[NcroManiac]

The comic book code anyone?
The united states is becoming more totalitarian every year, and almost nobody argues.
Games, like other artistic media, has become the number one scapegoat for fake politicians and lawyers, and in their questianable career pursuits they both threaten our most sacred rights and cover up the real sociological issues behind the corruption of the youth: Such as parental negligence, drugs and poverty.
We gamers around the world must rise up against this prejudice and censorship based on medival values, and voice our frustration and anger, for we are not inferior because of our hobby of choice!
(and no, an internet petition is not going to cut it).

[RLacey]

I'm actually in favour of legally enforced age ratings in the manner that the UK seems to be moving to (the majority of new titles seem to be ditching the PEGI ratings, which don't legally prevent the purchase of games and moving to - allegedly - legally enforced BBFC ratings). Now, admittely, this isn't that big a change, as BBFC ratings had previously overridden the higher end PEGI ratings (eg. San Andreas has an "18" certificate), but it does seem to have led to a larger number of titles getting the "15" certificate. From what I can gather, the BBFC rates games in pretty much the same way as it does films, so the ratings are fairly comparable.

Having said that, I believe that adults should be trusted to make their own decisions regarding what they do and do not purchase. And, just as I don't actually have a problem with children being given rated films by their parents if their parents are happy for them to watch, I feel that the same should apply to games.

[Orange Brat]

The united states is becoming more totalitarian every year, and almost nobody argues.

Give me a break. Totalitarian? LOL.

[kuze]

Now, my opinion might go against several others here on a gaming board, but still:

Surely, gaming has often been announced to be the culprit of all evil, and the article outlines the most extreme and negative attitude toward gamers. Also, after every act of violence that could be related to gaming in any way has caused huge media disturbance and massive atterneys'/lawyers' income increases. The Erfurt incident here in Germany had a great inpact on political life. Gamers' societies groaned after the too sudden applied restrictions on the game distribution and harsh game ratings.

However: I often see minors playing GTA, UT or <insert game here> pointing at the screen shouting "look I'm in ur base killin ur doods". Now, violence in a game can be a necessary element in a game, supporting the story, dramatizing the events etc. But games like Manhunt or Postal2 (or GTA *prepares for being bashed*) use violence as the main part of the game, only for the sake of violence. It disgusts me to see human parts being ripped out. I don't see a point why this should be inplemented other than boosting the sales by addressing human instincts.

[NcroManiac]

I am not against age restrictions, just to get that one out of the way.
I'm against the way gaming is treatet in the media, as somekind of a harmful pastime only children are interested in and the ridiculous stigmata it seems to carry.
Clock tower 3 too violent? Nothing that you haven't seen in a recent slasher film.
Saqn Andreas: Hot Coffie pornographic? I've seen PG-13 movies with more flesh.
Postal 2 offensive? Read some Garth Ennis or watch an episode of Drawn Together and your bound to become more insulted.
The thing is games have the right to be more sexual and violent than they currently are, if they were looked upon as other media is, and still not have to carry around that stupid AO raiting.
And if a parent let's his eight year old play GTA or whach an R rated movie, it's he/she that has failed, not we gamers, their retailers or the makers.
If someone goes postal and kills everything that moves around him, it's his fault, not the varius media that he has enjoyed.
And many serialkillers base their killings around the bible or god, should we ban religion then?

[insane_cobra]

Michael Moore on Video Game Violence

[kuze]

Originally Posted by NcroManiac

Clock tower 3 too violent? Nothing that you haven't seen in a recent slasher film.

Well, Clock Tower 3 might have been an odd example in this article. It's a decent horror game, and I haven't noticed any excessive violence in it. Then again, film != film. Saw != Alien.

Originally Posted by NcroManiac

And if a parent let's his eight year old play GTA or whach an R rated movie, it's he/she that has failed, not we gamers, their retailers or the makers.

Well, you judge the parents pretty hard. If a game (like GTA) recieves such a heavy promotion (like it did), it's highly unlikely it will go by a ten year old. And if this very child comes home, begging his mother to buy it for him "because Pete next door has it, and Steve, too, and everyone does" except fot him, I can imagine (and, in fact, do know) lots of mothers who will buy it, without any knowledge what this game is about. And the fact that the content of these games is brought to attention is perfectly fine with me.

[RLacey]

Originally Posted by kuze

Well, you judge the parents pretty hard. If a game (like GTA) recieves such a heavy promotion (like it did), it's highly unlikely it will go by a ten year old. And if this very child comes home, begging his mother to buy it for him "because Pete next door has it, and Steve, too, and everyone does" except fot him, I can imagine (and, in fact, do know) lots of mothers who will buy it, without any knowledge what this game is about. And the fact that the content of these games is brought to attention is perfectly fine with me.

Which is why legally enforced age ratings are a good thing. That way if the parent wants to buy the child the game then he/she can, but they're clearly warned about the content and the child can't simply go out and buy it.

[NcroManiac]

Originally Posted by kuze

Well, you judge the parents pretty hard. If a game (like GTA) recieves such a heavy promotion (like it did), it's highly unlikely it will go by a ten year old. And if this very child comes home, begging his mother to buy it for him "because Pete next door has it, and Steve, too, and everyone does" except fot him, I can imagine (and, in fact, do know) lots of mothers who will buy it, without any knowledge what this game is about. And the fact that the content of these games is brought to attention is perfectly fine with me.

Well, many much more violent movies are promoted in much heavier manner, but do you see avarage Joe buying the Saw 2 dvd for his 10 year old daughter?
Does the avarege Jane sue a porn director because her son and his friend stole into her husbands porno stash when he was at work?
It's not the media that needs to change, but peoples attitudes towards gaming.
No, it's not just for kids and no, it's no better or worse than the other arts!

[kuze]

Originally Posted by NcroManiac

No, it's not just for kids and no, it's no better or worse than the other arts!

Sure thing. I don't want to go into the discussion about what art is and whether one should consider Postal 2 a work of art. But remember, just like games, these other arts received lots of bad press and sues. Stephen King has been criticized more than once for the amount of gore content in his books. And while we are at it, there has been a lot of poking on the explicit sexuality in David Lynch's movies. Heck, Marilyn Manson has constantly being declared to carry the culprit for all the evil for quite a while.

Criticizing this "on-the-edge" content isn't a bad thing. Overreacting media is sure annoying, but demanding that every piece of crap gets its place in the shelves and denying it's effect on the education of young people isn't the right thing either. Btw, the Erfurt shooter was 19, so he was allowed to buy, own and play any game he wanted by law (no, I'm not saying that games are to blame for the death of several people during the incident, just pointing out the weakness in the argument of the rating system).

[RLacey]

Originally Posted by kuze

Btw, the Erfurt shooter was 19, so he was allowed to buy, own and play any game he wanted by law (no, I'm not saying that games are to blame for the death of several people during the incident, just pointing out the weakness in the argument of the rating system).

I was merely using the age system to argue against the whole "We need to protect the kids!" argument that seems to get put forward on a regular basis.

Either way, I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting when talking about the effect these things have on "young people". That there should be a higher rating than AO/18 (perhaps people before the age of 21 can't be trusted)?

Flippancy on my part aside, there's pretty much a limit to what can be prevented outright. Other countries aren't about to ban these games, and they're sure to appear on the internet for the less legally-minded (though removing American sales would lead to fewer of these games being developed, of course). Either way, while it has apparently been shown (and logic would suggest) that the rewards involved in game playing help to modify behaviour to a greater extent than, say, film, is there really a sensible reason to want to ban games such as GTA or - spare us - Counter-Strike, when people can go and see films like The Texas Chainsaw Massacre and films of that ilk without a problem?

I'm all in favour of age ratings to prevent children from having easy access to violent games, but I don't really like the idea of heavily restricting what can and can't be put into a video game because of the small minority of people who happen to play these games and also happen to do something disturbing.

[jjacob]

Originally Posted by Orange Brat

Give me a break. Totalitarian? LOL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarian

It's a slippery slope

[rocketpop]

Why does this happen?

Because its so much easier to point a finger than ever to accept blame for anything. That, to me, is the most disgusting thing. Blame the music, blame the games, blame the movies, blame the media. You'll never hear the media say "we were out of line--we shouldn't be showing this stuff." And you'll never hear a parent say "Yeah... you know, I shouldn't use the TV as a babysitter. I should have probably paid attention to what they were doing at some point or another... Or maybe I should have disciplined them in some way other than saying "stop that!" in a harsh voice."

"Well it wasn't me says the boy with the gun
sure i pulled the trigger but it needed to be done
because life's been killin' me ever since it begun
you cant blame me cause i'm too young

You cant blame me, sure the killer was my son
but I didn't teach him to pull the trigger of the gun
It's the killing on his TV screen
You can't blame me, it's those images he sees

Well, You can't blame me says the media man
Well I wasn't the one that came up with the plan
and I just point my camera what the people wanna see
man it's a two way mirror and you can't blame me

You can't blame me says the singer of the song
and the maker of the movie which he based his life on
It's only entertainment and as anyone can see
it's smoke machines and make-up, man, you can't fool me"

--Jack Johnson