[insane_cobra]

Nothing will happen to PC gaming, it will stay the way it is, more or less. Maybe we'll see a tiny decline, but I doubt it. Some genres just work best on PCs and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Speaking of computing power, when the last generation of consoles came out, they were about 3 times more powerfull than the fastest PCs, yet PCs caught up when ATI released their 9700 graphics card series.

Now, they're just about twice as fast and if you can afford two GF6800 Ultra cards, not even that much. Both Xbox 360 and PS3 have incredibly fast CPUs, in adition to their GPUs, and probably some neat architeture tricks, but by the time the next generation of graphics cards is out, I suspect PCs will catch up in that area as well. Sure, PCs cost a lot more than consoles, but that was always the case.

[AFGNCAAP]

You don't even have to look at the current interesting Shrewd Gamers Thread to know there always be significant number of people who enjoy gaming a lot but don't want to/can't afford building their whole lifestyle around it. As others have noted, the computers offers a lot more, plus the games are cheaper. Thus, I predict PC will still have huge following, at least in the foreseeable future.

[Ninja Dodo]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

But millions of Halo and Halo 2 hardcore gamers can disprove that.

Well, I played the first Halo for a bit and while it's interesting, it's just not the same as the looking around feeling you get when playing an FPS with a mouse on the PC.

[Wormsie]

1000 years from now, I don't think we have a concept of a Personal Computer anymore.

[Kolzig]

Nah, pc gaming ain't gonna disappear.
It'll disappear when all gaming disappears.

[SakSquash]

Originally Posted by Glenn Epic

I love console FPSers

I second that.


But listen, i've been reading game magazines since I was old enough to read. At any one time, i've had no less than 2 subscriptions to some kind of magazine, and every time a new console comes out, this question comes into play, and yet, here we are, still playing games.

Though, if you look at the loss in revenue, i'd say it was due more to an increase of downloading games illegaly. Any schmope can download Doom3 for PC, but it's sehr difficult to download xbox games. You need a modded xbox and all that jazz.

[Aj_]

Speaking of computing power, when the last generation of consoles came out, they were about 3 times more powerfull than the fastest PCs, yet PCs caught up when ATI released their 9700 graphics card series.

I think the Xbox is more inline with a Geforce 3 Ti, and the PS2 closer to a GF2. I also believe that the Dreamcast and PS2 were in the same generation, and that the Gamecube and Xbox are a generation beyond. I think the PC was about 6 months behind all the recent consoles, and that the very top end of PCs are close to the power of the Xbox360 and the PS3, yet with their specialized design you can probably get a lot out of them when developers start learning the architecture.

Though, if you look at the loss in revenue, i'd say it was due more to an increase of downloading games illegaly. Any schmope can download Doom3 for PC, but it's sehr difficult to download xbox games. You need a modded xbox and all that jazz.

You do not anymore need to mod the Xbox anyone to bypass the copyright protection. While this might have coincided with the rise of P2P, I'm hoping it isn't the reason.

[SakSquash]

Originally Posted by Aj_

I think the Xbox is more inline with a Geforce 3 Ti, and the PS2 closer to a GF2. I also believe that the Dreamcast and PS2 were in the same generation, and that the Gamecube and Xbox are a generation beyond. I think the PC was about 6 months behind all the recent consoles, and that the very top end of PCs are close to the power of the Xbox360 and the PS3, yet with their specialized design you can probably get a lot out of them when developers start learning the architecture.

You do not anymore need to mod the Xbox anyone to bypass the copyright protection. While this might have coincided with the rise of P2P, I'm hoping it isn't the reason.

But I thought you needed a mod to get the games from your pc to your xbox? I'm pretty sure they wont fit on a disc.

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by Aj

I think the Xbox is more inline with a Geforce 3 Ti

Nope, Gamecube's graphics subsystem was based on ATI's R300 architecture which later became basis for R9700pro cards, and Xbox's graphics subsystem was based on NVIDIA's NV30 which became the FX series of their graphics accelerators afterwards.

[Aj_]

But I thought you needed a mod to get the games from your pc to your xbox? I'm pretty sure they wont fit on a disc.

Not from what I have read, you do need to mod to copy a Xbox game the first time though I believe. There are plenty of images on torrent sites and guides to burn them.

Nope, Gamecube's graphics subsystem was based on ATI's R300 architecture which later became basis for R9700pro cards, and Xbox's graphics subsystem was based on NVIDIA's NV30 which became the FX series of their graphics accelerators afterwards.

Lot's of cards use the R300 core, 9700pro being one of them yes, but I don't recall the stats of the Gamecubes GPU being similar, but I could be wrong. I thought the Xbox used a NV2A, which is similar to the NV25, the Geforce 4 Ti and Geforce 3 Ti.

[Phantom]

PC gaming is already a niche market today, sadly enough. Even the biggest of PC games rarely break through the mainstream like console hits do. Talk to your average joe on the street: most likely they'll know (or have heard of) GTA and Halo. Most likely they never heard of Half-Life or Warcraft. It's become a niche market, but I'm pretty confident it will remain like that and not disappear.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by Aj_

And those are the only cards that run the latest games?

If you want to get the most out of your games yes. And some games don't support anything prior to a Ge Force 4, and that's minimum requirements. We all know how games play like with minimum requirements.

Originally Posted by Aj_

Funny, I do more on my PC than use word.

Me too, and I don't need an NVIDIA for anything I'm doing. What do you do that's so hard core that requires 256 MBs of video memory.

Originally Posted by Aj_

and yet only down 2% from 2003. The stats copany you got those figurse from used to (i think until 2003) only give hardware and sotware sales for consoles.

These are the figures from last year, and they are only accounting for games.

[Aj_]

If you want to get the most out of your games yes. And some games don't support anything prior to a Ge Force 4, and that's minimum requirements. We all know how games play like with minimum requirements.

A 9600XT can run all the latest games at acceptable settings, a 9700pro/XT or 9800pro/XT are great, a 6600GT and X700 can also run all the latest games. Doom 3 is the only game that has a large performance increase when using of 256MB of video memory. Nowhere near the minimum requirements.

Me too, and I don't need an NVIDIA for anything I'm doing. What do you do that's so hard core that requires 256 MBs of video memory.

I don't have a 256MB card, but it has improved 3D modelling, rendering, 2D graphics editing, video editing, video playing, and allows me to work at a higher resolution for a larger monitor.

The memory capacity isn't the most important thing, the core, the bandwidth, the pipes and the shader support are some of the many things that are infront of it.

[SakSquash]

Man. I love you guys.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by Aj_

A 9600XT can run all the latest games at acceptable settings, a 9700pro/XT or 9800pro/XT are great, a 6600GT and X700 can also run all the latest games. Doom 3 is the only game that has a large performance increase when using of 256MB of video memory. Nowhere near the minimum requirements.

Well the DOOM 3 engine is going to be standard in the next gen, so you better start saving. And I heard that the Unreal 3 engine, when it was displayed last year at E3 stuttered even with the highest specs of PC's whereas the new PS3 ran it smoothly. Oh and there is a small thing called a PPU coming out at the end of this year. And have you heard that AMD and Intel are working on a dual core processor, something similar to what next gen consoles are using? So let's see, to play the next-gen games, I'll need a new Graphics card, a PPU, and a new micro-processor. That means a new motherboard also. You do the math.

Originally Posted by Aj_

I don't have a 256MB card, but it has improved 3D modelling, rendering, 2D graphics editing, video editing, video playing, and allows me to work at a higher resolution for a larger monitor.

The memory capacity isn't the most important thing, the core, the bandwidth, the pipes and the shader support are some of the many things that are infront of it.

I don't know what you do for a living, but unless you are an artist, you don't need all this rendering software. And even if you do, a low end graphics card can handle it, unless you are working on the Unreal engine, in which case you are an exception not the rule.

Originally Posted by tempsie

Man I love you guys.

I love you too.

[Aj_]

Well the DOOM 3 engine is going to be standard in the next gen, so you better start saving. And I heard that the Unreal 3 engine, when it was displayed last year at E3 stuttered even with the highest specs of PC's whereas the new PS3 ran it smoothly. Oh and there is a small thing called a PPU coming out at the end of this year. And have you heard that AMD and Intel are working on a dual core processor, something similar to what next gen consoles are using? So let's see, to play the next-gen games, I'll need a new Graphics card, a PPU, and a new micro-processor. That means a new motherboard also. You do the math.

A PS3 wasn't running anything at last year's E3, and I'm not sure at this year's E3 it will either. I heard that Microsoft has licensed the Unreal 3 engine for a lot of games, and Epic is making atleast 2 with it, but I haven't heard it is being used for any PS3 games.

A PPU is all well and good, takes a load off the CPU, but I don't see them coming to PCs.

Xbox360 has dual core, PS3 has CELL. AMD and Intel have already released Dual core processors, AMD only for business, and Intel will eventually release for Desktop. The benchmarks show they don't improve game performance, how many games are mutli-threaded? How many are going to be?

I don't know what you do for a living, but unless you are an artist, you don't need all this rendering software. And even if you do, a low end graphics card can handle it, unless you are working on the Unreal engine, in which case you are an exception not the rule.

do you do the same things as me? Do you use the same software?

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by Aj_

A PS3 isn't running anything, and I'm not sure at this year's E3 it will either. I heard that Microsoft has licensed the Unreal 3 engine for a lot of games, and Epic is making atleast 2 with it, but I haven't heard it is being used for any PS3 games.

A PPU is all well and good, takes a load off the CPU, but I don't see them coming to PCs.

Aj_, are you arguing for the sake of arguing? http://www.gamespot.com/e3/index.html and click on Playstation 3 hardware technology demo. And the PPU will be available for you these hollidays.

Originally Posted by Aj_

Xbox360 has dual core, PS3 has CELL. AMD and Intel have already released Dual core processors, AMD only for business, and Intel will eventually release for Desktop. The benchmarks show they don't improve game performance, how many games are mutli-threaded? How many are going to be?

XBOX 360 has triple core. Of course they improve performance, if you write code that utilizes them, and programmers will start writing more multi-threaded code that makes the most use of the hardware.

Originally Posted by Aj_

do you do the same things as me? Do you use the same software?

I don't but I am a heavy user of computers (seeing as it is my full time job to work with them), and I honestly do not need this ultra power, except to play games.

[Erkki]

PPU? Physics PU?

But really, we are no longer in a place where you need to have a very high end PC to run the latest games. At least we wasn't this Chirstmas season. Haven't played any new games after that.
Half-Life 2 worked quite well with 9600Pro, 2000MHz Athlon, 1GB old SDRAM, all that on quite an old motherboard that doesn't officially support that CPU.
I think that is/was quite a mediocre PC (except it has more RAM), although I haven't really payed much attention to the latest developements...

[Aj_]

Aj_, are you arguing for the sake of arguing?

No, are you? I find that insulting.

http://www.gamespot.com/e3/index.html and click on Playstation 3 hardware technology demo. And the PPU will be available for you these hollidays.

Technology Demo, meaning not actual games, and not an actual console. Yes, a PPU is being developed for the PC, I didn't know this, good for you.

XBOX 360 has triple core.

True, my mistake, I knew it did.

Of course they improve performance, if you write code that utilizes them, and programmers will start writing more multi-threaded code that makes the most use of the hardware.

No, there has been little proof that they would, games are not like server software. It is cheaper for specific hardware because in that case the developers like to load everything onto the CPU.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by Erkki

PPU? Physics PU?

Yeah it is exciting news. Today there is a certain limit on how much physics can be handled by the CPU in one screen. They are making a card that is purely dedicated for physics. It should improve gameplay, but *sigh* we will need to buy yet another card.