[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by Aj_

Lot's of cards use the R300 core, 9700pro being one of them yes, but I don't recall the stats of the Gamecubes GPU being similar, but I could be wrong. I thought the Xbox used a NV2A, which is similar to the NV25, the Geforce 4 Ti and Geforce 3 Ti.

I don't know for sure, I think I read that somewhere a long time ago, but maybe I'm wrong.

Doesn't matter anyway, the point is that I don't see PC gaming suffering because of the new generation of consoles. PC gaming pushes the whole PC hardware industry, hardware companies definitely wouldn't want to see their market diminished.

[Aj_]

Doesn't matter anyway, the point is that I don't see PC gaming suffering because of the new generation of consoles. PC gaming pushes the whole PC hardware industry, hardware companies definitely wouldn't want to see their market diminished.

True that was my point aswell. It's pretty obvious that by the time the PS3 is released the PC would have surpassed it. 500Mhz ATI and Nvidia cards will be mid-range by then, the AMD64 4000+ Venice isn't that expensive now.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by Aj_

True that was my point aswell. It's pretty obvious that by the time the PS3 is released the PC would have surpassed it. 500Mhz ATI and Nvidia cards will be mid-range by then, the AMD64 4000+ Venice isn't that expensive now.

I definitely am sure that PC's will surpass consoles eventually, no question about it. But my concern is more on how many people are willing to upgrade again, and how many publishers are willing to spend a few million extra dollars on a PC port knowing that the audience for PC gaming is shrinking. We'll just have to wait and see how it plays out.

[Aj_]

I'm pretty sure the stats don't include Half-Life 2 and World of Warcraft, both record breakers, maybe 2005 saw a rise in PC games sales.

On a MMO note, something that the consoles haven't been able to get right yet, they have got stronger and stronger, with more being earned from monthly fees each year.

Steam,valve hasn't disclosed how many bought HL2 on steam, and no one knows how well Gamespy's direct to drive service is doing, but they are still open, so it seems they are making a profit.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by Aj_

I'm pretty sure the stats don't include Half-Life 2 and World of Warcraft, both record breakers, maybe 2005 saw a rise in PC games sales.

On a MMO note, something that the consoles haven't been able to get right yet, they have got stronger and stronger, with more being earned from monthly fees each year.

Steam,valve hasn't disclosed how many bought HL2 on steam, and no one knows how well Gamespy's direct to drive service is doing, but they are still open, so it seems they are making a profit.

Buf for every HL2 and WOW, there is a handful of games that have busted. And speaking of blizzard, they acquired swinging Apes (the developer of Starcraft Ghost), to make more console games. Valve is releasing HL2 for the XBOX. Id is experimenting with next-gen consoles for their next game. VU Games is switching more into becoming a console publisher (they are the second biggest PC publisher in the world). Publishers and developers do not care about formats. They go where they can reap the most money. Video games is a business, and formats are really irrelevant in the big picture.

[samIamsad]

New consoles arrive. I don't see what's so different this time.. If the PC gaming market will collapse one day, it could lead to self purification. I'm not so keen on most made-to-be blockbuster games out there. And the current state of the gaming industry in general isn't that... thrilling anyway. It's not a question of platforms, it's a question of games.

[100ja a.k.a. mr_mitja]

Well, I think like this. If you don't need a pc for anything else but gaming, then go right ahead and buy a console. You'll be comfortable sitting in your sofa or whatever, and play games. Talking about present, there's really just a handful of games on consoles that aren't ported to pc. These days more and more developers make their games for consoles in the first place. And then they port them for pc, to make more money obviously.

On the other hand, I don't see how you can play, lets say, strategies with a gamepad? And FPS will always play better on pc. You could probably buy yourself a mouse and keyboard for your console, but then what's the point in having one in the first place? If you can't play on it from your sofa?

There were next consoloes, ataris, amigas, commodores, throughout the history of pc gaming. And it outlived them all. PS2 was made some time ago now, and it was pretty much better than pc in those days. But it got outdated rather quick. So, now here's your brand new PS3, which will get outdated in a year. PC is just unbeatable!

And when it comes to upgrading, I never buy the best thing on the market. There are always people saying it's better to buy state of the art hardware, cause your pc will be good for gaming for a few years. And it really isn't true. I always go with best buy, the best ratio of price and what I'm getting. Of course, that means I won't be playing Half Life 2 in the next year or two, but I really don't mind. If it's a good game, it will be good in a couple of years too (unless, of course, all the hype was about geraphics). And by that time, it will be cheaper than a pint of beer in your local pub.

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by 100ja a.k.a. mr_mitja

Talking about present, there's really just a handful of games on consoles that aren't ported to pc.

There are hundreds, and a good deal of them are great. And sloppy ports are still common, I'm affraid.

On the other hand, I don't see how you can play, lets say, strategies with a gamepad?

True, can be done, but hardly fun. However, you could use voice recognition and order your troops around, I think we'll see more of that in future.

There were next consoloes, ataris, amigas, commodores, throughout the history of pc gaming. And it outlived them all.

PC as a concept, yes. But PC hardware gets outdated much faster than any console does.

PS2 was made some time ago now, and it was pretty much better than pc in those days. But it got outdated rather quick.

Yes, but that's just graphics and presentation, the surface. Games don't get outdated, do they?.

All that said, I love my PC and I would never give it up for anything. In fact, I never owned any console, but that's definitely going to change as soon as Xbox 360 hits the market

And by that time, it will be cheaper than a pint of beer in your local pub.

Mmm... beer

[RLacey]

Given that PCs (or Macs, I'll say preemptively) are the only way in which designers with zero budget can make their games, free from expensive licence fees, and that the PC is best suited to cutting one's teeth in learning to program, I would be absolutely stunned if PC gaming were to disappear.

Yes, more people have consoles, but the PC is upgradable, and if it is ever behind the consoles from a technological point of view it is a momentary blip. The raft of new consoles may change the games people develop and the games that get ported to the PC (and vice-versa), but they're certainly not going to wipe out the PC as a market.

:edit: And upgrading one's PC is nothing new. Well, not unless one started playing state of the art PC games only recently ...

[syntheticgerbil]

Hey I would just like to say that I don't have any idea how you guys are saying a new console costs 300 or 400 bucks.

I think you can buy any new console right now for no more than $150, Gamecube being the cheapest. And all the three major ones are still having new games released. I don't see how that's too expensive at all. The last console I ever bought new was a Dreamcast and that was $200 on launch. Not sure about the other 128-bit systems.

But consoles are just like their games: just give them a year and the price will be reasonable and you'll still have new games coming to satisfy your cravings.

Well that is, unless you bought a Dreamcast.

[SakSquash]

Originally Posted by syntheticgerbil

Hey I would just like to say that I don't have any idea how you guys are saying a new console costs 300 or 400 bucks.

I think you can buy any new console right now for no more than $150, Gamecube being the cheapest. And all the three major ones are still having new games released. I don't see how that's too expensive at all. The last console I ever bought new was a Dreamcast and that was $200 on launch. Not sure about the other 128-bit systems.

But consoles are just like their games: just give them a year and the price will be reasonable and you'll still have new games coming to satisfy your cravings.

Well that is, unless you bought a Dreamcast.

Xbox was $300 when it launched and so was PS2 I believe. But it's cheaper than upgrading your computer if you ask me.

[Fairygdmther]

You know the one thing I don't see mentioned here is the enormous difference in gameplay between the consoles and PC's. Young people who've grown up with console play may not realize that we older people haven't acquired the skills with gamepads that you guys have. PC games use the mouse and/or keyboard that we've learned to use effectively through our workplaces. As long as PC's are used in the workforce, I don't think PC gaming will ever die. People want games for their downtimes, especially on laptops for those who travel.

PC's are now in over 80% of the US households, consoles are in the 45% range (according to the last figures I've seen). People who don't have kids may never have been exposed to the consoles and don't even know what they have to offer. Granted this will change, as they become more accepted, but I don't think they will ever replace the PC as a gaming machine.

FGM-Lyn

[Aj_]

PS3 will be $500 on launch. So far I don't think any of us have seen this console in action, and if the PS2 hype is anything to go by the PS3 won't do everything it was promised to do. At that price point a PC could probably mean the cheaper and more powerful option if you discount the keyboard, mouse, monitor etc... costs.

[SakSquash]

Originally Posted by Aj_

PS3 will be $500 on launch. So far I don't think any of us have seen this console in action, and if the PS2 hype is anything to go by the PS3 won't do everything it was promised to do. At that price point a PC could probably mean the cheaper and more powerful option if you discount the keyboard, mouse, monitor etc... costs.

Are you serious? I want proof! I have no plans to buy a PS3, but it seems unlikely that they would release it at such a high price. Got a link to where it says this?

EDIT:: Nevermind, I found it myself.

Link

There's no way in hell this thing is going to sell.

[Burns11]

Originally Posted by 100ja a.k.a. mr_mitja

there's really just a handful of games on consoles that aren't ported to pc.

Untrue, the VAST majority of console games never get ported off of their current console, forget about PC ports. This will also diminish next gen, because of the multithreaded processors. Gmaes are just getting more and more expensive to port to PC without any more people buying them.


As to the price of the PS3 and the (very ill advised) IGN article, IGN got the whole mood of the article wrong. Fairly recently Sony released the PSX in Japan, topping out at a whopping 100k yen ($900 at the time), then later prices on the system dropped (twice in fact) to a low of about 50k yen. Notice a common number there? This article is Sony saying it will be cheaper than the PSX.

[SakSquash]

Originally Posted by Burns11

Fairly recently Sony released the PSX in Japan.

Oh yeah?

[samIamsad]

Originally Posted by temporaryscars

There's no way in hell this thing is going to sell.

When the PS2 was released over here, it cost more than 800 Deutsche Mark (400+ Euros). I don't think the PS1 was any cheaper back in the day.

FGM brought up a good point, although I doubt it is profitable to develop AAA titles on next-gen budgets for "fringe groups". Not that Ă*t's necessarily a bad thing, mind you. Again, my self-purification argument.. In the past PC gaming was about strategy, roleplay, adventure and action games. Now both platforms (consoles AND pc) are primarily about action games. Real time strategy, FPS, RPGs with lots of real time combat. I personally don't care, as long as *the games* (yes, the good ones) will be there.

[syntheticgerbil]

Originally Posted by Fairygdmther

You know the one thing I don't see mentioned here is the enormous difference in gameplay between the consoles and PC's. Young people who've grown up with console play may not realize that we older people haven't acquired the skills with gamepads that you guys have. PC games use the mouse and/or keyboard that we've learned to use effectively through our workplaces. As long as PC's are used in the workforce, I don't think PC gaming will ever die. People want games for their downtimes, especially on laptops for those who travel.

PC's are now in over 80% of the US households, consoles are in the 45% range (according to the last figures I've seen). People who don't have kids may never have been exposed to the consoles and don't even know what they have to offer. Granted this will change, as they become more accepted, but I don't think they will ever replace the PC as a gaming machine.

FGM-Lyn

Well the thing is, I grew up on the PC and know how hard it is to tweak everything and make your game either run just right or sometimes not even run at all.

I just recently got into console gaming about a year ago when I was able to afford it and ditched my 800MHz PC which couldn't play anything "newish" anyways. With a console, you just put the game in and you're ready.

I mostly just like consoles because of the lack of headaches. (Although there is still some sometimes)

[100ja a.k.a. mr_mitja]

Originally Posted by me, myself and I

Talking about present, there's really just a handful of games on consoles that aren't ported to pc.

OK, I'll refrase this a bit. Sure, there are plenty of good/great games on consoles, but for every MGS there's a Splinter's Cell on pc. Almost.
Also, I'm 22 years old. And, lets say I have some 55 years to live. Soon I'll have to get a job...less time for gaming. I doubt that in my lifetime I'll be able to play all the great games out there, on any console. So far, only pc gaming is more than enough. I have a PS2, have played a few games, but even if I get bored or play out all the games that my pc can handle, I think that I could just play PS2 games for the rest of my life. Sure, I'll buy a PS3, but probably by the time PS4 comes out.

[SakSquash]

Originally Posted by Aj_

Not from what I have read, you do need to mod to copy a Xbox game the first time though I believe. There are plenty of images on torrent sites and guides to burn them.

I checked it out. You need a mod to play downloaded games.