked her flatteringly if she still had the receipt and she said she did. I mean c'mon! Sure, that may seem ok, but when you play the game it eventually just gets to be monotonous and often the mood you think you should use ends up not being the correct one.

And they offer you a criminal profiler in the game too, through a laptop on Goren's desk. Another pointless aspect. It serves no purpose in the game. You just enter all your evidence into it until you have a 'Very Strong' case. Then you submit witnesses to it to see the probability. Once you find one with a high probability match, if its the right person, the Chief will then let you obtain a search warrant. It just really serves no purpose at all and I don't understand why they wasted effort coding it.

Anyway, I just thought I'd go ahead and gripe on the game and see if anyone else had thoughts of their own yet. I was shocked the game was even available yet since everywhere it says that its not until November. But you can obtain it from their website already. So if they fix some of the terrible bugs that I've experienced, I think it would be a decent game. The graphics are nothing special. Very pixellated and jaggy. And during all the in-game cutscenes the entire screen flashes black pretty frequently. The terrible graphics are their doing, but the flashing could be my video card. Though I think that it is still an issue due to a programming error. So I'm afraid that these issues would drop any rating I'd give this game significantly. Plus, some of the older Law & Order games just looked better. Which is pretty pathetic honestly.

[spdiscus]

You've actually made it further into the muck than many of us.

http://forums.adventuregamers.com/showthread.php?t=11393

[Dasilva]

I wish people who make crappy games like this make it freeware, because if they charge the price of a regular game for this product? I'd rather get something else.

[cardician]

Originally Posted by spdiscus

You've actually made it further into the muck than many of us.

http://forums.adventuregamers.com/showthread.php?t=11393

Oh, sorry. I looked through the first 3 pages of topics and didn't see a posting on Criminal Intent. Didn't mean to rehash what others had already commented on quite extensively . Thanks for pointing me to the link.

[Dale Baldwin]

Originally Posted by cardician

Oh, sorry. I looked through the first 3 pages of topics and didn't see a posting on Criminal Intent. Didn't mean to rehash what others had already commented on quite extensively . Thanks for pointing me to the link.

If anything, your post makes sure that we know the demo bugs are still apparent in the full version.

Not a good sign.

[fov]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

I wish people who make crappy games like this make it freeware, because if they charge the price of a regular game for this product? I'd rather get something else.

I'm sure you're joking about this, too?

Cardician, sorry to hear you're having such a hard time with the game. I haven't played it, so I can't respond to your specific points, but just have a comment on the criminal profiler - it makes sense to me that you'd have to build a strong case before you get a warrant. You can't just get a warrant for someone without having a sufficient reason to do so. Did you play the other Law & Order games? If so, did you prefer their method of obtaining a warrant?

[Dasilva]

Fov:

Seriously, this game uses pre rendered graphics, we are in the year 2005, these type of (pre-rendered) graphics are equal to graphics in 1999. They could either come up with a unique style or use TODAYS technology, even some free engines do a better job than that.

[cardician]

Originally Posted by fov

I'm sure you're joking about this, too?

Cardician, sorry to hear you're having such a hard time with the game. I haven't played it, so I can't respond to your specific points, but just have a comment on the criminal profiler - it makes sense to me that you'd have to build a strong case before you get a warrant. You can't just get a warrant for someone without having a sufficient reason to do so. Did you play the other Law & Order games? If so, did you prefer their method of obtaining a warrant?

Yeah, I played the previous Law & Order game where a tennis player was murdered. Not only did it have better graphics but the rest was a bit better too. As for the criminal profiler, sure the *idea* is good. My point is that it serves no actual purpose in the game. It doesn't help the player out at all, because you'll figure out who the murderer is without it. So what purpose does it provide? You obtain a warrant by finding evidence that points to one of the characters in the game. You honestly don't need it at all. The only reason you ever have to touch it is because, with all the evidence clearly showing who the person is you need a warrant for, the game itself is programmed to not let you get it until you run the stuff through the profiler. Even though, you already know who it is and the evidence clearly shows it. If you already know who it is, then shouldn't Goren, who I'm guessing is pretty smart, have figured it out too? Why the hell does he need some sort of computer program to tell him he's probably right. Especially considering no program like this exists. They should have just stuck with a psychiatrist character in the game.

I just think its sad because they hyped it but it really is pointless. Yes, I honestly think the previous game was better using a psychiatrist instead. Makes more sense then having some supposed computer analyze things and tell you what you already know. Just my opinion of course. And of course the previous game is more realistic. You obtain evidence that provides sufficient proof for a warrant. This game, you do that too, but before you're allowed to get the warrant with the proof, you have to have the computer tell you it agrees with you by giving you a high probability for the suspect you already know is guilty. It's just retarded and it doens't provide any of the insight into the bad guy like the claimed in the interview. In fact, after reading the interview posted on the adventure gamers site, I have to say I feel like those two are either stupid, or completely lying. The problems are very obvious to anyone who even looks at the game for a brief amount of time. If this is how the lady wrote the story, then I can see why she moved on because she must not be very good at it.

Of course, the real problem is with all the bugs. I never played the demo but I guarantee they are still in the final app. I've talked with many others who've played the final game and say the same thing. Only apparently many others are also receive total grame crashes. At least that hasn't happened to me.

[fov]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Seriously, this game uses pre rendered graphics, we are in the year 2005, these type of (pre-rendered) graphics are equal to graphics in 1999. They could either come up with a unique style or use TODAYS technology, even some free engines do a better job than that.

Okay, but that's not what you were saying above. You were suggesting Legacy should be giving the game away for free, which we all know is not only unreasonable, but would put them out of business.

Cardician - my understanding of the criminal profiler (based on what we heard from Legacy at E3) is that it is intended to simplify the warrant process. A lot of people (myself included) had a very hard time coming up with exactly the right evidence to get a warrant in Justice Is Served, and Legacy was trying to address players' complaints by using a different interface this time. Sounds like it isn't entirely successful, which is too bad, but I do give them props for actually trying to improve upon what a lot of people considered a flaw in the previous game.

[Dasilva]

...it would put them out of business.

Is that a bad thing?

[cardician]

Originally Posted by fov

Cardician - my understanding of the criminal profiler (based on what we heard from Legacy at E3) is that it is intended to simplify the warrant process. A lot of people (myself included) had a very hard time coming up with exactly the right evidence to get a warrant in Justice Is Served, and Legacy was trying to address players' complaints by using a different interface this time. Sounds like it isn't entirely successful, which is too bad, but I do give them props for actually trying to improve upon what a lot of people considered a flaw in the previous game.

Ok, I can comment on this having played the previous one. I did not realize this fact. First, I agree, in the previous game it was definitely hard as anything to figure out *exactly* what evidence to submit for the warrant. The thing is, obtaining a warrant doesn't even work that way in this game. Once you've obtained all the necessary evidence, all you do is talk to the captain and he'll give you one. That's it. As for the criminal profiler, all you do there is literally submit everything in your inventory and hit analyze. Wait a few seconds and then it either tells you that the piece of data is irrelevant or it gives you some psychological description of the object. Like a cigarette stub will evaluate to evidence that the killer was nervous due to chain smoking. That's great. That means what to me? Especially considering I already know its Mr. X that killed the person and have the evidence to prove it? Since all I have to do is talk to the captain, what purpose does it serve.

Seriously, thanks to your explanation I now understand where they were coming from. But really all the profiler does is come across as an unecessary step that they want you to take because it sheds some psychological info on the killer. I think this is because this particular Law & Order show must be more psychologically based? I don't know because I've never seen it. But really, you don't need to know any of that and it really doesn't play into the game at all. The game is identical the the last game in that you find evidence, it leads you somewhere, and you keep going until you have proof of who killed the person. The psychological aspect, other than this profiler, does not come into play at all. It's not like knowing that the perp is nervous actually plays into the game at all. So what purpose does it serve? That's my biggest gripe with that aspect of the game. While now I get what they were going for, it really only ends up feeling like a useless and unecessary step the developers added in for no real reason or added value. As you said, its too bad. Though really until some patches are released, the whole game is just one "too bad" after another.

And while I wouldn't have originally thought this company should go out of business, this game is a huge example of what is wrong with today's game industry on the PCs. Release it now and patch it later. Ridiculous.

[Orange Brat]

Seriously, this game uses pre rendered graphics, we are in the year 2005, these type of (pre-rendered) graphics are equal to graphics in 1999. They could either come up with a unique style or use TODAYS technology, even some free engines do a better job than that.

Almost every adv. game on the market uses prerendered graphics. This is no different than any other 2.5D game only that its production values are shoddy. It looks 1999 because of that...not because it uses prerenders. It has nothing to do with the engine...a different one isn't going to display a background plate any better or worse, but the style they used is atrocious, so we get a nice muddy, low res mess of a background. And, I wouldn't call the use of prerenders, "yesterday's" technology nor realtime "today's". Realtime is nothing new, and prerenders have plenty of room in modern experiences.

[Dasilva]

Originally Posted by Orange Brat

Almost every adv. game on the market uses prerendered graphics. This is no different than any other 2.5D game only that its production values are shoddy. It looks 1999 because of that...not because it uses prerenders. It has nothing to do with the engine...a different one isn't going to display a background plate any better or worse, but the style they used is atrocious, so we get a nice muddy, low res mess of a background. And, I wouldn't call the use of prerenders, "yesterday's" technology nor realtime "today's". Realtime is nothing new, and prerenders have plenty of room in modern experiences.

If done correctly, Pre renders look amazing, why not have pre rendered characters as well? Because the two clash serverly. They must both be at the same standard to blend well. I never ment to say pre rendered is yesterdays technology, I love pre rendered when done correctly. And I even love the Jedi Knight Jedi Academy style real time graphics.

[Orange Brat]

I think this game is running in either 640x480 or 800x600 mode, so that's another reason why it looks so muddy. I even had antialiasing on, and it still looked terrible.

A realtime player model can look great on a prerender if the styles are consistent or if the model is well constructed and has a nice skin. L&O's does not.

I got a long ways into the demo, so it irks me that it crashed...I never saved, so it I didn't bother trying it again.

[fathamburger]

The game is buggy as hell, for anyone having problems, it's not just you. This applies to both the demo and the retail

Check this out

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gen...p?board=920286

What the hell happened to Legacy?

[Dasilva]

Isent there already 2 threads about this game?

[Dale Baldwin]

Yeah, I will merge them.... when I work out how.

EDIT: Done.

[fov]

Well done.

[Leonard Shelby]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

I wish people who make crappy games like this make it freeware, because if they charge the price of a regular game for this product? I'd rather get something else.

You re so right .

I m laughing at their pathetic interview on this very site now, when they were clamining making one of the "best" games ever .

Well best means lost for Craig and Elisabeth and Legacy cause what i m seeing here is something utterly crap and i m staying polite .

Well Done Legacy i won t EVER spend any cent of my precious money of your atrocious and badly done products

Poor people who currently bought this insult to video gaming

[fov]

unblest_orc: I moved your question here.