[ragnar]

Originally Posted by Erkki

That maybe so, but there's a shitload of things to learn. Firstly, which distribution to use? I've tried Mandrake 10.0 (and 9.1 or something previously),

Yes, there are lots of distribution (more than you thought was possible ). There are some bigger dists that's more safe bets, RedHat, Suse, Debian and some more. Think of them like different (but yet rather similar) operating systems. It might take some time trying and testing, but I think it's better for the consumer to get choose a product that fits him or her, rather than one decided that this is the only way.

but I just don't know where to easily learn the things that are different from Windows. Well, to be honest, maybe I've not bothered too much to find a place where all is explained, but have resorted to trial&error learning.

Well, user documentation has really never been a strong point for linux. Most hackers find that kind of thing boring unfortunately. The thing is that I almost never find good documentation for windows either when I need it.

Even creating shortcuts is confusing even, and different in Gnome and KDE, as far as I remember.

I personally dislike shortcuts, especially the windows way of doing them.

And where should I install programs? There's no default setting like "XProgram Files" for windows, and I never understood how this works in linux.

There are two answers here, depending on what you downloaded: Either through the package systems (so that you can get the correct dependencies for the programs) or wherever you want.

I haven't used it for a long time now, but as I remember some things are at /usr/bin and some at /usr/sbin or something and so on or were those only for the binaries?

Yes, that's where binaries goes, docs go to /usr/share/doc and there are lots of other locations, but if you use the package system, you shouldn't need to worry about that too much.

[timcclayton]

I could shoot down most of what you've said, but you know what ?
You're a Linux user and therefore clearly have a lot of time on your hands, but
I don't and therefore can't be arsed to get into the fors and againsts in this, particularly when it is going to be SO one-sided. I simply stated good reasons why people don't use Linux for gaming and they stand, despite your pathetic counter-arguments that simply don't add up.

Maybe one day it will be fit for the purpose, but for now, forget Linux for mainstream gaming.

[ragnar]

Originally Posted by timcclayton

I could shoot down most of what you've said, but you know what ?

If it's so easy, why don't you?

You're a Linux user and therefore clearly have a lot of time on your hands,

What? Why would I have more time on my hands because I'm a linux user? Have I missed something here?

but I don't and therefore can't be arsed to get into the fors and againsts in this,

Since you've decided that linux is the worst thing ever and you can't change your mind?

particularly when it is going to be SO one-sided.

From your point of view anyway.

I simply stated good reasons why people don't use Linux for gaming and they stand, despite your pathetic counter-arguments that simply don't add up.

Because you're always right and can't be wrong?

Maybe one day it will be fit for the purpose, but for now, forget Linux for mainstream gaming.

There are a lot of gaming going on that isn't mainstream. Get used to it. And just to enlighten you: It was possible to play games even before windows.

[gillyruless]

Originally Posted by ragnar

There are a lot of gaming going on that isn't mainstream. Get used to it. And just to enlighten you: It was possible to play games even before windows.

This is true but you have to agree that Windows made it easier (or more intuitive) to have a game installed and played. Power users may find many annoying things about Windows but you can't deny the fact that it enabled casual PC users to get up and start playing games without having to know a lot. My mother who turned 60 this year can play games in Windows, I don't see her being able to do so in DOS or Linux.

On this issue, I think I'm with Tim. It does take some work to try to learn how to navigate Linux and play games on it although I'm not a PC novice. So unless I get vast benefits out of playing game on Linux, why should I bother? Playing games on Windows works just fine for me. I'm sorry if I'm missing your point but this is how I feel.

[gillyruless]

Originally Posted by timcclayton

You're a Linux user and therefore clearly have a lot of time on your hands, but I don't and therefore can't be arsed to get into the fors and againsts in this, particularly when it is going to be SO one-sided.

You know Americans and Brits speak the same laguage but why is it just sounds 8-) er when you Brits speak it? No fair! I want to sound cool too.

[SoccerDude28]

I agree with Timcclayton on this one. I have limited knowledge of Linux, and I hate MS just like everyone else. But Windows is still the gaming platform, and going through all the hassle of learning Linux, installing it on a seperate machine and learning how to install the games seems like a lot of work, especially when most of the games coming out don't run on Linux yet. When most of the games start coming out on Linux, I will be the first to convert.

[Deano]

I hate Mircrosoft's bussiness practices, and up until about 3 years ago I hated thier software aswell, buggy, useless stuff that kept crashing. I had Linux installed aswell and used that when I wanted to do anything constructive, keeping Win98 for games.
Then XP came out - got to hand it to them, its a pretty stable piece of software that works... sure it's full of security flaws which is a major problem but at least it doesn't crash every few hours. I don't use Linux anymore, no need for it.

As for why thier arn't more Linux games, is there a Linux equivalent of DirectX ? and is it as good? DirectX is a godsend for games programmers as they can write for the standard without having to worry about different PC configurations, it's another fantastic achievement by Microsoft, is there anything remotely simmilar for Linux?

I really do hate M$ and what they represent but XP and DirectX are really good pieces of software.

[Erkki]

Originally Posted by Deano

DirectX is a godsend for games programmers as they can write for the standard without having to worry about different PC configurations, it's another fantastic achievement by Microsoft, is there anything remotely simmilar for Linux?

Well, for graphics there's OpenGL, which is multi-platform. And for sound there is OpenAL, which is also multi-platform. I don't know how popular that is, though. Regarding input and networking, I don't know. There's no complete package that includes all four of those aspects that I know of.

[Makxp77]

Software Piracy is Wrong though its not important as other crimes are!

I understand and agree to a point with both sides of the argument though the software companies ask for this trouble and heres how:

1. I bought a game for $50 a while back from CompUsa, I looked at all the requirements on the internet website and BOX.

2. It stated I could run the game fine. I also installed and played the demo fine. I got home and installed the game the movies were locking up my system.

3. I downloaded all sorts of drivers/patches from everywhere. Then finally the game stopped working all together 8 total hours lost of my time in a week. Btw tech support was a hour + wait after the time I got home from work to help me.

4. Took the game back to Compusa with my receipt and demanded my money back or a store credit, Compusa stated "We can only exchange item for same title" Wow thats nice 1st one installed fine though wouldnt play movies and locked my system up.

5. Finally got a hold of tech support (called from work) got some tech in India to give me support who couldnt even understand what I was saying.


SO?

A. Who will pay for my lost time?
B. Iam still stuck with the game I cannot play?
C. Iam out of $50+8% tax?
D. Company Claims they have ANTI PIRACY technology on these disc then why not refund my money?
E. Why Should I pay for something next time if there is a good chance Iam going to get robbed of $50+8% tax?

I belive if you download a game, program or music it installs right, plays right and you like it then go buy it plain and simple. If you continue to use it you have stolen and are of bad character.


Should we put pirates in jail ? Lets put and keep the child molester in jail first before kids who copy programs, games and music cds. I dont see Hollywood Moviestars and Rockstars being a victim of a dangerous and violent crime, have you ever seen anyone hold up a movie star for their movie?

[Fop]

Originally Posted by Erkki

That maybe so, but there's a shitload of things to learn. Firstly, which distribution to use? I've tried Mandrake 10.0 (and 9.1 or something previously), but I just don't know where to easily learn the things that are different from Windows.

That's an importent thing to notice. It's different from Windows. Did you immediatly learn Windows? I don't think so. And the existance of different distributions is a good thing, isn't it? Or would you rather only have one presidential candidate too? It does mean that you may want to do some research first, but there are reviews and comparisons.

Originally Posted by Erkki

Well, to be honest, maybe I've not bothered too much to find a place where all is explained, but have resorted to trial&error learning. Even creating shortcuts is confusing even, and different in Gnome and KDE, as far as I remember.
And where should I install programs? There's no default setting like "XProgram Files" for windows, and I never understood how this works in linux. I haven't used it for a long time now, but as I remember some things are at /usr/bin and some at /usr/sbin or something and so on or were those only for the binaries?

Most distros use some kind of package management that takes care of that for you. So you don't even choose the directories the programs get installed in. Double click and wait. The files get spread to certain folders, which vary a bit from distro to distro. It's just a different philosophy of doing things. Instead of putting all files in one folder, all binaries are put in the binary folder etc. That or you can unpack the files in your home folder, many programs come with installers that can take care of installing them to either just you or all users.

I'm not saying learning Linux doesn't take some time, and it can be complicated. But when you learn it, using it is as simple or simpler than using Windows.

[Fop]

Originally Posted by Erkki

Well, for graphics there's OpenGL, which is multi-platform. And for sound there is OpenAL, which is also multi-platform. I don't know how popular that is, though. Regarding input and networking, I don't know. There's no complete package that includes all four of those aspects that I know of.

There's SDL for non-3d games, multiplatform also.

[Erkki]

Yeah, I was going to mention SDL, I've used it a little myself, but I'm not sure if it's good enough for use in triple-A commercial games for example.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by Makxp77

Software Piracy is Wrong though its not important as other crimes are!

I understand and agree to a point with both sides of the argument though the software companies ask for this trouble and heres how:

1. I bought a game for $50 a while back from CompUsa, I looked at all the requirements on the internet website and BOX.

2. It stated I could run the game fine. I also installed and played the demo fine. I got home and installed the game the movies were locking up my system.

3. I downloaded all sorts of drivers/patches from everywhere. Then finally the game stopped working all together 8 total hours lost of my time in a week. Btw tech support was a hour + wait after the time I got home from work to help me.

4. Took the game back to Compusa with my receipt and demanded my money back or a store credit, Compusa stated "We can only exchange item for same title" Wow thats nice 1st one installed fine though wouldnt play movies and locked my system up.

5. Finally got a hold of tech support (called from work) got some tech in India to give me support who couldnt even understand what I was saying.


SO?

A. Who will pay for my lost time?
B. Iam still stuck with the game I cannot play?
C. Iam out of $50+8% tax?
D. Company Claims they have ANTI PIRACY technology on these disc then why not refund my money?
E. Why Should I pay for something next time if there is a good chance Iam going to get robbed of $50+8% tax?

I belive if you download a game, program or music it installs right, plays right and you like it then go buy it plain and simple. If you continue to use it you have stolen and are of bad character.


Should we put pirates in jail ? Lets put and keep the child molester in jail first before kids who copy programs, games and music cds. I dont see Hollywood Moviestars and Rockstars being a victim of a dangerous and violent crime, have you ever seen anyone hold up a movie star for their movie?

I think part of why companies like COMPUSA do that is because they fear that you are gonna take the game, copy it and return it to them. I knew a lot of people who used to do that with EBGAMES. They would take the game for 2 days, copy it, and then return it saying this game sux and we want a refund. See how pirates indirectly effect people who buy the games the legal way.