[Starflux]

But now I do. This week I bought the Gamecube version for the incredible price of 17,50 euro's and played it (the original, French version, which has SUPERB voice-acting). And now I understand what all the upheaval is about: it's GREAT! Beyond Good & Evil takes the best of the (3D) Zelda series and puts that distinct Frenchy spin on it. It breathes the same dreamy atmosphere that made Little Big Adventure such an enjoyable experience and just radiates high class and style out of every pore. I haven't even played that far into the game, but I'm enjoying it so much... all those little details and integrated gameplay-experiences (it would be insulting to call them mere mini-games)...

I've never seen a sidekick so well-developed as Pey'j. Not just as a character, but also as a living buddy that ventures with you. Where other games team you up with moronic, faceless puppets that drop in every chasm, follow your trail in lineair paths and are more of a annoying burden than a rewarding gameplay-element, BG&E's Pey'j feels so real, so helpful. Even besides the comic relief he offers (though sometimes hard to understand in French, the way he rattles his dialectish tongue ), he helps the game come alive even more. When Pey'j needs to cut through a fence and you're standing in front of it, he won't just kneel down and push your avatar aside of worse, just animate right through you. No. He asks if you'd kindly step aside so he can do his work. Refuse, and he'll neglect his assignment. comply and he'll thank you and perform his duty. It's all those little details that other games forget, that make it shine, so bright...

Forgive me if I sound infatuated, but I'm just genuinely touched by this wonderful game.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

You whore!

(Guys, we have yet another convert!)

Oh, and Fluxstud, you need to read our splendid review of BG&E over at Idle Thumbs.*

* This has been a public service announcement.

[remixor]

Thanks Trep, I was about to do that myself.

And yes, BGE is one of the most gorgeous games to come out in recent years. Eurogamer gave it a nod in their list of poorly-selling games that people really should go back and buy.

[Starflux]

The fact is, BGE needs your attention just as much as other, more high-profile Ubi Soft releases like Prince of Persia: Sands of Time and Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow, and as such, you really should do yourself a favour and get yourself a copy. If you don't, then the next time someone pipes up to complain about games all being generic pap these days, you'll be the people we'll point at as the cause.

Now this is why I love Idle Thumbs so much.

And you're right, you're absolutely right. Ironically, I'd have never bought BG&E if the price wasn't so low. I know it was low to begin with, but my budget really doesn't allow me to pay over, say, 20 Euro for a game which I know hardly anything about. Which is a shame, as the experimental factor is weeded out of my gaming life. Rest assured though, as soon as the promised sequels of the BG&E trilogy appear, I will be first in line to pick them up.

And play them in French mode. You really shouldn't underestimate the extra layer of exoticness that is created because the language is one you have to strain to understand. It makes it leave an uncanny, even more wonderful impression on you. On me, in any case.

[log p]

i wouldnt have bought it save for the low price either but that was only because i read it was really short and in actuality it was pretty damn short...if it would have been fleshed out about 15 more hours then i would have dipped into the pocket for the full price...wait...what am i saying?...i just dished out 50 bucks for sudeki a couple weeks back, beat it in three days, and it was mediocre at best

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Flux

Rest assured though, as soon as the promised sequels of the BG&E trilogy appear, I will be first in line to pick them up.

We don't even have the suggestion of the promised sequels.

And play them in French mode. You really shouldn't underestimate the extra layer of exoticness that is created because the language is one you have to strain to understand. It makes it leave an uncanny, even more wonderful impression on you. On me, in any case.

"PRRRRROPAGANDA!"

Originally Posted by log p

...wait...what am i saying?...i just dished out 50 bucks for sudeki a couple weeks back, beat it in three days, and it was mediocre at best

Clearly BG&E was the better bargain, then?

[Starflux]

Is that so? I really believe to have read somewhere that Ubisoft is ignoring the fact that it sold rather poorly, and gave green light for the trilogy. Hey, that's what I thought I heard... and besides, with all the moolah they're making out of Splinter Cell, surely they can skim off a bit and invest in BG&E, like they did in the first place?

Oh, prrrrropaganda! Those raunchy French songs everywhere... Really, I love the Frenchiness of it all.

[log p]

yes...sudeki was a good game but it had a few huge flaws...the fighting was inconsistent...i dislike games where the boss monster is easier to defeat than random enemies...the voice acting and script were good but at points you wondered if the person writing this stuff was even 1/4 lucid

SPOILER ALERT:

the ending...where was it?...im confused...well...the villages were filled with interesting characters, yet they send you on pointless errands and never develop or change at all...other than that the combat was cool, the story was great at points, i would recommend renting it and beating it, then moving on to something more satisfying that doesnt leave such a nasty aftertaste

[Jake]

Originally Posted by log p

.if it would have been fleshed out about 15 more hours then i would have dipped into the pocket for the full price...

It sucks that Ubi didn't launch BG&E at $30 right off and slowly taper it down to $20... I think the length and number of things to do in the game is perfect, but the original price was way off. Honeslty if that game had had another 15 hours I suspect most people would never complete it. I have yet to complete the damn thing and I spend more time playing games than most of my friends.

I'm glad you pointed out that "at full price" it's not worth it for that time, but I'd much rather see people argue that Ubi should have launched it at a cheaper price than somehow inflated the gameplay by 15 hours.

[log p]

i dunno...there are different types of gamers...i breezed through it, albeit taking time to explore and do the side quests, and didnt find it that difficult...same with BS3...i thought it was incredibly easy...then i run into syberia, which ive heard from most is not that hard and i feel like an idiot cos every time i consult a hint guide to get over an obstacle and i end up having to consult it again...yes...i agree with you that it should have debuted for less...many games could benefit extremely from this...for instance, i would never have bought espn nfl 2k5 because i have a limited interest in football and i refuse to dish out all that money for it, but it was debuted at twenty bucks and i couldnt turn that down as i had a small, but substantial enough, interest in it...there are few games i willingly pay full price for...fable will be the next...after that, who knows?...maybe not until elder scrolls 4 or The Movies, whichever comes first

[Jake]

A mini-rant now appearing that is not intended to be personally directed at anyone (not directed at you either log p, but what you said just reminded me of something that made me happy)

Indeed there are different types of gamers. There are a ton of different types of gamers these days! I think that's great. Which is why not every game is going to appeal to every person anymore. BG&E isn't going to give someone something to do with the spare 80 hours of their life this month, and Dreamfall isn't going to appeal to people who only really like first person Myst clones. The wonderful thing is, there are enough gamers around now that this shouldn't be an issue. More game companies need to realize this, and stop trying to make their game appeal to everyone (or the warped sense of "everyone" created by the loud, small bunches of people on game site forums).

Picking up BG&E for $20, and being able to play through large portions of the story with enough challenge to make it fun but not so much that I had to repeatedly throw the controller down after a half hour and come back to it the next day is such a nice refreshing thing. It's nice that so many people around here have found it and enjoy it, but it's clearly not going to be for everyone. I hope people eventually stop worrying about that.

[log p]

good point...there should and NEED to be niche games...the bottom line and bag of cash is the entire reason companies want games to appeal to everyone and there is such a big deal made of it

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Yeah, that's a good point, Jake. But I can't help the awareness that those people who would have otherwise not heard of BG&E actually did - and loved it. Thereby indicating that there must be a larger potential market for this game to reach. This is no doubt a niche game, but how could it reach the entirety of that niche market if the publishers hadn't marketed it more aggressively? And if it had saturated that niche market, what's the possibility of it spreading beyond its market and catching the attention of an even larger market?

[log p]

another great point...but it couldnt have reached the Madden market...not ripping on fans of the series but i live amongst these neanderthals who have bought every Madden for the past six or seven years and give no other games a chance...there are quite a few of these...they also tend to love FPS games...not that there's anything wrong with that!

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Sports games will always outsell many other genres of games. Electronic Arts wouldn't be where they are without 'em. Don't expect those guys who play Madden and nothing but to discover a game like BG&E. And those who do love Madden and end up liking Jade and the pig are probably predisposed to anyway.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Yeah, that's a good point, Jake. But I can't help the awareness that those people who would have otherwise not heard of BG&E actually did - and loved it. Thereby indicating that there must be a larger potential market for this game to reach. This is no doubt a niche game, but how could it reach the entirety of that niche market if the publishers hadn't marketed it more aggressively? And if it had saturated that niche market, what's the possibility of it spreading beyond its market and catching the attention of an even larger market?

I don't think what we're saying is in conflict. I'm not saying that games like BG&E shouldn't be hidden away because of their niche or offbeat status, I think they should proclaim their existence from mountaintops etc, but I don't think they should feel the need to be 40+ hour games, or cost $50 out of fear that they will be overlooked.

I think the people that would like BG&E the most are people who would want to pay $20 for a 15 hour experience more than to pay $50 for a 40 hour experience. But if publishers listen too much to loud hardcore gamers online and the gaming journos who loudly represent them on IGN and GamePro or whatever, they might be led to believe the opposite. The people who say "I would have given this game more attention before it came out I'd heard that it was a longer game" ... a big "meh" to those people, if they don't want the game to be for them, fine it shouldn't be for them.

[Marek]

Originally Posted by Flux

Is that so? I really believe to have read somewhere that Ubisoft is ignoring the fact that it sold rather poorly, and gave green light for the trilogy.

Erm, nope. http://forums.idlethumbs.net/showthread.php?p=7677

[Starflux]

Pity... however, all hope is not lost. If I perceive things clearly, BG&E is slowly gaining more and more ground. It wouldn't surprise me if it would keep selling over the months, slowly accumulating to a decent sale-number. Or is it that games have to be instant hits for them to be deemed "successful"?

[RLacey]

If anyone in the UK STILL hasn't bought this gem, HMV reduced it to £9.99 for a sale, and Game also have it cheap. So GO GET IT!

Having said that, I found some of the sneaky sections a little TOO unfair. I'm sure I lucked my way through a couple.

[Huz]

I think adventure games like Grim Fandango have a tendency to 'gain more and more ground' but nobody seems to pay much attention. Remember that games like Full Throttle are still on sale in high-street stores (in the UK anyway) so someone must be buying them, but I think publishers are after immediate returns - especially considering how much your average game costs to produce. :~

I'm glad someone else found some of the sneaking sections difficult - man, a lot of them were pretty easy with a little patience, but some of them were just impossible! There was one near the end in particular where these two Alpha Sections guys just seemed to be on hair-triggers and there was no way to escape once they spotted you - I can't remember how I solved that one in the end, but I think it involved hiding behind columns and relying on their stupidity! Zone cleared, indeed...

Flaws aside (and there were quite a few, but nowhere near enough to detract significantly from my enjoyment), BG&E is probably one of the best games I've played - glad more people are discovering it! ;D